the_gloaming09

:awesome: but... they might think I'm a UFO, and try to shoot me down :| I think I might just try to invent the transporter they have in star trek

:lol: crap... I'm really behind schedule. Maybe I should take my bike. but... big problem... I only have a passport to go to North America and only by foot/car/train :|

:lol: oops... I forgot about walking there. I got so tied up with other stuff. I guess at this point in time I'm going to have to run or sprint :P :lol:

^Thanks for listening!

You as everyone else has made great points against it. The more that you guys discuss it and bring it up the more I am against it. However I still feel in some circumstances it may need to be used. I'm just saying say if you caught like Bin Laden's #2 and he was withholding critical information no matter how much you tried to talk to him reasonably. I'm not saying it should be constantly used. I just feel in some cases it might have to be used. I mean if say you had a child and they were kidnapped, wouldn't you do whatever it took to ensure their safety? Well that's the point I'm trying to make. I think that so much background information has to be run on the person, and they have to be nearly positive that what they're doing is to a person they know has what they need. Like i've mentioned so many times before I think that the decision making that goes into doing something like this needs to be the similar frame of mind as of that of going to war in that all other options have been exhausted

:awesome: :jealous:

Yeah... I see what you mean. When it's a matter of time things need to be I guess expedited. I do agree that bonding or talking or manipulating the person you're interrogating is a better way about doing things. That's an interesting point and unfortunately the way things are. Just because of how someone looks automatically makes them suspicious. I mean I hate to say it but we've all done it especially after 9/11. Does it make it right? No. The thing is that in general people should I guess be suspicious overall and not to just a specific race. I mean I remember seeing on the news a few times of people planning on doing terrorist attacks and if you looked at them they weren't your stereotypical looking terrorist (not to sound like an ass by saying that), but just a regular Caucasian male that for all you know could've been your next door neighbor. It's just like WWII or even the Cold War when people were judged for stereotypes on how they looked. I don't know. I mean the thing is that from an initial standpoint I think it would be better because physical torture seems just worse. However you don't really know the long term effects. I mean for example there are many soldiers that perhaps had very few injuries or none at all, but suffer red from shell shock or other psychological issues for a few years or even decades. Unfortunately as you said it would probably be abused. That's why I feel when it comes to the well being or another human being that the research should be done before hand on the persons background at least. It is really difficult because there can always be issues. This topic wouldn't even exist if humanity put their differences aside and tried to actually get along :lol:

at the end I'll reveal who everyones list was and how many votes they got

I would be more for the use of this as opposed to torture, though of course as you said they are not 100% effective.

yeah... If you can keep it in as best condition as possible because I read that Stanley made the boxset so it will degrade over time

I guess for me I was more for the isolated case because in that scenario the selection of people is limited down to a very few amount, so in that case the chance for error is narrowed. With Bin Laden, there are so many people that might or might not have legit info so the area for error is greatly reduced. The point you bring up is an interesting point in that there are so many isolated cases, or blurry/sketchy info that it makes it difficult to judge when it is justified (if that's even the right word). I guess in some sense it seems to be an issue of all or nothing, because how can you really define the line where it becomes acceptable? If that's the case then I'd be against torture completely. But like I said, I think it is something that only in the most extreme cases should be considered, much like how I brought up how war should be the last option. I can understand that and it would make sense to be freaked out about it. I mean the state is there to protect you so I guess if you lose that protection than how can you really feel any trust or security. But yeah I mean I think it's a difficult topic or issue to resolve. I mean as you mentioned if it was say your child that was being held hostage or something I'm sure you'd do whatever was possible to get him/her back. But at the same time peoples own rights have to be taken into consideration. What about the topics that I brought up? What are your thoughts on them, in the sense of inventing a legitimate "truth-serum" or the use of psychoactive drugs or sleep deprivation or some other non-physical option?

^It does make it tough. I mean to be honest I've known about that place, but reading more about it now and seeing pictures makes me disgusted and ashamed not only to what was done but the fact that you have those soldiers smiling and having photos taken of themselves as though they're on holiday. Also the fact that it was not just a few cases but so many makes it even worse. As you brought it up and also looking at these images and reading, it really I guess gives more insight to it, but also I guess helps to disprove that this country isn't fully sophisticated by doing things like that. I think that if there is an acceptable form to use, then perhaps invent some sort of truth-serum or use some kind of psychoactive drugs or induce sleep deprivation or something. I don't really know. The whole physical violence and degradation of human dignity is not something I'm really for especially in terms of that Abu Ghraib. At the same time Gautama brought up an interesting story and a topic I wanted to bring up. I mean in that scenario the police knew that that guy kidnapped the child and knew of the whereabouts. However he was so sick and twisted that he refused to talk and tell. Now I'm not trying to fully justify the use of torture, like I said if anything it should only be used in most extreme scenarios (though of course then again it makes it difficult to judge what is extreme). But if the person withholding information is a cruel son of a bitch who has no remorse whatsoever then doesn't it make it I guess a little more acceptable? I've been trying to find the right words for that paragraph above but it's tough. I'm not trying to make it sound like I'm all for torture (like I said only extreme cases), but I guess if anything I'd feel it to be easier or better to do it to someone who is cruel or ruthless, rather than a potential innocent person. I hope you guys get an idea of what I mean or am trying to get at. The one question I guess I just have to ask people that are 100% against it, is what do you do if you have hit a roadblock for information? Or do you think that there could be any form of "advanced interrogation" that might be somewhat acceptable that doesn't degrade human life as such in Abu Gharib?

Shame on you lexus, you should be buying EVERYTHING the band ever has or will ever release. I don't think I can consider you a true fan of the band ever again. :| :lol:

Yes. :|

haha alright... maybe I'll do a cover in a little bit.

:lol: I actually didn't do a cover of either song, though I know how to play Supercollider on piano

yeah... I'm not really counting the people that didn't log in because how do i know it wasn't the person who made the list is just voting for theirs. If that's the case then C is still leading B, 7-to-5

Thanks! :D Yeah vocals have always been a struggle, but this time around when recording I'm going to try to get them as best as I can, even if that means doing like 50 takes...haha Also the sound quality was done on a pocket point and shoot camera so the quality isn't too good. Glad you like those two! Winter's Chill I already recorded and put on my EP so unfortunately I won't be going back to that song. Lost Within...haha. Do you play any instruments?

I've never really understood that phrase to love your enemies. Seems like one of the dumbest phrases ever.

would you have changed it?

haha... that's funny. I guess it's a good thing I didn't tell you about my cover of Super Massive Blackhole... i mean umm... Supercollider

musically it is

^I saw that before

Thanks a lot! :D I really appreciate you taking the time to listen! Any suggestions on things that could improve with the songs? Also of the songs was there one that you enjoyed the most?

that is true. The government wouldn't want to show it's faults. haha alright... done. Yeah. I mean overall I don't think it's something that should be done on a regular basis. There should be other ways of obtaining information. But I think when there are points in time that there is an imminent threat, I feel it should at least be considered. However I think that there has to be no doubts that the person being interrogated is innocent.