musiclover

a surprise? :sneaky:

i agree with Rain. Don't get some idea that i'm against the war. I'm just pragmatic, and I want to be clear about the reasons for war. Don't give me some bull-crap about morals and saving lives.

awwww :kiss: :kiss: @ SI

awwwwwww @ StupidIntel. Microsoft screws us again! :angry:

:lol: :lol: go read 'why doesn't anyone support war in iraq' thread... :kiss: @ badaboum

i'd be even decently satisfied if mrcool and people of his ilk just stop using moralistic, condescending tone to justify this war, after the fact. if he was so gung-ho about tearing-down saddam, there should have been a cry rung out across america for that cause. lack of such a thing tells me that some people are out there trying to make hay out of this war to support their own narrow goals.... :angry:

Saddam taken down is good thing. but your means have to be justified. and the means were/are not fully justifiable, sorry to say. :confused: and the bad things coming out of this war: America setting a precedent for itself (and other powers) of attacking other countries without being attacked first America (and the world!) suffering the rule (most likely) of this prez for yet another term. Making a martyr of Saddam in the eyes of Islamists who are surely plotting their next violent attack against America (and in this, America would be the sole target, vs. if the war was waged by a true international coalition). America losing its friends and being called a maverick. etc. etc. of course it's good for the countries around Iraq that saddam is gone. but none of them really supported his ouster, not much in any case.

given some replies to a fool 'cuz i couldn't bear to see the idiotic writeups.

i'm tired after writing so much in that 'iraq war' thread. :dozey:

:lol:

and if mrcool wants to talk in moral terms, then the worst thing against America is that it got into bed with Saddam in the first place. And it's gotten in bed with many other whores around the world. For pety reasons of oil/diamonds/minerals/geopolitics.

Kettercat, I agree with you, in that you as an individual and innocent suffered due to saddam. I'm not saying we shouldn't have taken him down. I'm just saying that using all sorts of moralistic arguments to support this war is not only idiocy but to not point it out is a bigger stupidity, and I didn't want to be that stupid about it. I'm guessing you're in Israel. But where I background is, MILLIONS have suffered due to ill-advised American policy of backing dictators in a neighboring country. How would Americans feel if the whole world armed and egged on Fidel Castro against America? All I'm saying is, American policy of war and other foreign dealings can hardly be supported in moralistic terms. And there was a better way of dealing with Saddam. By using the international community. Just like all nations helped bring down Slobodan Milosevic in 1999. Funny thing is, if the U.S. knew where all the WMDs were, howcome we still haven't found them? If Powell can show the UN pictures of trucks apparently producing chemical weapons, we should have found those trucks by now. And howcome Saddam didn't unleash any of these weapons in his final war? even when allied armies were at his capital?

why start with a lame place? why not hit the terrorists where they hide...in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan? Iraq had NO terrorists that the government was aware of. It's a hyped-up thing to try and get some connection going between terrorists and Saddam. Fact is, Saddam was a secular dictator with no regard for Islam, while the terrorists are/were all Islamists...if they'd have ever met Saddam, they'd have first lynched him! goes to show how much (or little, rather!) you know of this world affairs. :dozey: instead just mouthing some fantastic ideas of people helping other people....what crap is that. why don't you go help people of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, if you care to help so much?

you want the whole slate of past American skulduggery removed, wiped out? Well not everyone has short memories, mister. And even discounting past American ruthlessness and disregard for human values/freedom, I gave you many other examples of the "here" and "now" where Bush could have fought a just war, with all the international support to prove it!

War in Iraq was totally unjust. A just war is fought in self-defense. Whole world was told by Bush that this was America's first offensive war. Totally unjust. Totally unwarranted. Totally un-wanted. Why can't America change things in other countries. Why did it pick Iraq? You have to think about it, for you're supporting it. You've not given one sane answer for that...instead you give us your MORALITY crap! It's full of shit to think America fights wars for others. We fight all the wars for our own tiny self-interest, nothing moral about it. Bush saw Iraq as the way of winning the next election, that's the main reason.

mr. cool. Our government (at State level) did all sorts of nasty things to Blacks and Native Americans. Would you have allowed any other country to come attack us and tell us what to do about our population? That too, under the first pretense that we were a threat to them? How about France coming over and kicking our butt for that? Doesn't make any sense, does it? U.S. was the last major 'Christian' country in the world to ban slavery or the slave trade. just for your info...

some idiot press. you just say that and get away with it? you got American presidents and you are calling them idiots? You're calling Nixon, Bush Sr., Reagan, F.D.R., and Ike (a decorated General himself) all Idiots??? I'd have any of them for Prez again than this moron that we have right now in the Oval Office. You can't run away from responsibility like that, by calling past presidents idiots or some such thing. And what great did Bush Jr. do while right under his noses, Indonesians killed East Timorese. Did Bush send his army there? What is Bush doing of Chinese killings in Tibet? Why did he pick Iraq when Pakistan or any other country is/was jucier target? And why isn't he moving against all the places I've mentioned already. The main part of Iraq war has been over for 9 months now... :dozey: he got armies to go and "free" other people... You got nothing against what people have already said about this war: fought for oil, economics, prestige (son going after dad's enemy), and politics (winning there will get Bush Jr. re-elected). meanwhile, NOBODY with sane mind has ever said that Saddam actually supported, armed, or trained any terrorists that attacked any U.S. interests, most of all the 9/11 targets. Rather, it was our "ally" Saudi Arabia that supported and nurtured 18 or 19 terrorists of 9/11. There was no role of Iraq or Saddam in that. Bush accepts it, that's why he never says anything of the terrorist connection anymore. :dozey:

Man, go away. I don't want to spend more of my time trying to wean you away from your hallucinations. You quite simply are running away from all the points I've mentioned to you. I'm not insulting you. I"m belittling your ideas, 'cause they don't stand up to any reason. Far from insulting you, I'm playing you with kid gloves. :dozey:

If I were an Iraqi, I would want the U.S. to have NEVER propped up Saddam. He was losting the war against Iran. We had our own axe to grind against Iran. So we propped him up. Just like we're propping up the dictator generals of Pakistan RIGHT NOW. Your Bush is giving away BILLIONS in arms and aid to the generals of Pakistan. A country that supported Taliban and Al Quaida, openly, until 9/11. A country that's giving nuke tech to North Korea RIGHT NOW. A country that supports terrorists attacking India. :dozey: Just like we're propping up killers in other countries too, notable Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Egypt gets second highest amount in U.S. aid (second only to Israel), when in fact it is run by a general, and where there are hardly any human rights. Go to any country in Africa and see if there are any U.S. troops trying to round up the dictators.

How about one precision-guided munition to take out all your half-baked ideas? :lol:

you didn't utter the words i quoted...i wasn't meant for you. all your comments have been not only unpenetrating but far from it. rather blunt and without any insight. something coming directly off of AM radio stations blaring out lunatic talk shows run by the Extreme Right /Conservatives of America. :dozey:

yeah, let's just kill you along with all the great armies of this world. That way, we won't have anyone using ruthless armies to kill innocents. how about that? :dozey:

hi Cathy! *waves* :cool:

you're genius, mrcool. go join the army, and do target practice, and stop annoying us here. :rolleyes:

:lol: @ hicksy!