Gautama

What about Bradley Manning? Weren't the initial conditions of incarcerating him already crossing lines of how to legally treat an American citizen?

The amalgamation of ecological destruction, unethical economics, ignorant or apathic masses, racism, misogyny but also misandry, homophobia, administrations profusely connected to mafias, sarcasm and douchebaggery on the internet (= immaturity of our species), denial of scientific facts, utterly meaningless religious fundamentalism, respectless distribution of resources, genocides (e.g, Tibetans), growing rates of depression and consumption of psychotropic drugs, generations of paedophile priests and teachers getting away with it, and and and, it's something I've been working against for very long (there goes my frustration and chut, maybe you understand that now). But it doesn't help unless a majority of this world's people rise and say no. I'm very positive that the so called OWS movement is the start of exactly that, linked to that are ANONYMOUS who've been doing great things beyond hierarchies and vanity for much longer, those guys are brilliant. Google what they are planning to do in Mexico, they are real heroes of our times. I got to meet some of them in Frankfurt, wonderful, wonderful spirit so far. People are meeting all over the world now since October 15th (not much coverage in the mainstream media yet) and they discuss all this with each other. They talk and hope and think that they will find sustainable solutions for all that primitive shit we've all created. They think that focussing on that and putting our minds together and talking about our irritations and insecurities, that slowly, organically, something will come up, something prolly very new yet simple. As I've mentioned somewhere here , the practices to find a consensus from a greater lot of individuals, atm called general assemblies, are a key part of that. We need a massive paradigm shift inside our heads and collectively so for that to happen. I strongly believe, that when we get spring in the northern hemisphere, that this is going to become very very big. And then we can altogether really change the world. And I mean that, exactly as it stands there. So I'll do my best to keep it rolling, as does Cobalt, as does Chuck with his enlightening posts and as does Nancy with tirelesslessly posting news about the mess, as do many more. Had hoped to spark some sort of enthusiasm for the idea of trying to change the global and local perversions, because it needs more people! That's all. Since there's so much silence from the rest of the board, I take it that the invocations really aren't appreciated much. :disappointed::D Yep, it took me another round to get it. I really am sorry, if it's so annoying, my bad. I seem to create resistance rather than sympathy for the cause, me fool. The way Nancy and Chuck try to raise awareness is less confrontative and thus far more talented. I'll go on doing the things that I'm talented at. I've seen too many people here mentioning how they are depressed, that plain horror of a life, which I've suffered from myself far too long, is inseperably linked to the crazy lies we are swallowing every day. With our ethics changing to sustainability and true fun and care, many people can stop the self-desructive hopelessness, stop having to eat pills in order to cope with their lives. The women of Afghanistan can stop burning themselves which many do as the only means to get free from the woman-hating primitive culture they were born in. We can altogether think of how to cope with overpopulation. Ha, many women in the third world would be happy to NOT bear ANY child, if they would get asked. Tibetans and many other refugees can go home to their countries and start healing the wounds which all our ignorance has brought upon them. We can put up administrations, run by ourselves, which favour and encourage sustainability and empathy rather than greed. We still need to deal with sickness and death and criminal minds. But we might find solutions. That's what we are discussing in those camps. How can anyone make fun of that. How can you call this attention-seeking, when I try to tell you about all that. @Reilly, maybe you read this wiki-site, it's about a manipulative technique, which you (unconsciously, I'm sure) started using in the tea-party-thread. It's called 'gaslighting', and...hm... I'm not playing such games, that's why I decided to step out of that conversation. I honestly, though apparently too lowbrow for you, tried to solve our misunderstandings, but you reacted with sheer mild gaslighting again and again. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting A tad wittier and smarter than McSquared, but it's still the same unintelligent bullshit. I'm far too tired of that to get examples from your posts, because I only expect further gaslighting and denial of it being what it is. I expect you to now mention how I was a coward to not give examples. But now that I mentioned that, I expect you to tell me again how arrogant I am to assume such things and blahblahblah. That truly is a bit too dumb for me. From my point of view this makes you what you guys call being a tool for the current system, championing apathy and the mocking of idealsists (whom in my book are the realists, btw). Since you are actually a caring and helpful person a lot here, which I always liked about you (and have mentioned that in #Tea Party), I still don't fully get what went wrong. I still am sorry for my part in this, which you keep ignoring. I wonder, if the rising of people being fed up gets very massive next spring or even this winter, what position you guys will take then. :sneaky: I totes get it, that you will have a tiny blast about how senseless my efforts (and the others', who leave you alone?!) am when it won't happen. OH SUCH THE SHAME! :P

wow, just wow. Police beating up utterly peaceful student protesters from Berkeley. This is what the eviction of Emma/Cobalt's camp in Melbourne looked like. Very very bad. I've seen that OccupyMelbourne is suing their police/administration for that illegal assault. That's great, will take ages though, probably. Krugman says printing more paper money is being a solution? I liked how he linked to an article which stressed the factor of the conservatives' crazy beliefs being responsible for a very big part of all this economic and ethical mess. That's what it looked like to me for quite a while. Though I know that things are never that black and white, but overall, yeah, I think their pharisaic ignorance is responsible for a lot of plain bad. What helped them was the apathy of those who don't share their perceptions of things. But that has obviously changed now, which is great!

"World headed for irreversible climate change in five years, IEA (International Energy Agency) warns If fossil fuel infrastructure is not rapidly changed, the world will 'lose for ever' the chance to avoid dangerous climate change" http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/nov/09/fossil-fuel-infrastructure-climate-change Thanks to everybody who thinks shit can go on like this for ever. This is very much linked to the Occupying movement btw. Think for yourselves. I cannot explain, beause if people seriously still don't see the connection between our Wests's consumption terror and all this. It's driving me crazy, that ignorance. Crazy. Get active now, please. Goddamn... Beautiful, don|t you think. Our planet, ourselves, all those plants and scents, and sounds and animals and the great technologies we've invented, etc.etc. Doesn't that mean anything to you? YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT (not for what was done in the past, but in regard of how to clean up this mess! START TAKING CARE NOW! WAKE UUUUUUUP, for God's sake. What information else do you need, Jesus Christ? Go join your Occupying movement and help finding new ways of conduct among ourselves and in regard of all that's there on this planet. Because that'S what they are doing there, trying to do, hoping to achieve. But it needs much more of us, much much more. Go demonstrate! If we are more and more, we might have a chance of changing things, you know. Regardless of our religious beliefs and sexual orientation and nationalities and and and. It might still be possible. What's your fucking problem, guys. What's your fucking problem. Apathy? Is that an excuse any longer, with the occupying movement? Nope, I'm sorry, it's not. IT'S NOT.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/07/financial-big-lies/

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/07/financial-big-lies/

Q+A With Noam Chomsky at Occupy Boston Q: What about the ruling class in America? How likely is it that they’ll have an open fascist system here? Chomsky: I think it’s very unlikely frankly. They don’t have the force. About a century ago, in the freest countries in the world, Britain and the United Sates at the time, the dominant classes came to understand that they can’t control the population by force any longer. Too much freedom had been won by struggles like these, and they realized it. It’s discussed in their literature. They recognize that they’re going to have to shift their tactics to control of attitudes and beliefs instead of just the cudgel. It can’t do what it used to do. You have to control attitudes and beliefs. In fact that’s when the public relations industry began. It began in the United States and England. The free countries where you had to control beliefs and attitudes, to induce consumerism, to induce passivity, apathy and distraction. It’s a barrier, but it’s a lot easier to overcome than torture and the Gestapo. I don’t think the circumstances are any longer there to institute anything like what we call fascism. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The one thing, that I don't support within the occupy-movement is, that I still don't think that there was/is some conspirational plan of a few to supress the masses. They do, that is clear, but not entirely intentional. I know that, because I know people from the so called 1%. Of course there are some sarcastic, sociopathic assholes, who really don't care about anything at all but their own little family, and sadly they don't get isolated by the others, because, you know, hardly anyone within those circles is aware of what they are doing, about the consequences. And the height of your income is far more important than ethics, whoohoo, they will make fun of you when you mention ethics, they will tell you to grow up already, to the real world. Uhm, ok. This is what they will have to be told now, as nice as possible, that they have to grow up already. But the same goes out to the 99%, imo. We buy all that shit, we spend our time watching bad tv shows or doing silly things on the internet. We do work under sociopaths and don't voice up, because we need the money, for our kids, for food and a home, and our pensions and healthcare. We bought into the angst of failing in society, which is very real, but only as long as everybody buys into it. The only chance we ever had is waking up from that, and say no. That's what is happening now. And this one really could bring it all down. One example for doing something in your every day life: When any of you wonder, what you could do, wherever you are, please stop buying chinese products. And spread the word. That is also very important. We consumers would have such immense political power, if only we would work together. Now China, I guess I don't have to tell anyone what the chinese government is capable of doing. If you don't actually support their efforts to supress human rights, you could start not buying their stuff. Or would you have bought german products during WW II, knowing of how they murdered 6 mio. people factory-style? Why do we buy chinese stuff then. That's why us 99% aren't so innocent in all our mess, the not wanting to see the interdependence of consuming, environmental and human exploitation. I'm not gonna destroy your day by mentioning what they do to people ( their own rebels, the Uighurs, the Tibetans, who alone need all our support so much in this) in China. But understand, that those peoples' days are destroyed so mercilessly also because we don't want see it and help them. But it's happening anyway, the very moment you are reading this. And you can find out for yourselves, if you care. Or ask me for sites, to get information on Tibet. Think about it, please. Please educate yourselves about other peoples' realities. It IS linked to our lives. If more of us would care and would want to help, then help might actually become possible. We are all responsible. Not for what was done in the past, but what we do about it, and how we build our future.

“[F]or the first time, people around the world are not identifying and organising themselves along national or religious lines, but rather in terms of a global consciousness and demands for a peaceful life, a sustainable future, economic justice and basic democracy. Their enemy is a global “corporatocracy”(and our old, passive selves, imo) that has purchased governments and legislatures, created its own armed enforcers, engaged in systemic economic fraud, and plundered treasuries and ecosystems.” — Naomi Wolf ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://takethesquare.net/2011/07/31/quick-guide-on-group-dynamics-in-peoples-assemblies/ This is how you hold 'general assemblies'. They are the actual heart of all what is referred to as Occupy Wall Street/Melbourne/London/whatevver/together/thePlanet. It's a way to act out direct democracy. It can be adjusted to the respective communities'/group's needs. In families, schools, soccer clubs, villages, cities, countries, planets. It's in progress. If you don't like what you see in the news about your local occupy group, start to take responsibility for yourself and put your ideas into the process. It can be exhausting (because you'll learn a lot about how tangled up in conspiracy theories many people are, for example), but it's exhausting for something highly constructive. I suppose Emma/Cobalt could share some experiences about how this works in practise. Kudos to the Spanish People for developing this procedure this spring! A tool to find maximum consensus, based on common sense of a collective of individuals. It's very fascinating, it's just a starter set, it'll get easier with time.

doppelpost

Omg, Saffire, not that again. That's so foolish and dangerous. High time you study non violent resistance. "True non-violence is mightier than the mightiest violence." Mahatma Ghandi Think about it, thoroughly, man. This is simply the truth. It sure takes a lot of nerves at times, but it is utterly awesome and the maturest form of protest. Less casualties, it creates a more sustainable peace....

Yes, I know what they are there for. Is that a fact though, that they use agents provocateurs? It's getting rather tense in the US, Mike/theGloaming saw that coming two weeks ago. edit: I asked wiki, seems to be a fact.

Ows Oakland got violently evicted too. Peaceful protesters again, shot at with rubber bullets. Here's some footage of it. I watched it, trying to be unbiased. The last seconds are incredible. Police shoot something slightly explosive it seems into a crowd of people trying to help a person on the ground. This is very wrong. edit: Police said demonstrators had started throwing objects at them. This is when us peaceful protesters got in serious trouble with armored water cannon trucks, because some rascals threw stuff at them. I could never blame the police in such situations. This of course would put it all in another light. Hope truth can be found out.

^ It's all so blatantly primitive, non? Time for some Gandhi, the Occupy movement is starting to face real trouble, which starts phase three. This could take long and get very nasty. Please, please not. I hope the protesters succeed in staying peaceful at all costs. “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”

So it is possible... this needs to be spread, so police elsewhere feels safer to do the same. The police in Albany, New York defied order of Gov. Cuomo to arrest their local occupiers. Whooo. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/24/new-york-cops-defy-order-to-arrest-hundreds-of-occupy-protesters/ http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Under-pressure-to-make-arrests-police-and-2232934.php#ixzz1bhYjL6xj Quote: With protesters acting peacefully, local and state police agreed that low level arrests could cause a riot, so they decided instead to defy Cuomo and Jennings. “We don’t have those resources, and these people were not causing trouble,” a state official said. “The bottom line is the police know policing, not the governor and not the mayor.”

Then I'm honestly sorry, Crests! :( What you'd written looks like you made fun of your demonstrators, though.

^ Are you insinuating that the people freezing their asses off are idiots, too? Haha, funny, when people who demonstrate for a fair world freeze, haha. Uhm, but you are a fan of Jesus, aren't you? What's wrong with you guys. You are actually driving me insane. Is the world you live in so great? Is what we have the best we can do? You watch this man, he's called Chris Hedges, he doesn't wear dreadlocks, nor Ralph Lauren shirts, (if it's those outer things, which hold you back from listening to the content) he's been covering a lot of recent world history as a war-correspondent, which you can learn when watching this clip. I'm still reading these threads, because what's happening at the moment bears a lot of potential for me, no matter if it will change anything in the end or not. Even a twelve year old can understand that this isn't something to lolz about. But keep lolzing, lolzing is so much better than trying to change the world. Watch this seriously. And stop making fools of yourselves, kids. You mustn't support this, but being sarcastic about it is obscenely immature. Imho.

edit: I had posted a link to a life stream to the Occupy whatever city movements in the US, but after watching it for a lengthy period decided to take that down again. The streams themeselves were OK, but in between is melodramatic, almost violent filth, which doesn't help the cause at all.

Oh yes Chuck, thanks a lot! =) And thanks to you Nancy, have a good life, will ya!! I'm adding some of the many links to different sites involved in this movement, so everybody can inform themselves. It's now important to keep this running, so everybody, read about it, follow what's happening. Talk about it with others, attend an event or maybe even join a camp, as Cobalt has. Help formulate demands. Think about our planet, what is wrong, what needs to be changed, what you could do locally to make it better. AMERICA: Argentina:http://www.facebook.com/occupyargentina Mexico: ? Brazil: http://www.facebook.com/OccupyBrazil Uruguay:? Chile:http://twitter.com/#!/inwpress/status/125486612481196032/photo/1 Venezuela:? :( Canada:http://www.facebook.com/OccupyCanada?sk=info USA: http://occupywallst.org http://occupyaustin.org/resources (Austin, Texas) http://occupydenver.org/ http://occupychi.org/ (Chicago) ...check for one near you.... http://twitter.com/#!/Occupy_USA AFRICA: generally: South Africa:http://www.facebook.com/OccupySouthAfrica ASIA: Malaysia: http://www.meetup.com/occupytogether/Kuala-Lumpur-MY/389152/ India:? China: there was something in HongKong, but hardly in the motherland itself Turkey: http://www.meetup.com/occupytogether/Istanbul-TR/388992/?a=bn5_l1 etc.pp. OCEANIA: New Zealand: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Wellington-Nz/253279161382607 Australia: http://occupymelbourne.org/ http://www.occupysydney.org/ http://occupyperth.org/2011/10/15th-october-action/ check out for all those tiny islands nobody has ever heard of... EUROPE: Poland: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Poland/244792178900666 Portugal: http://portuguese-american-journal.com/occupy-portuguese-join-the-movement-portugal/ Turkey again: http://www.meetup.com/occupytogether/Istanbul-TR/388992/?a=bn5_l1 Great Britain: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Britain/182871245120997 http://occupylondon.org.uk/?p=40 France: http://www.facebook.com/OccupyFrance Estonia: http://www.facebook.com/pages/OCCUPY-tAlLiNn-estonia/272640526090060 Ireland: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Ireland/184536254958131 Italy: http://occupyitaly.tumblr.com/ peaceful... Spain: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Spain/258039744238521 Germany: http://occupyreichstag.blogsport.de/ http://www.occupyfrankfurt.de/doku.php ...and again...check the web for your country and the city near you. This shouldn't stop. It needs to spread further. Let's shake our planet a bit and make it, what it ought to be. :wideeyed: So, this was it now. I'm off to contribute to the German section of the think tanks, and help get the different countries' movements connected. You guys could go on post your ideas, plans, wishes in this thread. Chuck has started that, you could be the next. Do it! Ciao.

^ Thank you Nancy! It's not weakness, that there are no alternatives yet, though. Quite the contrary, that's the special appeal, and has been from the start of OWS. Solutions are work in progress and everybody on this planet should contribute. In thought, in prayer of whatever kind, with music, with poems, theories, each in a way he or she can. This was a good day. I loved most of what I've seen, I talked with many many people. There is a deep wish for change, for sustainability, for maturing. People from all sorts of backgrounds, which was enjoyable. Some people had a very negative, aggressive tone (they would totally kill the 1 %, yelled 'you fucking assholes' up to the tower of the european central bank, in front of which the gathering took place) But luckily, they were a small minority, and most people listened politely (you didn't wanna make them even more angry), but moved on stressing that there now would have to be a forum, where people start to work on solutions. There are about 30 or so campers now in the little park, right underneath the ECB, they start this work now, are linked to the internet, and well, they camp and talk and write and discuss. I talked to a handful of them, and they were of the utterly nice and positive sort. The vast majority agreed that this grassroots-movement needs to get more followers, and shouldn't stop until this world REALLY has become much much fairer, more enjoyable, safe and just. Saffire: Global here means 'Think Global, Act Local'. That's OK, innit? I'm leaving this site, (really, really, really, really this time :P) I'm off to other pastures. I will miss people, namely Sara, Ivet, some of the other Germans, this one person who had a super boring summer in Constantinople, and this one person who also thinks that raspberries are awesome! And oh yeah, many of the fans of my second fav band! Also thanks to the admin and family and moderators, it's such an interesting site, it had me addicted for over two years. One pain in the ass less again now! :P And Reilly, I think you maybe need a good fat hug from Chuck Kottke, he's so much better with words and is a man, who's brain seems to tick a hellish lot like mine. He might be able to explain things to you, less emo and incoherent than I, which are subliminally connected to what's happening with the occupying business. It's about people waking up, find out who they really are. Be daring and go ask him about it, and confront yourself with some concepts which you apparently don't understand yet. Just imho. Bye. :)

^:dazzled: walk in the park- beach house

Yes yes yes, I do like you very much! :dance::awesome:

L'ignorance expirera, La liberté triomphera, Ah! ça ira, ça ira, ça ira!

NO MATTER HOW IT ENDS NO MATTER HOW IT STARTS