Hymn for the Weekend is being criticised for misusing Indian culture (BBC)

Coeurli

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Interesting article making several reflections. However I think it´d be good to point out that Hymn for the Weekend video , while honouring some Indian elements Coldplay certainly found inspiring, is not meant to be a "100% accurate tourist video" of India hehe So of course they are free to select and depict the elements they found inspiring or relevant for the video. I don't believe any of us expect indians to "play Holi all year around" just because we see it in the music video *lol*
This ohmygod!!!!!!!! Like how dumb do you think people who see that video are?! I don't see India as a whole here, and there's no rule anywhere that says that whenever you talk about a specific culture, you have to show all of it in its complexity and depth. Geez.
Also this is all another proof that people can never be satisfied. Coldplay are always considered to be almost too nice, too inoffensive ("bland" is the term that comes the most in negative reviews afterall), yet somehow here they're super rude and offensive?! It seems that the only thing certain for people is that they dislike Coldplay. The reason why they do, though, depends on whatever new stuff gets mentioned in the media. Ugh. Can't people just let them be?
 

Rickulus

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It seems that the only thing certain for people is that they dislike Coldplay. The reason why they do, though, depends on whatever new stuff gets mentioned in the media. Ugh. Can't people just let them be?
Exactly. I was reading an article about Coldplay doing the halftime show and one of the comments was literal cancer. He said "The problem Coldplay is that they don't change their style artistically" and I explained to him how they have, for better or worse changed completely. Then he completely abandoned his first argument and moved on to general Coldplay bashing.
If you don't like something for no particular reason, it's okay. Just don't make up BS reasons to act like your opinion is legitement criticism.
 

Draco

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Exactly. I was reading an article about Coldplay doing the halftime show and one of the comments was literal cancer. He said "The problem Coldplay is that they don't change their style artistically" and I explained to him how they have, for better or worse changed completely. Then he completely abandoned his first argument and moved on to general Coldplay bashing.
If you don't like something for no particular reason, it's okay. Just don't make up BS reasons to act like your opinion is legitement criticism.
As an outsider, sometimes I feel about other bands too. Whenever I listen to their stuff it can occasionally sound all the same to me (I know I haven't listened to it in depth, but still). Whether or not the styles differ depends on the ear and the brain deciphering it. All bands have their own "thang" and music is such a subjective thing. Plus in my opinion Coldplay's style changed, but maybe not to a great extent. There are many elements technical wise that have remained consistent, like the overall use of repetitive chords, those one note melodies, how the music swells and dips (there's always a certain pattern in it that I also see in other bands they have taken influence from), vague lyrical styles, dynamic changes (included in swelling and dipping), staying within certain tempos and not taking the most extreme experimental jumps, maybe with a few exceptions (which is why I like Kaleidoscope)... But not much. In my view the critic kinda has a point. Although they should have explained it further.

Sorry for the long explanation.
 

Rickulus

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As an outsider, sometimes I feel about other bands too. Whenever I listen to their stuff it can occasionally sound all the same to me (I know I haven't listened to it in depth, but still). Whether or not the styles differ depends on the ear and the brain deciphering it. All bands have their own "thang" and music is such a subjective thing. Plus in my opinion Coldplay's style changed, but maybe not to a great extent. There are many elements technical wise that have remained consistent, like the overall use of repetitive chords, those one note melodies, how the music swells and dips (there's always a certain pattern in it that I also see in other bands they have taken influence from), vague lyrical styles, dynamic changes (included in swelling and dipping), staying within certain tempos and not taking the most extreme experimental jumps, maybe with a few exceptions (which is why I like Kaleidoscope)... But not much. In my view the critic kinda has a point. Although they should have explained it further.

Sorry for the long explanation.
Yeah if he put it like you did and firmly explained his point of view, I would have taken it as actual criticizm, and you certainly do have a point. But in his case, he was certainly making up reasons on the spot. He difn't explain any of his claims. Like you said, he really should have elaborated.
 

gai

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you know, i was thinking if chris' clean water initiative in india would be affected by all these nonsense going around.. that would be a shame.
 

Jedi Leo

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you know, i was thinking if chris' clean water initiative in india would be affected by all these nonsense going around.. that would be a shame.
I don't think it will. This nonsense has been going on for a while...people are becoming desensitised to it I hope by now...
 

Cobalt

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Yada yada yada
So when I dress up in my Maiden outfit for Oktoberfest or my wear green for Saint Patrick's Day or dress up for whatever holiday I choose to to celebrate and embrace for whatever culture, this is wrong? Imitation is the highest form or flattery. We dress and emulate what we love and adore. How can this be disrespectful?
Oops!

Just recently there is a big fuss in Australian media as two white men dressed up as Aboriginals to an 'Australian icon' party.



------

I personally find the video awkward similarly as I did Rihanna having a billion arms in PoC but hold my tongue as I feel like it's not really my place to decide.
 

Jedi Leo

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Oops!

Just recently there is a big fuss in Australian media as two white men dressed up as Aboriginals to an 'Australian icon' party.



------

I personally find the video awkward similarly as I did Rihanna having a billion arms in PoC but hold my tongue as I feel like it's not really my place to decide.
As with anything if done with disrespect it should not be condoned. I can think of other examples of people "dressing up" to honour, not to ridicule. Intention is the key here...and that is really why I don't jump on the CA bandwagon, because they don't judge intention but simply skin colour or where you come from. I think we´ve had enough of that in our past, I don't need more of that in our present.

Btw I did love Rihanna in PoC with all those arms. lol I have a great respect and love for hinduism (researching religion is a passion of mine) and honestly I did not find that disrespectful, but I can see why some might find it out of place, a bit like the Jesus references in Lady Gaga music videos...
 

Suhit

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I just shared the following video on the HFTW video thread btw; I don't really know where to stand on this, because while there are unnecessary stereotypes about India in the video, I know they didn't do it out of ignorance or malice for sure. I think they just wanted something colourful because their album is colourful, and shooting there made sense.
They could've done this otherwise to do justice to India's 'reality':
Mobile Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNfiNoq_Nk8
 

Jedi Leo

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I came across this excellent article from the Observer about the problems behind "Social Justice Warriors" and why its a dead end, herein including CA as well. It pretty much sums up the points I also came across in my research.

Really a worthwhile read if you want to get a good idea of the whole picture in which CA fits in.

The Totalitarian Doctrine of Social Justice Warriors

Edit: re-posted here cuz I posted on the wrong thread previously :)
 

Cobalt

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What exactly do you mean?
You can't just wave someone's hurt away by saying that you didn't intend to, unlike what most company apologies would have you believe
 

Jedi Leo

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You can't just wave someone's hurt away by saying that you didn't intend to, unlike what most company apologies would have you believe
If someone wore a viking hat and made fun of the danish culture I´d feel spited and tell him/her to sod off! But if someone wore the viking hat to celebrate my culture cuz they think the vikings are one bunch of handsome dudes *lol* I´d be pleased and flattered about it. So yeah intention matters a whole lot in this case!
 

Draco

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You can't just wave someone's hurt away by saying that you didn't intend to, unlike what most company apologies would have you believe
Sometimes telling what the true intention was could be difficult. And not everyone is going to have the same reaction. Sensitivity levels and all. In the end, you really can't satisfy everyone in cases like this. So if the true intention was genuinely to value the culture, and some people don't like it then shit (to the creators of course).
 

Jedi Leo

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Sometimes telling what the true intention was could be difficult.
True, but there is no way I believe anyone can "see or perceive" an intention to make fun of or spite the Indian culture in the Hymn for the Weekend video...So I still believe what I said before, that these people who criticise don't even take intention into consideration, for them ALL "white /westerners" use elements of other cultures just to spite, i.e. you are preventively assuming something based on someone´s skin colour/place of birth.

The article I posted earlier has a really good analysis of this "phenomenon".
 

Draco

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True, but there is no way I believe anyone can "see or perceive" an intention to make fun of or spite the Indian culture in the Hymn for the Weekend video...So I still believe what I said before, that these people who criticise don't even take intention into consideration, for them ALL "white /westerners" use elements of other cultures just to spite, i.e. you are preventively assuming something based on someone´s skin colour/place of birth.

The article I posted earlier has a really good analysis of this "phenomenon".
I understand, but what I said wasn't really specific to Hymn for the Weekend, but in general for anything anyone does. That does sometimes seem to be the case, plenty of people seeing Westerners as spiteful, mean people when they're wearing the outfits of other cultures because of the West's history of oppression and cultural imperialism.

It seems to be getting trickier and trickier to decipher the fairly destructive trends from good ones these days.
 

Jedi Leo

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I understand, but what I said wasn't really specific to Hymn for the Weekend, but in general for anything anyone does. That does sometimes seem to be the case, plenty of people seeing Westerners as spiteful, mean people when they're wearing the outfits of other cultures because of the West's history of oppression and cultural imperialism.

It seems to be getting trickier and trickier to decipher the fairly destructive trends from good ones these days.
Yes in general I agree, but specific to CA , intention means nothing to them. It´s pretty clear once you get a bit in depth with what that movement is about...and yes I think it´s ultimately destructive, they´re taking things too far.
 

mayurshikotra

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Haha heard the best quote about all this... "The most indian thing thing about the new coldplay video, is the reaction to it!" says it all really
 

The Adversary

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I hate the song and the video but not for the claim of cultural approbation.

The British Empire committed many atrocities and oppressed Ireland for 800 years, yet if Coldplay made a music video here inspired by Irish music and culture I would be overjoyed. I don't think people would bat an eyelid. It's the fact it is India. Very silly in my opinion. The video and song should be criticized on it's lack of artistic merit.
 
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