If the Israelis were really trying avoid civilian deaths they wouldn't be launching any attacks on Lebanon.

 

They aren't defending themselves, by no means is this a nation defending themselves. I struggle to see how this slaughter of Lebanese can be at all perceived as Israel defending itself.

 

Its a horrendous loss of life.

 

Israel lost any support I had for them the moment they resorted to violence to get back the two kidnapped soldiers.

 

Hezbollah claim to have kidnapped the two soldiers originally for the purpose of negotiating the release of Lebanese prisoners held in Israeli prisons. How's about, when the bloodshed is over, the Israelis release as many Lebanese prisoners as innocent civilians they have killed.

 

A life for a life.

 

They are defending themselves. Hezoballah keeps attacking them, they have once choice to stop that and that is to destroy hezbollah. becuase if they dont they will continue to attack them as long as one of them is still there. its either israel or hezbollah.

 

where is the public outcry about the far more people being slaughtered in Africa right now? where is the world on that? maybe it has to do with no jews in africa?

this coming from the guy throwing around the "unamerican" card a few weeks ago. People who dont agree with your opinions are now unamerican or shallow? ok then

 

 

No, 99% of people who dont agree with me arent unamerican. just those who truly hate america. its people like you and gareth who dont look beyond the surface of things. you just look at the face value and make your decision. its truly ignorant.

 

prime example would be the unamerican thing, i called ONE person out of everyone here unamerican and that means i assume everyone is unamerican? now now you dont seem to be using your head. so brandon good example!!! go way to prove your point, i called one person that and that must mean i feel that way about everyone! you should be a scientist! with a mind like that:rolleyes:

I don't know why there isn't more public outcry about the slaughter of innocents in Africa, I've been harping on in my blog about how the Congoese conflicts of the past decade have killed 7 million people, more than any other armed conflict since the second world war. And its a tragedy, it really is. Luckily it's slowly getting better there now. They've had the first democratic elections in nearly forty years, and going on UN reports there hasn't very much trouble with election rigging compared to the USA or Ukraine.

The business with the Muslims killing the natives in Dafor gets a bit of coverage, but only cos the media were onto quicker than the US/UK governments and the UN.

 

I have stong opinions on the loss of innocent lives in Africa too. However, this thread is about the current conflict between Israel and Lebanon.

 

Violence is never the only option. That's what I was taught at school and I still believe it.

 

I understand that before the current conflict, Hezbollah was supprted by between 20% and 30% of the Lebanese population, mainly because in the south of the country in addition to being an armed militia they provided schools and hospital and other civic services that the regular government were unable to. So lets assume that of the 20% to 30%, its only 10% to 15% who support the militia and the other 85% to 90% don't so much.

 

I'm not a politician, I'm thousands of miles away in Scotland, but maybe if the Israeli government tried to help the legitimate Lebanese government with the healthcare and education, maybe if the Israeli nation helped support the non-Hezbollah side of Lebanon with loans and services and business and anything that isn't violence. And don't ever give up on trying to peacefully resolve the situation.

 

At the moment there are around 760 dead Lebanese right now who are dead because Israel gave up on trying to peacefully resolve the situation.

 

But hey, what do I know

sadly on planet earth violence often is the only option. It isnt when both sides want peace, BUT when one side wants the other completely destroyed israel has no other option then to fight. israel can do nothing and let hezobollah keep attacking or they can do all they can to stop it. How are they wrong for defending themselves?

sadly on planet earth violence often is the only option. It isnt when both sides want peace' date=' BUT when one side wants the other completely destroyed israel has no other option then to fight. israel can do nothing and let hezobollah keep attacking or they can do all they can to stop it. How are they wrong for defending themselves?[/quote']

 

Firstly, we can't have this discussion cos I don't see how what Israel is doing can be considered defending themselves. Defending themselves isn't wrong, but I just don't see how what they are doing can be considered defending themselves. It looks to me like they're killing lots and lots of Lebanese civilians and destroying a nation's infrastructure thats used mainly by civilians.

 

and secondly, you always have the option not to fight. The number of fights I've avoided not bothering, by just shrugging and walking away.

 

I understand that before the current conflict, Hezbollah was supprted by between 20% and 30% of the Lebanese population, mainly because in the south of the country in addition to being an armed militia they provided schools and hospital and other civic services that the regular government were unable to. So lets assume that of the 20% to 30%, its only 10% to 15% who support the militia and the other 85% to 90% don't so much.

 

I'm not a politician, I'm thousands of miles away in Scotland, but maybe if the Israeli government tried to help the legitimate Lebanese government with the healthcare and education, maybe if the Israeli nation helped support the non-Hezbollah side of Lebanon with loans and services and business and anything that isn't violence. And don't ever give up on trying to peacefully resolve the situation.

Its late, I'm tired, I'm walking away.

How is it not defending itself? hezobollah attacked them, and will continue to do so until it is destroyed. they have no other option but to attack, otherwise more israeli's will die, thus making what they do self defense. israel didnt go out looking for trouble, it was attacked and the only to make their country safe is to destroy the attackers. its quite simple.

its quite simple.

 

Yes, especially for someone who doesn't live in a region where fighting never stops. Since we're so safe here in the United States, going to war seems like an easy choice to make. After all, you're not going to be the one dying.

Yes' date=' especially for someone who doesn't live in a region where fighting never stops. Since we're so safe here in the United States, going to war seems like an easy choice to make. After all, you're not going to be the one dying.[/quote']

 

 

again you are looking at the surface. good job, not surprised though

I love the neutrality of the topic title. Wouldn't want to make the title objective by saying something to the effect of, Rate the Israeli Reaction, or Your Opinion on the Israeli Reaction, now would we? :rolleyes:

nah the topic title is fine, it says to quite rightly - Israel is hitting back at those who attacked it - but has it gone to far?

 

Yes and no is my answer.

How is it not defending itself? hezobollah attacked them' date=' and will continue to do so until it is destroyed. they have no other option but to attack, otherwise more israeli's will die, thus making what they do self defense. israel didnt go out looking for trouble, it was attacked and the only to make their country safe is to destroy the attackers. its quite simple.[/quote']

 

I'll address this by breaking it into bullet points:

• How is it not defending itself
  By destroying a nation's infrastructure, killing at least 750 civilians, firing missiles into residential areas. You're getting militant Hezbollah confused with the entire nation of Lebanon
  
• they (israel) have no other option but to attack,
  They always have options not to attack, you can chose to resort to violence or not to
  
• otherwise more Israeli's will die
  Fewer Israelis would have died, fewer Lebanese would have died, fewer people would have died. They would have died at a slower rate than all out war. Maybe if in the past few weeks if Israel had retaliated, only 7 Israelis would have died. Seven too many you may say. But at the moment due to the retalitalory action its around 60 Israeli's who have died, thats 60 too many. But also 750 Lebanese civilians have been killed, seven times as many. But that's okay, cos compared to the war in the Congo, where 7 million lives have been lost. 7 Israeli's dying is still a tragedy, but its a million times better
  
• thus making what they do self defense.
  No, it makes it retalitory action
  
• israel didnt go out looking for trouble, it was attacked and the only to make their country safe is to destroy the attackers.
  Small minded-ness there are many other ways to make a country safe
  
• Its quite simple
  No its very complicated, and all sides are quite stubborn on the issue
   
  Right, I live in Scotland, but I'm from Manchester England, part of the UK. The UK comprises of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. In Northern Ireland they have a militia called the IRA who rather hate the English. Throughout the 80s and 90, they raged a terrorist war against the English. I was in Manchester the day they set off the largest bomb to go off in mainland Britain since WWII in the city centre. I've seen it reduced to rubble with my own eyes.
  Rather than start bombing Northern Ireland and Ireland from whence the IRA got their weapons and safehouses, we just very slowly engaged in the peace process. People were still killed by the IRA, but fewer people. And now its just a bunch of politicians in Northern Ireland bickering and arguing, but not bombing anyone.
   
  Imagine if some of the Lebanese folk were Coldplay fans, it is possible. There were all these music festivals planned for the summer, Deep Purple were playing, who knows, next year it could have been Coldplay.

*coughs* Sunday, Bloody Sunday...

 

It was chaos on the streets of Belfast in the late sixites and early seventies. Then they started bombing over here. If it had been the French(for example) we would've hit back. You cant really hit back at the citizens of your country. Comparing British Citizens to were in the IRA to a bigger organisation that lives in another country isnt fair.

It was chaos on the streets of Belfast in the late sixites and early seventies. Then they started bombing over here. If it had been the French(for example) we would've hit back. You cant really hit back at the citizens of your country. Comparing British Citizens to were in the IRA to a bigger organisation that lives in another country isnt fair.

 

I agree its not an equivalent comparison, but my point was that the British have a perspective and understanding of the situation with Lebanon and Israel that can appreciate bombings, devestation and murders a little differently to the US perspective, which I can only assume is "something to do with people very far away".

A Manc in da house coool !

I don't know why there isn't more public outcry about the slaughter of innocents in Africa, I've been harping on in my blog about how the Congoese conflicts of the past decade have killed 7 million people, more than any other armed conflict since the second world war. And its a tragedy, it really is. Luckily it's slowly getting better there now. They've had the first democratic elections in nearly forty years, and going on UN reports there hasn't very much trouble with election rigging compared to the USA or Ukraine.

The business with the Muslims killing the natives in Dafor gets a bit of coverage, but only cos the media were onto quicker than the US/UK governments and the UN.

 

I have stong opinions on the loss of innocent lives in Africa too. However, this thread is about the current conflict between Israel and Lebanon.

 

Violence is never the only option. That's what I was taught at school and I still believe it.

 

I understand that before the current conflict, Hezbollah was supprted by between 20% and 30% of the Lebanese population, mainly because in the south of the country in addition to being an armed militia they provided schools and hospital and other civic services that the regular government were unable to. So lets assume that of the 20% to 30%, its only 10% to 15% who support the militia and the other 85% to 90% don't so much.

 

I'm not a politician, I'm thousands of miles away in Scotland, but maybe if the Israeli government tried to help the legitimate Lebanese government with the healthcare and education, maybe if the Israeli nation helped support the non-Hezbollah side of Lebanon with loans and services and business and anything that isn't violence. And don't ever give up on trying to peacefully resolve the situation.

 

At the moment there are around 760 dead Lebanese right now who are dead because Israel gave up on trying to peacefully resolve the situation.

 

But hey, what do I know

we had already discussed this issue so much in the other thread about this. But im just gonna say what i said there (although i have lots of things to say but u can look there)

Hizballa is not ssome political party in a democratic country that we would be able to nagotiate with and come to an agreement. Have u ever heard of a nagotiation with a terror organization that worked?

Ever heard of the Oslo Agreement? Did that work?

 

Hizballa, amongst other organizations, want the distruction of israel completly. There's no way to nagotiate with that. You'll give them a finger and theyll want the whole hand. You know we gave back Gaza Strip last year?

 

and if there's a side that's killing more civvilians, u should check the statistics. Israel has lost thousands of civilians through the suicide bombings, especially in 2002. And we are defending ourselves because ppl are ignoring the fact that the hizballa is shooting between 100 to 200 missles at us everyday.

The only reason we have less causlaties is bacause we have better shelter.

We shouldnt be expected to sit back and do nothing because lebanon doesnt have good shelter. Then why did they attack in the first place?

 

and if hizballa wants the best for its ppl, why do they hide amongst civilians? Y did they shoot a missle at nazerath- an arabian city??

u keep claiming there are other ways to confront the situation without using violence.

 

plz, im open to your opinion. Suggest one!

 

dont u think if there was a different way to deal with this we would?

U think we enjoy killing civilians, being at war, going down to the shelters all the time and having ppl of our own killed????

Edits !

what are u talking about?

u keep claiming there are other ways to confront the situation without using violence.

 

plz, im open to your opinion. Suggest one!

Alienate Hezbollah from their supporters.

Plough Israeli money into Lebanese schools and hospitals as an alternative to the Hezbollah funding.

Arrange cultural exchanges and twinned music festivals to divert the Hezbollah's supporters. http://ontheface.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2006/7/31/2183044.html

Improve business links and investment between Israel and southern Lebanon, so the civilians have jobs and security, rather than being poor and desperate.

Make it easy for moderate Lebanese to want closer links with Israel.

 

Dilute support for the militant side of Hezbollah

That is a good idea - But i dont think Hisbollah would like that. Both sides need to work together - they wont unfortunatly.

Alienate Hezbollah from their supporters.

Plough Israeli money into Lebanese schools and hospitals as an alternative to the Hezbollah funding.

Arrange cultural exchanges and twinned music festivals to divert the Hezbollah's supporters. http://ontheface.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2006/7/31/2183044.html

Improve business links and investment between Israel and southern Lebanon, so the civilians have jobs and security, rather than being poor and desperate.

Make it easy for moderate Lebanese to want closer links with Israel.

 

Dilute support for the militant side of Hezbollah

it seems like a very good idea in theory, i just dont think that'll ever work

i dont believe we could actually gain support from the lebanonese ppl, especially after all that has happenned. Even if there is a drastic change now...

they, and all the other arabian counties surounding us, just want us out of here. And if the wat now stops, in a year another one will start from a different border. The whole situation sucks, and what sucks even more is that i just dont see a way out of it...

i dont believe we could actually gain support from the lebanonese ppl, especially after all that has happenned. Even if there is a drastic change now...

they, and all the other arabian counties surounding us, just want us out of here. And if the wat now stops, in a year another one will start from a different border. The whole situation sucks, and what sucks even more is that i just dont see a way out of it...

 

It could have gained the support of some of the Lebanese people, maybe not all of them, maybe most of them, who knows without trying?

But of course after all that's happened now, it would be a lot more difficult. But peace and love is a bloody good idea and its always worth a try.

Stop the bombing, offer blood money for the dead.

Every time a Hezbollah rocket comes over send the bill for repairs the Lebanese government.

 

And if the war stops now, and in a year another one starts, thats a whole year that people have to live that they won't have if the war doesn't stop right now. and if the war does start again next year on another border, then that war can stop too, cos you've done it before.

 

The whole situation does suck, and the way out is to stop the fighting as quickly as possible.

 

Everytime it starts, stop it again, as quickly as possible.

 

Cos Peace and Love is a bloody good idea

im also for peice and love

 

but im also realistic. Is israel stops the fighting, doesnt mean hizballa will too. Then it would be a one sided attack.

Why are ppl expecting israel to stop the attack- a step like that needs to be mutual, and that wont happen. The attack from the arabian side wont stop even if we give back land. That's what happenned last year

I am all for peace and love ! thats all I have been asking for !