The politics of the 2008 Olympics...

[TraceOddity]

I realize there's already a thread for the games, but I started this one for people who may not be so supportive since I didn't want to go storming a thread for people who are looking forward to the games, so please don't merge them for the sake of the ones that will enjoy the Olympics.

 

Having said that, what do you all think about China getting the games? Let me make it clear that I'm not prejudiced against the Chinese people whatsoever, and I don't want to insult our Chinese members. It's the government I take issue with. With a human right record like theirs, and the whole Tibet issue, I personally support a boycott. I know how much it means to our athletes, but I'd say the Tibetan people have paid a much higher cost.

 

It's just an opinion, and I hope this thread doesn't cause anger, just discussion.:)

[Pseudonym]

I hope China gets humiliated worldwide for their evil ways (Tibet, Darfur). I am very mad at the Chinese government right now. They forced people from their homes to build these new stadiums. They refuse to do anything about the genocide in Darfur, in fact theyre aiding in it.

 

While I'm all for Olympic unity, I really hope China gets completely embarrassed in front of the whole word by protesters. If I had the money Id got there myself and protest, even if it landed me in jail!!

[delsino]

ok ok ......i won't

 

First ,let's talk about Tibet!!!!

 

Do you think Tibetan are living in fire of repression????

 

 

 

Slavery and Serfdom in Tibet, historical evidence

Here is some list of books that show evidence of Serfdom and Slavery in Tibet.

 

One article can be read here http://rwor.org/a/firstvol/tibet/tibet1.htm

Might contain bias read at your own discretion.

 

Anna Louise Strong

She was in Tibet during 1950s, she wrote a book "When Serfs Stood Up"

On page 270 She was interviewing a local serf after Chinese government took over and the serf said

 

"In the past you didn't dare wash your face, for the overseer would think you were showing off, but now you wash your face several times a day. You even wash your hair and your dirty shirts. You sing out loud in the fields without worry. If you sang in the fields formerly, the boss would say: ' You'll attract the hail from the heaven. Will you take the responsibility for that"' But now you sing as much and as loud as you like. We put new words to the old songs. We even have dramas and dances at the rest period in the fields."

 

 

Hisotrian Michael Parenti in his article Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html wrote

 

"In old Tibet there were small numbers of farmers who subsisted as a kind of free peasantry, and perhaps an additional 10,000 people who composed the “middle-class” families of merchants, shopkeepers, and small traders. Thousands of others were beggars. There also were slaves, usually domestic servants, who owned nothing. Their offspring were born into slavery. 15 The majority of the rural population were serfs. Treated little better than slaves, the serfs went without schooling or medical care, They were under a lifetime bond to work the lord's land--or the monastery’s land--without pay, to repair the lord's houses, transport his crops, and collect his firewood. They were also expected to provide carrying animals and transportation on demand. Their masters told them what crops to grow and what animals to raise. They could not get married without the consent of their lord or lama. And they might easily be separated from their families should their owners lease them out to work in a distant location."

 

Sir Charles Bell, a British colonial officer, also a renowned Tibet Scholar and a personal friend of the 13th Dalai Lama wrote book Tibet: Past & present , on page 79:

 

"Slaves are sometimes stolen, when small children, from their parents. Or the father or morther being too poor to suppor their child would sell it to a man, who paid them "sho-ring," "price of mothers' milk," brought up the child and kept it or sold it as a slave ..."

"Two slaves I saw ... had been stolen from their parents when five years old, and sold in Lhasa for about seven pounds each."

"The slavery in the Chumpi valley was of a very mild type. If a slave was not well treated, it was easy for him to escape into Sikkim and British India."

 

 

Israel Epstein interviewed many local Tibetan during his travel to Tibet in the 1960s, described his book Tibet Transformed: in some worse cases serfs had to hand over children to the manor as household slaves or nangzan, because they were too poor to keep them alive.

 

There are many more books I can list, but I will leave it right here. There is the common perception for the western is Tibet was a heavenly land, and the Communist Government invaded it. Keep in mind there are 2 sides of every story.(By Foxhunt99)

[TraceOddity]

Of course there are always 2 sides...I live in North America where we all like to think we're 'civilized' and that our governments are fighting on the side of God,lol. And of course, the whole world knows that's not the case, but the human rights record is a matter of fact, not opinion.

 

For Expo '67, Vancouver, BC, Canada's government also tore down buildings where welfare and pensioners lived to make way for the World's Fair. I'm not saying it's just China...I'd have started this thread no matter who was hosting the games, but since China is so controversial, opinions may be stronger than usual.

 

As a semi-practicing Buddhist, I symapathise with Tibet's plight, but no country is perfect.

 

It's ironic that wars used to stop for the Olympics, and now they cause so much hostility. Sad, really.

 

Anyway, this is exactly why I started the thread...for dialogue, so keep it going!:)

[delsino]

Comparing with Dalai Lama and CCP ,Which one repress Tibetan???

 

The fact you don't know------------

 

Almost every Tibetan put Mao's portrait beside Buddha's!!!!!

 

Why ??? Because Mao free them from fire of feudalism repression.......

 

like Western had done.For Mao,they can face the New Sky,breath the fresh air of Freedom!!!!

 

then Westerm Did what???????? Let them sleep beside sheepfold???????

 

Think it! Please!!!!

 

 

 

then you must wondering why you see so many Lamas Protest CCP

 

because some foreign goverments support them,support Dalai Lama,giving them money,even arms.......

 

why ????

 

i think you know

 

i hate say this,but it's true------Some foreign goverments (you must know Which countries)

 

wanna strike our Economy.......slowing our step to developing

 

and they support them money,let them SHOWiING！！！！

 

i wondering can you heard the Voice of ordinary Tibetan????

 

NOT ONLY THE MONK!

 

BUT THE ORDINARY TIBETAN!!!!!!!!!!

 

Then you can visit Tibet.......if you want

 

 

 

 

 

I read you last post,i think no one can get the truth but stay far away from what you seeing

 

so i'd like to talk with you,may be you are not really know China. and our politics

 

my grandma is Buddhist,and in fact Buddhist play a important role in Chinese History,but in anyway,i don't think all the lamas are sincere.Comparing with Han- Buddhist,they are not do what they should do

[TraceOddity]

The fresh air of freedom is pretty polluted these day,lol. (and that's a joke, not an insult). America needs to do more about Climate Change, but there's no question that countries like China and India do as well.

 

As for the voice of the average Tibetan, I have friends who were born in the region...not monks, just people like you and I. And they want sovereignty like you or do for our countries. If all you do is believe media hype, nobody will see the whole picture, and I don't feel the way I do because CNN says I should. I feel that way because I know real people who are a part of the cause.

 

And then there's Darfur, and again, they're not peaceful and innocent any more than any other country is, but the conflict there will never be resolved as long as they're being armed from the outside, and as long as oil comes before human life!

[delsino]

sympathize you used a good word i also love and sympathize my Tibetan friends,so i don't like Dalai Lama ,Supporting our Goverment

[delsino]

The fresh air of freedom is pretty polluted these day (a good joke)

 

Darfur, you know i never been there,i really don't know what's their thought,may be you also have freind in there can tell me something about there:)

 

i think i should learn more about Darfur,i think i 'd like to talk with you about this issue...

 

 

but i think this is a complex issue,we may both don't know the true see you

[Pseudonym]

The fresh air of freedom is pretty polluted these day (a good joke)

 

Darfur, you know i never been there,i really don't know what's their thought,may be you also have freind in there can tell me something about there:)

 

i think i should learn more about Darfur,i think i 'd like to talk with you about this issue...

 

 

but i think this is a complex issue,we may both don't know the true see you

If you want t learn a lot about Darfur quickly watch this short series:

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darfur/

 

It helps you to know the truth

[delsino]

i had seen the site.

 

i think, a country won't do anything if they can't get Benefits

 

but i don't know what Benefits can CCP get more through Darfur.

 

If have,that's oil...... i have a crazy thought,why U.S so Care about Darfur? FOR THE OIL.!Energy!?(I don't know) Of cause China needs Oil,but we never start wars (Iraq,and....Iran?) We never try to set arms into those places......if Nato get into Darfur,i don't think they can help work out the problem......

 

 

China never starting a war,never intervention any state,and deal with problems through U.N,

i think the Darfur issue just because of Resources

 

U.S may have 2 aspects to shame China.

1. Controlling Darfur,and the oil,new found Resources

 

2. Pressuring China Goverment,4 the Initiative of Negotiations with China in (such as Trade,economy politics......)

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/print/200704/darfur-climate

 

you may had visit this website,but i think you can see again

......it support a new way to think about Darfur,politics just a gun,but benefits control it.the "gun" may aim at the shadow of the Fact,but the really aim,we don't know~!