bjaiken

HERE WE GO!

Thanks a lot for posting this. I had not read it. I am sure I will change my mind a million times as this plays out. Right now, I do not feel that he is lying or money hungry. My opinion is simply that he feels robbed (whether he is right or wrong). Coldplay obviously feels differently. I look forward to more information coming out.

That is a good point. I can't argue with that...and I am the guy in your cartoon. But still...:D

I could not agree more. THAT is why I haven chosen to post on this topic alone. Look, I don't care about what outfits Coldplay wear during their tour. It just isn't important to me. But I see this issue as big. I think Coldplay is the most important band in the world right now, and Satriani is extremely well respected by critics and the music industry alike. This is going to be a clash of the titans if it is not settled quickly. And in the end, I see the biggest loser as MUSIC. As much as I like Coldplay, my musical tastes transcend this band. In my opinion, we are setting up a situation whereby bands will not build upon influences for fear of legal repercussions. This is not good IMO!

Perhaps my timing is poor. But defending the band AT ANY COST is INEXCUSABLE when you are not privy to all the facts. I am playing devil's advocate because there are two sides to every story. I am not against anyone having their opinion, but the hatred directed towards Joe Satriani is unacceptable and I DON'T EVEN LIKE HIS MUSIC. The comments that "Satriani fans" have made are no less venomous than the responses yielded by Coldplay fans. They love Satriani just the same as you and I love Coldplay. I have not said one negative thing about Coldplay (just raised possible points), and look at what has happened here. I have seen Coldplay in concert 7X, have met every single band member on multiple occasions, have every CD that has been put out (including a lot of the rarities), but people here have jumped to the conclusion that I am a non-fan because I see that THERE IS A POSSIBILITY that Coldplay lifted a section of his music. People have jumped to conclusions about me in the name of protecting the band. What else have people jumped to conclusions about in the name of blind faith? Just wait until the band makes a statement, and we start to get more facts. Yes, group think and blind faith do make me sick, and I think that people who display these characteristics need to check themselves.

Last post by me was uncalled for...I apologize. NOT because I am looking to make friends but because it was rude. I am only trying to make objective points in an environment where objective thought seems to have flown away.

I am not looking for friends, I am looking to debate serious points. That is more important to me than the HUGS and KOOL-AID that you seem to want.

I will cede to you that the Talk argument shows a history of crediting other artists IF, and only if, you will agree that Chris Martin has gone on record numerous times as claiming that Coldplay openly takes from other bands (which, besides the Talk example, go unaccredited). Again, we are talking about the blurry line between inspiration and plagiarism. Even if Chris was joking, his lines about plagiarism will come up if this goes to trial. THAT is how the court system works.

Wow! So let's dissect this sentence. 1. You know exactly what Joe Satriani's motives are. 2. I can only post on this forum if I have something NICE to say about Coldplay. 3. And no one in this forum detects enough similarity to even entertain the possibility that it was lifted. COLPLAY GROUP THINK ON DISPLAY!!! By the way, I don't care whether you think I am a fan or not. You don't know me.

It would be impossible for you to agree or disagree with me. I openly admit that I do not know whether the section is Satriani influenced or a pure coincidence. SAYS WHO. At this point in time I think Coldplay has a lot more explaining to do than Satriani. After all, his song came out first. Coming to your conclusion, and filing in the blanks as you see appropriate, does make you guilty of "Coldplay Group Think." Just because Satriani is asking for financial compensation, a common means of remuneration in intellectual property cases, does not make his motives suspect. That is what YOU would do. YOU are NOT Joe Satriani! Look at it from his point of view. Perhaps he hates Viva la Vida and does not want his name name connected to it in any way. For example, Coldplay may not want Lil Wayne to steal the piano section of Speed of Sound and place it in one of his songs. Then again, maybe they do. But just giving someone formal recognition when you feel like your music has been used without your permission is not going to always constitute an appropriate remedy. This is especially true if you are offended by the way and manner in which it is being used. Why can't you see that point?

I can't answer that...my name is not Joe Satriani. Perhaps Satriani did ask for credit and is so fed up with Coldplay that he wants to hurt them financially (yes, all the proceeds from Viva la Vida is still a lot of money even for Coldplay). Perhaps he does not like the song Viva la Vida and does not want royalties to the song but, instead, wants damages for the fact that it was even put out. Would you want your name on, or credit for, a piece of work that you feel another artist stole from you? Again, the answer is I don't know, but at least I am trying to see the other side. That is rude. You should not make comments that have overtones suggesting that I have no interest in the band outside this case. You don't know what my history is with this band, and I don't feel compelled to reveal it at this time. You should welcome outside voices to pull you out of your "Coldplay Group Think." I passionately love Coldplay, but I am an independent thinker and try to see the other side. You should too...

Please tell me how you KNOW Satriani did not ask for credit in any pre-law suit conversation with Coldplay.

This is getting to the point of comical. Unlike most polls, this one has a correct answer: I DON'T KNOW. Look, I love Coldplay and could care less about Satriani. But it is a joke that people are indicating that they KNOW whether Coldplay sampled Satriani's song. YOU DON'T KNOW JACK! Do you follow Chris Martin around 24 hours per day? Do you know what he listens to on his ipod? The answer is a clear and unequivocal NO! You THINK you know what happened because you follow the band closely. You THINK you know they would not steal because they asked permission for "Talk." The truth is that you do not KNOW what they did, and simply because they asked for permission in the past does not mean that it is done EVERY SINGLE TIME. All I am saying is that you are free to your OPINION, but stop stating it like it is an indisputable FACT. The band has not even commented on this yet (post lawsuit). For crying out loud, be an objective, critical thinker instead of a mindless puppet. There is enough of a similarity where we need to hear from the parties involved. Until that happens, stop acting like the judge, jury, and executioner.

Oh, it's perfectly within Satriani's right to sue. But what he can do legally and what is in good form are two completely different debates.

I think this assessment is pretty strong. Except I don't think the two songs are similar. I think a section of a Satriani song is similar to part of a Chris Martin vocal melody. And I don't think that distinction is arguing semantics.

This is not a strong argument. Since you don't know what happened behind "closed doors," you can not speculate with any level of certainty. Only two parties know: Coldplay and Joe Satriani. Until we are told otherwise, your accusations are unfair.

Exactly...on both sides.

I agree, but we don't know what has gone on behind the scenes. Perhaps Satriani asked for recognition or partial royalties and Coldplay told him F/U (maybe due to the fact that they don't think that they were influenced at all by his music). This is why I wish Coldplay would make a strong public declaration on the issue. When matters like this come before the court, it is not uncommon to ask for financial compensation, and a lot of it, for damages incurred. Another true point. But while those who dislike Coldplay are going to use this as ammunition, I don't see any positives to it for those of us who like Coldplay (besides possible re-affirmation of loyalty to the band, I guess). Therefore, I still think it is publicity that is nothing but bad for Coldplay.

*** Sigh *** Alright, I do not know Joe Satriani's music, however, I follow music closely enough to know that he is very well respected as an extremely influential and talented guitarist. The issue is not whether or not you like his music or think he is skilled. The former is a matter of opinion while the later does not seem to be in dispute by those qualified to evaluate (which does not include me). The point is that, and I think I have seen it mentioned before, this is a PR nightmare for Coldplay. They are being drug through the mud whether they are guilty of plagiarism or not. Plus, I do not see what Satriani has to gain: he does not need the money (I am sure he lives comfortably), he is already critically acclaimed, and he is taking a beating from fans of a very popular band, Coldplay, for having brought suit. It just seems like a situation where nobody wins regardless of the outcome. What is the point? I get the protection of intellectual property part of the argument, but even if Coldplay did steal this section (I admit that I do not know; I can't read Chris Martin's mind like it seems that a lot of you can), the worst they are guilty of is snatching a 5 second snippet. Again, this is the worst case scenario. Is all of this worth it?

This needs to get settled quickly. If you can not detect a similarity, at least in that one section (you all know what I am talking about by now), you are deaf. First, Chris Martin specifically (he writes the lyrics and this is a vocal melody that is in question) needs to be honest about whether it is a coincidence or a conscious effort that a section of Viva la Vida sounds like the Satriani song. If it is not a coincidence, Coldplay should have asked the man if they could sample his music and paid him accordingly. Now that it is after the fact, they may be court ordered to pay Satriani adequate compensation. With that said, I think we are walking a fine line between "inspiration" and "plagiarism." I do not want these issues ending up in court because it will be never ending. I can turn on the radio and find a million examples of artists who have copied (or stole from) other artists. Are we going to sue every one of them? I read a quote by Tom Petty where he said he could sue several artists (I think he referenced The Strokes) for plagiarism, however, would not do it unless he felt that the artist was directly stealing. Clearly, Viva la Vida is a completely different song than the Satriani tune. I wish Satriani would just leave it at that. Also, I think taking legal action days after the Grammy nominations is as low as you can go. For the future, Coldplay needs to operate on the honor system (if, in fact, it is intentional), and Satriani needs to do something besides tying up the courts.