colduser

#1. Where were you and what were you doing when you first heard about the 9/11 attacks?actually at the dentist office. #2.What were some of your first thoughts and questions?-I was freaked out. Had no idea what was going on. Very confused. #3.How did you spend the next few hours and afternoon?-School was cancelled for the afternoon. I worked for the newspaper part-time and was called in to help with coverage. #4.In what ways did your emotions change as the day progressed?_ It was very surreal. Everyone hugged. People were just stunned shocked. I will never forget it. Strange. #5.Did you know anyone who was personally associated with 9/11? If so, in what way?No #6. There were a number of governmental responses to the attacks and other terrorist activities ( The Patriot Act , wars in Afghanistan and Iraq , the new Department of Homeland Security , increased security at the boarders and ports of entry , and enhanced intelligence , community , etc.)Please comment on your opinion of the government's responses and what more if anything should be doing today to prevent further attacks. I felt as though the war in afghanistan was justified. I have always been against the patriot act and the war in iraq. I felt as though the bush administration used 9/11 to advance their own agenda. __________________

Bat for lashes was great. Love Daniel and Travelling Woman!

My biggest issue with anarchy is the assumption that people will be nice to each other. How can there be such certainty in its ability to do good. Perhaps if the anarchist system began with the understanding to look out for your fellow man/woman at all costs then perhaps.

Obama is not holding a gun to my head Jay. Paul has said hurtful things about homosexuals. I highly doubt he would support gay equality.

Nick this is probably the best debate we had. You response was well thought out and well put. I would only suggest that although you make a valid observation about the economics of the 1920's, I believe the hands off approach allowed for the greedy to get richer and the poor got poorer. I know this is not popular at all but I really do believe that if people work hard, they should be paid a real living wage. Any job, no matter what it is should afford people the ability to truly live well. I don't think that the weak should have to perish. Everyone needs help from time-to-time. Your comments about China make a lot of sense. For now we are dependent upon on another. If that dynamic changes, we are screwed. You definitely made me smile with your response to the Bush DEA bullshit and your social liberalism. Right on man. I really can't get offended by someone who is open-minded in terms of social policy. I do believe we have more in common politically than I thought. You have a great night too Nick:) What are you getting your degree in? Edit* As for ron paul, what I have read leaves a lot to be desired. His anti-gay rhetoric is enough for me to never consider him a viable political candidate.

ron paul is a homophobic dick

Nick, good response. I understand your issue with Obama's spending and I do admit it is a dangerous road to travel. You are definitely more versed in the game of economics so I will give you that. My only opinion would be that most post-industrial economies of the world are struggling right now. China and India will take over as true economic super powers. We are in a different time and a different dynamic seems to be running our governmental policies. There is no option for a 21st century new deal. What would you do if you were in Obama's position? I am willing to wait and see where his economic policies lead us. At least in the short term, the economy seems to be in a tenuous stabalization. As for the war in Afghanistan etc. I believe that we should try to figure out where bin ladin is. I do not think it is a moral war but I am not upset about being there. Iraq is another story. As for Pakistan, they have nukes and trust me, Obama will not fuck with them. the salon article was enlightening and disappointing. I still do not think that Obama will, in any way, approach the absurdity of Bush's civil liberty destruction but we shall see. We always stick our noses in latin american affairs usually with miserable results. I do not agree in us being down there. As I said before, I am a social issues voter. Notice how Obama is not going after the pot legalization in Oakland. Bush had a field day expanding DEA activity in California. I believe that more of my needs will be met under Obama. You know what my favorite kind of conservative is? the fiscal conservatives. They vote on the president who will give them the most money back. I respect that. I am a social issues voter and proud to be. I still believe that Obama is a more sensitive, compassionate,empathetic president than Bush. That is my opinion of course.

Nick, look, I am sorry that I lost my cool with you in earlier debates and in this thread. I now see why I get so frustrated. First of all, I do know about the issues discussed in here. It is not fair of you to say I don't. Much of what you say is true. some may not be. From now on, I will debate with you as I do with my family members who align themselves politically the way you do. We have spirited debate but don't lose our cool. I will try not to disrespect you in the future and I hope that you will do the same. Now let's get down to business. First off, you say that Obama is increasing military spending. Not so according to this and many articles like it. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123595811964905929.html As for his record spending. You are right. It is rediculous. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't. I think it is worth a try as much of his spending is meant to have an effect many months to years from now. Give it time is all. Increasing the military. He is cutting the amount of troops in Iraq. Many articles on this and increasing them in Afghanistan which is fine by me as we are trying to get rid of Bin ladin. I have no problem fighting terrorism there. Obama's support of the Patriot bill and the Fisa legislation is disappointing and he has rightfully taken some heat for that. My point to you is that I don't see how he is worse than Bush. You point out his spending too much money fine. That is more than bush. But he is not starting new wars as Bush did. He is not trying to bring about more environmental destruction as bush did. He is not trying to pass an amendment against gay marriage as bush did. He is not trying to deny americans of their civil rights as bush did. Did you see that Ashcroft is allowed to get sued for the techniques he used after 9/11. Bush was just fine with Ashcroft. I am a very liberal person almost bordering on socialist. I like big government when it strives to help people. Healthcare/welfare/. I don't like it when it seeks to strip people of their rights(patriot act/drug laws etc. I believe that poor people should receive help from the government. I believe in affirmative action. I believe in equality for gays and lessbians to get married. Bush was against much of what I stand for and although Obama does not support all that I believe, he met enough of my likes to get my vote. Obama is trying to save face in the world now. Bush tried to destroy that. Obama does seek to work with the world to make it a better place. Is he perfect no. Is he somewhat hypocritical in sending troops to SA, yes. Obama can't be all things to all people. I just feel like there is a double standard that exists with his presidency. It's as though he is fucked no matter what he does. In ending, Nick, you are a good guy. I do know politics and so do you. Maybe we will be able to see more eye to eye as we discuss further

Obama wanted to do that too. That is why he kept Gates and tried to put some repubs in his cabinet.

Josh, what is there to defend at this juncture. My point is that it is too early to judge. That's all. Nick comes across as an elitist when he debates sometimes. I believe I have used the "high-horse' comment twice. Too much i guess.

you start it, I'll join it;)

Clinton wanted to do the same health care intiatives. Clinton was a great president but hit the jackpot of the dotcom boom so no one cared that much because people were rolling in cash.

Wow. that would be awful.

Nick, condescend all you want. I know what a neocon is. Get off your high horse. I post in here because the vomit you spew all day about Obama makes me sick. When the doomsday scenarios come true, I'll give you some props. Until then, I'll post in here and try to take on your superior political intellect:whatever:

she definitely has a medical issue then. This lady at my job did but she got help for it.

I really don' t care to discuss Obama's job performance. He has not done much yet really. I think he needs a little more than 8 months and what he "plans" to do to truly judge him yet. I still feel better with him in office than Bush or McCain. Call it naivite if you want Nick. People like you and most neocons/libertarians are on a witch hunt nitpicking every single thing he does and using talking points and scare tactics to freak everyone out. I can almost guarantee that if McCain had won and done similar actions you would not have posted half the threads you did.

Great point. I was going to write something similar. You have got to tell her. It is better than her being incredibly embarrassed and socially isolated later on. Just be honest. Much better for you, much better for her.

Thanks but no thanks: http://www.conspiracyscience.com/articles/alex-jones/the-obama-deception/ Debunks this whole movie.

Got to run out. :heart: you Camille:kiss:

I missed you tons:kiss: I recently got back on the board somewhat regularly. How often you check in here?

Nick, opinions do matter my friend. I have an opinion. Camille has an opinion. They are not wrong or right. They are right to us. So be it. I may not have a degree in Economics and I do not pretend to know much about it. I know what is right and what is wrong. Obama is not a bad person. I am glad that he is in office. I am hopeful for the change he could bring to the country. If that keeps me going every day so be it. You have no idea what it was like to live for 8 years of your life under a president who wanted to pass a const. amendment to make me a second class citizen. You get very arrogant towards people when they disagree with you. Camille and I are one of the few who do. You have a whole fucking glee club at your disposal. Cut us a little slack for fuck sake.

Nick, I've got to log off in 5 minutes. Let's please let it go bro. We are never going to see eye to eye on Obama. Let it be, Let it be, Let it be, Let it be...................................

A quote from Ron Paul. "Homosexuals," it said, "not to speak of the rest of society, were far better off when social pressure forced them to hide their activities." Me thinks you missed the mark there Nick.

Hey Nick, guess what. I said I vote based on SOCIAL ISSUES. I could scour the internet and read some great articles to back up my point-of-view and then post them here and call them facts. Your facts about Obama's spending are true. Ok. I'l give you that. But please get off your high fucking horse when it comes to the economy being worse off. We are slowly but surely trying to build back up. That cannot be denied. You are talking about people guessing where the economy is going to go. No one really knows what's going to happen. THAT'S the fact jack. Chill out and stop condescending me. I tried to call a truce and you hit me with your most recent message.

Obama has never said that he supports gay marriage. He couldn't because this repressed country would not have voted him in then. However, he does support civil unions and if the opportunity presented itself he would support gay marriage too. Oh yeah, Ron Paul is a homophobic dick so I do not like him.