greta22

yeah. that sounds good. before band practice though lets smoke a joint to relax after this stressful day...

yeah i think i just did the same.

lol this makes me laugh. yeah seriously, if people are seriously thinking C natural is in C# minor than you should really start back from square one and make sure you're using a better website to learn from. i've learned a lot of the internet but never that.

is anyone going to argue that C# minor scale isn't the relative minor of E major? we can all agree on that right? ok. so everyone should know that E major is: E F# G# A B C# D# Now, C# minor is the exact same scale. NO QUESTIONS. Thus A and B natural are both there. This is something I've known for years and every musician i've played with who knows theory was taught the same as well.

nahh, everyone's taught the same universal theory. especially something so generally accepted, like major and minor scales. this isnt some weird eastern scale we're talking about here. are you sure you're not getting it mixed up with the C# major scale? cause if you dont believe us... anyone can google C# minor scale and see for themselves....

seriously... the c# minor scale of COURSE has A & B naturals. where are you learning this stuff from? EDIT: didnt you ever hear of the relative minor scale? C# minor is E major's relative minor, meaning they have the same notes in their scales.

yeah, that sounds good. or we could even have an orgy... now people are going to be really freaked out when they start reading this. first page we're calling each other cunts and now it's gone to this.... thats just what coldplay does to the libido.

i wont bother arguing about the first part of your reply, because i've done that for hours already and you can see everyone i said already about that matter in previous pages. listening to the song more and more, and having to learn the chords so i could argue in this thread, makes me more "underwhelmed" by the song, to tell you the truth. i still really like it but seeing the chords being so typical took a little away from it, for me. i like the lyrics, personally. and yeah it's mastered too loudly, but that's like EVERY other song out there today.

haha yes but as the other stated, we were all refering to the natural minors here, and obviously you were too since you were referring to E major originally, so we win. maybe i just offered the sex because i like it angry? hmmmm. then the suicide cause im really masochistic. like that guy from INXS but worse.

lol ok this thread has now gotten ridiculous, we've all become senile, i'm taking a break to go work on some music myself.

yeah dr ross, if you find a c natural in the C# minor scale then i will fuck you and proceed to blow my brains out, just for you. by the way, i forgot to mention i'm a chick mwahaha! who would have thought people could misinterpret "greta22"....

I'm waiting here in anticipation to see how dr ross explains to us novices how a C natural fits into a C# minor scale....

Holy shit dude, what are you talking about. C#minor scale IS the relative minor of the E major scale. why the hell would you assume this is the E major scale when the FIRST chord he plays in the song is C#minor? i labeled it the "Aug 4th" because the it's A major with the 5th flatted. You can still say diminished 5th but that could be interpreted as flatting the 3rd as well, and in this case, that's obviously not correct. it's impossible arguing with you, you don't know what you're talking about. you learned the C# major scale from aliens, as seen below .... but in regards to this above post. Guess what, it's ok for me to say the minor third. i cant believe you argued with me earlier saying i had elementary education in music when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. when they first created minor chords, it was interpreted as "flatting the third" which is what i just explained to you. now i simply explained, in order to get to the add 9th, you double flat the note. you can also add the 9th an octave above (Both are correct) but the thing i was saying was not wrong, either. Are you kidding me here? You wrote this: C# D# E# F# G# A# B# C#.... You're telling me that's the major C# scale? It's this: C# D#, F, F#, G#, A#, C

hmmm what are you talking about? im guessing you were just joking about the C# major scale you listed right? havent you ever heard of a minor third before? jesus. whenenver you have ANY major chord, and you FLAT the third (and saying "flatted" IS correct) then you have a minor third. i'm assuming you already know all this.... so are we really going to argue about something as trivial as that? i wasnt talking about what key we were in, i know we're in the key of C#minor, but all I was saying was that they flatted the third (F, originally) to get to the C#minor chord. then double flatted again to do to the D# note, or the 9th.... I'm not saying you were wrong you just tried to say that I was saying an F was in the song, which i didnt mean. to tell you the truth, he's not really in a particular key at all, because right after he goes to the C#min add 9th, then to Amajor then to A aug 4th...so he goes in and out the key,.

Uhmm yeah, well if you actually knew music theory, then you should know "flatted" is a real term. So thanks on the terminology compliment. See that C# minor chord? Guess how they made up that chord. They FLATTED the third. (Which was originally the F, see how that came in there?). WOW! You now have a minor triad, or a flatted third. Get it yet? And guess how they then made up the C#min add 9th chord. YES -- THEY DOUBLE FLATTED THE THIRD!!! AHHHHHHHH!!!! My brain is going to explode from all this.

it's definitely a great song, love the rocking to it. have to admit, the distorted guitar is a bit too much for me. the reason ive always preferred coldplay is because their music sounds kinda atmospheric and well -- cold! haha. im assuming thats why they liked their band name. but yeah....it's definitely grown on me, and i like it even more than when i first heard it. but i think overall it's not going to have a super long shelf life - it's too short, not really any huge chorus (just a break), and admittedly not as "avant garde" as i was expecting. to tell you the truth it reminds me too much of a muse song - especially johnny's solo ... like "supermassive black hole" or something. which is ok, cause i love muse, but i never really considered their sound all that different. however it's a good first single and i'm sure the album will be amazing.

the E couldn't possibly make the song sound anymore minor, yet somehow the D# wouldnt. lastly, i never said chris or eno were idiots, they just made a poor judgement. you can call it great artistic choice, but if someone forgets to add the extra teaspoons of sugar to a recipe, i'm gonna say it's a mistake, flat out. not, "oooo that cook - he's so clever!" it's really not a big deal, whether or not it was intended. i'm just debating for debating sake... people take it so personally, like i'm throwing their baby into the water. i mean, dont get me wrong, i love music as much as the next guy but calling someone a cunt just because i 'm saying i think he's singing the wrong note is a bit much. (not referring to you, obviously) and if the note was intended, then during the 2nd verse he would do it again, it sounds like he tries to go up but ends up being stuck on the C# note. he was ad-libbing, most likely, and made the mistake of picking the D#, exactly because it's in the scale. it's close enough that it sounds half ok, and because his hand is up so the chord isnt going against it at that exact moment. if he was playing 8ths i doubt he would have sung the d#, it would have sounded too obviously off

First off, mate, before you start calling me a cunt because of some of the things you thought I was criticizing, you should read a little further down. Like I explained a few posts up, the priest line was just something I pointed out, merely pointing out somewhat sarcastically I might add.... I also clearly explained, a few times, that the D# was in the key of C#m but that in my opinion it wasn't an intentional choice because of the obviously pronounced E note within the chord. I said it was off key, but I explained later on that I only stated it in that way so people not into music theory could have a somewhat better description as to what I was trying to describe, since trying to talk about music theory completely randomly to someone can be a bit tedious. I apologize that I didn't say it properly the first time but you can clearly see in multiple posts afterwards I was talking about the fact that even though D# is the 2nd note in the C#m scale, he is singing it OVER an E note. E notes, as in, you know, those really prominent powerful notes . Remember, the 3rd note in this chord is flatted (F), you don't sing a double flatted version of the 3rd, like he does here. It's an obvious flaw in the song, get over it. If you are all so experienced in songwriting and theory like you claim, then how come you're so fucking horrible at realizing that singing half a key below one the main notes of the triad is a horrible choice? Please tell me. I Don't mean people don't do it because it's so avant garde and unique, i meant no one does it because it's totally musically illogical and sounds sloppy. If he, for some reason, was singing half a note off on the rest of the chords, then I could see the strange intention behind it...but considering the rest of the song is a typical song format, with no out-of-bounds type of crazy chord changes, and the ENTIRE melody stays within a typical standard pattern, why the hell would I assume that suddenly, completely out of left field, he would decide to sing the 9th over a 3rd?

First, yes I know Chris uses add 9th chords a lot, as well as maj7th chords (another favorite)... thats why I consider him a great songwriter. However, the C#minor add 9 chord you're talking about... that's the 2nd chord he plays. It goes in this order: C#minor Was a long and dark december, from the roof tops C#minor add 9 I remember He doesn't get to the add 9 chord, which contains the D#, until the "Remember" part, which is after the part we were debating about....you can clearly hear he's only play C# minor during the part I was discussing.

ok i'm an off to lunch so i have to miss out on anymore great bashing here but finally to respond back to anyone i missed i have to add: - despite everyone's responses, which i appreciate, positive or otherwise, i still HIGHLY doubt he did the d# on purpose. everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so if you like it, that's great. the first thing i said in this thread is that i LOVE this song. i'm not trying to bash it. i was just pointing out the fact though, that the bad choice of the d#, in my opinion, deters from the song from making it even better than it already is. i also dont see why most people are assuming they kept it their deliberately because him and eno and everyone else are all musical geniuses trying to break the conforms of the music barrier. i chose the more logical idea: he just song the note by mistake and no one noticed. it's not a big deal, we all do it, myself included. we dont have to cry over it. i was simply just saying i find it funny that even a producer like eno, being in the business as long as he has, probably didnt notice it. - another reason i highly doubt he sang d# on purpose: the rest of the song is typical of a c# minor format and he never goes out of key in some sort of strange way. if the rest of the song is so forumlaic, why would he suddenly decide to make the (poor) choice of singing half a note flat from what you would sing there? ok, so everyone can continue to call me a music snob and i'll continue to defend my opinion...even though it is like trying to argue with a german on how to speak the english language. unless you know what i'm talking about, everyone's arguements are going to be the same: music has no forumla and it's all about being an "Artist". and yes, i get that. trust me, if anyone gets it, i do. i listen to everything from weird yoko-ono art rock to debussy to coldplay to electronica. i almost ALWAYS write my songs in alternate tunings because i hate standard. i love love love coldplay and if anyone ever tries to call their songwriting "boring" then i always defend them. also, to the person who said the d# doesnt even sound bad over the C#...well of course sololy it doesnt sound bad, because it's still part of a key...but play a C# minor chord on the piano (C#-E-G#) and trust me, you'll sing the E. you probably wont even be able to sing the D# without listening to it by itself at first and then having to practice it over the C# minor chord, it sounds so unnatural. the reason it sounds a bit better on the track is because he happens to be pulling up his fingers when he sings the note and it's not entirely on top of one another

i brought up the "priests" line just because i noticed it. i didnt mean that i disliked it. i said it sorta sarcastically anyway (which is why i said they "pasted it a hair too early in pro tools") but i since everyone got their panties in such a bunch that i sacriligiously said something that wasn't bow-down adoration over "violet hill" i couldn't explain myself further ... just as you think it's snobby i analyze the music, i think it's snobby that you automatically think i'm trying to make some sort of mockery out of the song or music in general. or i'm just being an tightass who doesn't like fresh music. like yeah, just because i study music, that i cant appreciate the uniqueness or randomness of music because of the fact it's been drilled in me too much to have order. ORDER ORDER ORDER!!! PRAISE MOZART, INDIE SUCKS!!. GEE, haven't heard that stereotype before! people always think like that because they've learned from all the other pretentious indie mags and blogs that people who really learn music are boring, and the bands who get their demo hyped up on stereogum a few months later not knowing how the hell to carry a tune are geniuses. that's the reason why i've always loved coldplay. they write great songs for the sake of songwriting. they're the least pretentious musicians in the business, in my opinion. the reason i brought up the whole arguement was simply just to make a point as to how its funny that people, even in a BILLION DOLLAR industry, still make mistakes in the music biz. i wasn't saying it to defame coldplay or their god-like greatness, so you can all pull your panties out of your wedgies a little bit more now.

i want to state that, yes, of course i know how there are scales that have D# in them ... actually to make it simpler to understand i stated that he was going out of key by going to the D# which i shouldn't say, because really, it's not like D# is some anomaly out of that key. that's not incorrect. however, without making my original post a paragraph longer, i described in that sense so more people without musical training could understand what i was trying to say. so basically, to sum it all up, though i of course cant read their minds as to how the wrote the vocal, i'm just simply saying, as a singer myself...it's very easy to sing a bad note like that and not notice it, unless maybe you write out your entire vocal pattern note-by-note, which not a lot of people bother to do (unless maybe you're a classical singer). if for some reason they decided to throw in that D# note in there on top of a C# minor chord, which has a very prominent and strong E in there, it was in my opinion bad judgement, because all that does is create an obvious clash. i highly doubt it was deliberate. you can argue that that's what keeps the song sounding "real" by singing wrong notes but that's like saying you love the people who get kicked off american idol. are people really going to try and deny that? whether anyone knows music theory or you don't, there's still a forumla behind it. just like whether or not you know how to speak french... those people in france are really saying something, it's not just jibberish. also, yes, dissonance is a very real and powerful thing. i love dissonance. the difference between dissonance though, is when you slide inbetween the wrong note to the right one, or you play a note that's out of the key but still not clashing... this isn't really in the same context as what i was trying to bring up.

yeah i thought that too, i figured this probably was done maybe in a couple of takes and they wanted to capture that freshness to it without having to do a million vocal re-do's.... what i simply meant by bringing it up is that i wouldnt be surprised if eno simply just didnt notice it! i have no idea on his background besides the fact he started the "ambient" genre and then became a big producer, so he might have had a lot of music school and i have no idea, so correct me if i'm wrong... but what i'm saying is, rather than people assuming i'm trying to bash the uniqueness of the song, i'm simply saying, hey, if i were coldplay and i was shelling out a lot of money for a producer, couldn't he at least notice when i'm singing the wrong notes? like... isn't that his job? don't get me wrong, maybe they did it intentionally, maybe eno did notice it. but if he wasn't classically trained in music, like a lot of producers aren't these days, i wouldn't be surprised if he just didnt notice it because he was singing only half a step off.

if you don't know anything about music theory then please dont try to argue with me like you do. i wasnt trying to post a flaming thread here. i realize EVERYTHING you're saying about something being raw and original and not completely perfect or in key all the time. HOWEVER.... if you don't think that music is a mathematical forumla to a certain extent then you're simply wrong. sure, people with absolutely no musical knowledge can create absolutely amazing songs because they have good ears and they don't have any idea what it means, theory wise. it's like mixing colors together randomly and creating a beautiful painting. however, if you're going to argue with me that mixing together blue and yellow doesn't always give you green, then you're being naive. what im trying to say is that despite people not knowing theory, there are REAL PHYSICAL LAWS of music, just like there is with math. and sometimes, people do it incorrectly. so listen again: the note chris sings, the D# i was talking about, is a CLASHING NOTE. as it is OFF KEY, INCORRECT, NOT INTENTIONAL.

yeah but the point i was trying to make was that he wasn't going out of the key to try to be edgy or unpredictable. yes, a lot of times you go out of the key to create a less predictable song. coldplay does it all the time and that's why i love them - they're my favorite songwriters of today. however, in this verse, the chords don't go out of the key - but at the one part of the melody, his voice does. incorrectly. it would be like a bass player playing the wrong root note by half a step - it's not being out of key, it's OFF key.