the_gloaming09

what does that even mean :|

I agree. I think that from an initial standpoint it was perhaps good to have it create some order and also be used to explain things that were unknown at the time, but now it seems to have gotten in the way. I agree with this. I find it extremely annoying how it's made out to be a point that being religious is some sort of qualification to being in politics. For example it is usually brought up as to how "god or religion would help you deal with situations while in office". Honestly it shouldn't play a part. Believe it or not depending on the degree of their religiousness would sway me to not vote for them (ex. Mike Huckabee)

he actually asks people on the forums to send him anything that looks interesting or intriguing.... but even so he does have a lot of time to put it all together.

God is Not Great-Christopher Hitchens

^you make very good and convincing points Reilly. Of course I wouldn't know it as well as you, but I understood the whole conflict with Britain and Ireland to be because of religious groups, but I guess there was more to it. Perhaps the main cause of of a lot of conflicts in history wasn't mainly religion but over territory. But even so persecution because of religion is still a big problem that has lasted for a while whether from the issues between India and Pakistan, or the Middle East countries. Yes many wars don't have to do with religion but territory, but at the same time you could also be said that the currently conflict against Israel is solely for land, when if they were an Islamic nation, it wouldn't be much of a issue. Still you had various witch trials that persecuted people for not following a certain religion, or believing what they were practicing was witchcraft. Also with the conquest and colonization of the Americas you had the travelers trying to convert the natives to Catholicism. Why can't you just let people believe what they want to believe, and not try to change their minds? I'm not saying I don't have respect for any religious people. In fact quite the contrary. I think you can believe whatever you want to, 1 god, a million, or none... I don't care. I do care when it's pushed into my face or considered to be facts when there's no real proof. There's also a sense of sexual repression within religion too. I mean it's a natural bodily function, so why should you make people believe what they are doing is wrong, when in fact it's natural? It's like I've never understood how people could be priests, knowing they were to live an entire celibate life. Why should that make a difference and why restrict or control yourself from something you as a human is supposed to do as all other animals? For the bible and Qu'ran there are obviously sections that are up for interpretation, but at the same time there are bits that talk of things that are very specifically against rights for a wide range of people, like in the Qu'ran telling husbands they can beat their wives if they're out of line. So it is bad because if as you said (and I agree) that it was supposed to be a set of moral guidelines, then you are basically telling people that it's okay to beat your wife or that women's equality rights and same sex couples are not right as well as it being okay to own slaves. Lastly it shows how human sacrifice in the name of god is okay. If people go to these books for a moral compass how is it doing any good if it preaches ridiculous things like that? I do think that at the time religion may have been good to sort of try and guide people in the right direction of morals, but from my perspective in today's age I think it's meaningless for morals. Of course I have a bit of a bias coming from a liberal state where religion is not emphasized as being such an important thing, and where equality is usually tried to be achieved. Perhaps it's just from living where I do that I feel that people are more than capable outside of those books to make their own decisions and know right from wrong. As I mentioned my family isn't religious but I think I have a really good idea of knowing right from wrong and it has nothing to do from those books but from my parents and also my own personal experiences. I guess also part of me feels that with some stories being so ridiculous I don't see how people can follow it blindly. Perhaps take them as fabels or stories, much like how mother goose stories are meant to have a moral at the end. Overall I do feel a lot of it has to do with our natural fear of death, and hopes that we live on.

I think what Greg is trying to get at is that fact that you cannot simply put your mistakes or "sins" on to someone elses shoulders. You have to take responsibility for your actions, and not just essentially place it onto someone else. is that right greg?

That is true, but it seems that in general women are particularly persecuted. I think as you mentioned that his overall message was meant to be good, but I find the stories about him in the bible to be more about having a meaning of one of the short stories at the end much like a childrens book. At the same time I don't think it's because of him that we are moral. As humans we naturally know right from wrong mostly because of how we are raised by our parents. I mean for example I had a friend who would always take advantage of sleeping over friends houses and pretty much living there. Personally I think it's wrong to impose like that but if it wasn't for the shitty parenting of his parents I think he'd be better off. I think basically we learn from our parents experience in their lives and they try to teach us.

That is true. But also there are parts in it that speak negatively about women too.

I agree. I think that too many people have been suppressed in many ways but a lot of it being sexually. It seems like it's always been taboo to bring it up, though it's just a natural human function. I see a lot of it is just a way to control people and tell them you have to live by these exact rules or else you'll burn forever. It's completely insane, and if that's the case then I'd say pretty much everyone is going to burn, because I seriously doubt that publically people would admit to doing many of these things that are considered evil. I do feel sorry because it's also like the witch trials, you had people hanged because they didn't believe in god or a religion. Same goes with the huge conflict between the protestants and catholics in Ireland too. All over what they interpret a book written by man to be. I do though agree regardless there are good as well as bad people in the world regardless of religion. I also agree. Even things that are scientifically proven are not believed by people because it was written in a book. Or even more hilarious is that the church will change their mind. If there came a message from an all divine power like God, don't you think there wouldn't be a reason to change? At least the church is willing to say they were wrong and take hold of scientific advancements, though at not as such a huge rate as perhaps they should.

I agree... though I feel a lot of things within scriptures are harmful (for example the treatment of women, slaves, homosexuals, non-following people).

I'd argue that people might treat each other better without it. Especially if there isn't say any afterlife, people might take life more seriously and treat their fellow neighbor better. I think though you are partially right in that humans typically act wicked towards each other, but I believe that strong convictions towards religion don't help the situation much.

I know what you mean Crests... it's more about conflicts over belief differences Con-Religion: Personally I feel that it does mostly harm but some good. It's mostly because of beliefs that we have so many conflicts (especially the middle east, and Israel) because of sacred lands or monuments, based on stories written by man. So many millions throughout history have been killed not only from conflicts but human sacrifices. I mean you had religions like the aztecs that would kill people in fear that the sun wouldn't rise. Now you have radical islamics that want to kill people unless they convert. I also see it being a bad thing because it makes people completely ignorant and prejudiced towards other people. For example womens rights are taken away in religions like Islam women are required to cover almost all of their body, and also it is illegal to kill a woman that's a virgin, so if a woman who is a virgin commits a crime (may be as stupid as not wearing a veil or being with your husband) she can't be killed so she is raped then killed. It's also ignorant in terms of rights for same-sex couples. Yes the scripture makes it a taboo thing, but from a humane level is it really so wrong for people of the same gender to get married? What harm does it honestly do? You have priests preaching this, yet behind the scenes they are molesting and raping children... they should be put in jail but of course they aren't because they are a "man of god"... as to whatever the hell that means. Also the ignorance towards science and facts. I mean to teach children about creationism, that the world was 6,000 years old and that there was a talking snake... from a rational perspective does it make any sense? It's almost like stating that mother goose rhymes are fact and humpty dumpty was a real living egg that had the misfortune of falling. A lot of the stories are just ridiculous stories, and I don't see how people can take them seriously. but people want to teach these things as facts. Plus evolution (though it has some holes) is the most rational explanation towards our existence and creation. Pro-Religion I think that religion can be good for certain people in the sense that it is a comforting thing to have in times of dispair. It's something that people can use to lean on to. Especially when there's the loss of a loved one it's good to believe in religion or a God because you want to hope that that person is in a better place and is no longer in any pain, and lastly that you hope you might be able to see them someday. Religion was also good because at the time when things could not be explained (diseases, natural disasters, astrology, weather) that they turned to god being the source. I think also for unfortunate people who did not have good parents or a good childhood it is something good because it gives an overall basis for trying to get people to do the right thing. I think most importantly the writings of these religions are good because they are good stories that are supposed to have a good moral of the story at the end. ....sorry for the long post

I really liked all those songs! I'll have to check them out

^haha that's funny (on "You're using logic to explain something that not's logical) That's what I don't like about religious people is that they push their beliefs on others thinking that they're right. Why not just allow people to believe what they want to believe and don't persecute them for it?

I want to get your guys opinions on the topic and if you think it does more good or harm for the world.

Yeah it's terrible. I mean I think also they probably don't understand that being a housewife and taking care of kids is a fulltime job in itself (knowing this having a mom who stays at home).

It's extremely pathetic. They hate on people just because they are different and don't follow their religion, yet they believe in things like talking snakes, and walking on water, and a world that's 6,000 years old. It's this form of ignorance to the world and fellow people that I can't stand the most. edit: but what is the most hypocritical about it all is that lets say they are right that god created everyone. then why would he create people to be hated and murdered and raped? From a logical standpoint so much just makes no sense.

That's really terrible. He shouldn't treat her like that, it's not right. When my sister hears of how my uncle treats my aunt she often wants to call him out on it and tell him he's a douche... I wouldn't mind that...haha Also what's even more ridiculous is that he seems to think that he holds more power or whatever, yet he is not even close to as successful as she or doesn't make nearly as much money as she does.

but the funny thing about that is that their beliefs make it seem that they are moral because of their religion, which is totally ridiculous. I'm not religious but I'd consider myself a very moral person. It's not because of religion but because of how my parents raised me. but I do agree. You can believe in whatever you want, I don't care. But when it turns to violence and forcing beliefs on people and also being completely ignorant to facts and science (aka. evolution), then that's when I have a problem.

Well I often joke around with my sister frequently telling her that like for example if I'm helping cleaning up after a family party, that she should be doing it by herself since that's what she was born to do. Of course she knows I'm only joking and often laughs at how ridiculous that sounds. It is hard to believe that people actually believe that shit. I mean I feel sorry for my Aunt because she is expected to give my Uncle his food first, and often I'm told he responds by getting his food with a grunt, no thank you or anything. Maybe from being from a liberal state and town that I'm more aware to giving people rights, but just in general the thought process is pretty simple. Why not give them equal rights? It's probably just because certain men are afraid of women becoming more successful then them (which many are). Same goes with the presidental election. Many people bashed Hilary and went after her. For me I really don't care who the president is so long as I think they can do a good job. I could care less if they were male or female.

I'm really glad that The King's Speech and Colin Firth won. I saw the movie yesterday before the Oscars and it was one of the best movies I've seen in a long time. It's a shame that Geoffrey Rush and Helena Bonham Carter lost

Yeah... I think it's terrible that schools always cut programs from the arts. It's not right.

Anyone who wants to restricts rights towards women should be ashamed of themselves

I agree... bashing women and taking away their rights is not right and not fair. I mean when you think about it of course there are differences but we are pretty similar overall... why is it in so many cases that the differences of people have to be focused on under a microscope? Abortion isn't wrong. I don't think that it should be used as a for of birth control in the sense that a couple will be lazy to use protection and just have an abortion instead. In terms of rape cases women should no question get a choice being that it wasn't their choice to be raped in the first place. Their body... their choice.

that is true, but don't people at least want to have some selfrespect and respect towards others? true, but it also has to go back to religious fanaticism following rules that are 2,000 years old and at this point in time insignificant or unimportant. I mean in the bible women were treated poorly, and any kind of abortion of birth control is frowned upon. I bet if these books had more womens rights these issues wouldn't even be a problem.