It sounds like the plot for the latest summer horror movie. Imagine, for a moment, that George W. Bush had been allowed a third term as president, had run and had won or stolen it, and that we were all now living (and dying) through it. With the Democrats in control of Congress but Bush still in the Oval Office, the media would certainly be talking endlessly about a mandate for bipartisanship and the importance of taking into account the concerns of Republicans. Can't you just picture it?

 

There's Dubya now, still rewriting laws via signing statements. Still creating and destroying laws with executive orders. And still violating laws at his whim. Imagine Bush continuing his policy of extraordinary rendition, sending prisoners off to other countries with grim interrogation reputations to be held and tortured. I can even picture him formalizing his policy of preventive detention, sprucing it up with some "due process" even as he permanently removes habeas corpus from our culture.

 

I picture this demonic president still swearing he doesn't torture, still insisting that he wants to close Guantanamo, but assuring his subordinates that the commander-in-chief has the power to torture "if needed," and maintaining a prison at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan that makes Guantanamo look like summer camp. I can imagine him continuing to keep secret his warrantless spying programs while protecting the corporations and government officials involved.

 

If Bush were in his third term, we would already have seen him propose, yet again, the largest military budget in the history of the world. We might well have seen him pretend he was including war funding in the standard budget, and then claim that one final supplemental war budget was still needed, immediately after which he would surely announce that yet another war supplemental bill would be needed down the road. And of course, he would have held onto his Secretary of Defense from his second term, Robert Gates, to run the Pentagon, keep our ongoing wars rolling along, and oversee the better part of our public budget.

 

Bush would undoubtedly be following through on the agreement he signed with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki for all U.S. troops to leave Iraq by the end of 2011 (except where he chose not to follow through). His generals would, in the meantime, be leaking word that the United States never intended to actually leave. He'd surely be maintaining current levels of troops in Iraq, while sending thousands more troops to Afghanistan and talking about a new "surge" there. He'd probably also be escalating the campaign he launched late in his second term to use drone aircraft to illegally and repeatedly strike into Pakistan's tribal borderlands with Afghanistan.

 

If Bush were still "the decider" he'd be employing mercenaries like Blackwater and propagandists like the Rendon Group and he might even be expanding the number of private security contractors in Afghanistan. In fact, the whole executive branch would be packed with disreputable corporate executive types. You'd have somebody like John ("May I torture this one some more, please?") Rizzo still serving, at least for a while, as general counsel at the CIA. The White House and Justice Department would be crawling with corporate cronies, people like John Brennan, Greg Craig, James Jones, and Eric Holder. Most of the top prosecutors hired at the Department of Justice for political purposes would still be on the job. And political prisoners, like former Alabama Governor Don Siegelman and former top Democratic donor Paul Minor would still be abandoned to their fate.

 

In addition, the bank bailouts Bush and his economic team initiated in his second term would still be rolling along - with a similar crowd of people running the show. Ben Bernanke, for instance, would certainly have been reappointed to run the Fed. And Bush's third term would have guaranteed that there would be none of the monkeying around with the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) that the Democrats proposed or promised in their losing presidential campaign. At this point in Bush's third term, no significant new effort would have begun to restore Katrina-decimated New Orleans either.

 

If the Democrats in Congress attempted to pass any set of needed reforms like, to take an example, new healthcare legislation, Bush, the third termer, would have held secret meetings in the White House with insurance and drug company executives to devise a means to turn such proposals to their advantage. And he would have refused to release the visitor logs so that the American public would have no way of knowing just whom he'd been talking to.

 

During Bush's second term, some of the lowest ranking torturers from Abu Ghraib were prosecuted as bad apples, while those officials responsible for the policies that led to Abu Ghraib remained untouched. If the public continued to push for justice for torturers during the early months of Bush's third term, he would certainly have gone with another bad apple approach, perhaps targeting only low-ranking CIA interrogators and CIA contractors for prosecution. Bush would undoubtedly have decreed that any higher-ups would not be touched, that we should now be looking forward, not backward. And he would thereby have cemented in place the power of presidents to grant immunity for crimes they themselves authorized.

 

If Bush were in his third term, some of his first and second term secrets might, by now, have been forced out into the open by lawsuits, but what Americans actually read wouldn't be significantly worse than what we'd already known. What documents saw the light of day would surely have had large portions of their pages redacted, and the vast bulk of documentation that might prove threatening would remain hidden from the public eye. Bush's lawyers would be fighting in court, with ever grander claims of executive power, to keep his wrongdoing out of sight.

 

Now, here's the funny part. This dark fantasy of a third Bush term is also an accurate portrait of Obama's first term to date. In following Bush, Obama was given the opportunity either to restore the rule of law and the balance of powers or to firmly establish in place what were otherwise aberrant abuses of power. Thus far, President Obama has, in all the areas mentioned above, chosen the latter course. Everything described, from the continuation of crimes to the efforts to hide them away, from the corruption of corporate power to the assertion of the executive power to legislate, is Obama's presidency in its first seven months.

 

Which doesn't mean there aren't differences in the two moments. For one thing, Democrats have now joined Republicans in approving expanded presidential powers and even - in the case of wars, military strikes, lawless detention and rendition, warrantless spying, and the obstruction of justice - presidential crimes. In addition, in the new Democratic era of goodwill, peace and justice movements have been strikingly defunded and, in some cases, even shut down. Many progressive groups now, in fact, take their signals from the president and his team, rather than bringing the public's demands to his doorstep.

 

If we really were in Bush's third term, people would be far more active and outraged. There would already be a major push to really end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan/Pakistan. Undoubtedly, the Democrats still wouldn't impeach Bush, especially since they'd be able to vote him out before his fourth term, and surely four more years of him wouldn't make all that much difference.

 

http://www.truthout.org/090209D?n

Yes. Death to Obama.

Too far. A simple vote for change would suffice.

Death to voters.

What? Isn't Mr Obama doing what he feels is best for your country? To compare him with Bush is mind boggling. Personally though, I have never thought of Bush as a dickhead. Strange yes, but why should I voice my opinion on him like other idiots in my country say. People in this country even think WE should be voting in the Presidential Elections because "it has wider implications on the world" Can you believe that? The height of ignorance and rudeness. The American President is FOR the American people VOTED by the American people. It has nowt to do with us lot so I urge you Americans NOT to listen to individuals from other countries on this health reform issue but to people only from your country.

Mind boggeling? A massive deficit(Bush did that), more war(Bush did that), bigger military(Bush did that), more attacks on our freedoms and Constitution(Bush did that), more bail outs for the rich(Bush did that), more of being the world police(Bush did that) and Obama is doing this too! A lot of people are waking up and realizing Obama is very similar to Bush. With his massive, military controling government and spending.

 

Tell me how they are different, if its so mind boggeling, name some major differences. I ask this of anyone who says otherwise and most cannot answer. A few name some minor policies, but in the major core polices, how are they different?

Mind boggeling? A massive deficit(Bush did that), more war(Bush did that), bigger military(Bush did that), more attacks on our freedoms and Constitution(Bush did that), more bail outs for the rich(Bush did that), more of being the world police(Bush did that) and Obama is doing this too! A lot of people are waking up and realizing Obama is very similar to Bush. With his massive, military controling government and spending.

 

Tell me how they are different, if its so mind boggeling, name some major differences. I ask this of anyone who says otherwise and most cannot answer. A few name some minor policies, but in the major core polices, how are they different?

 

OK OK OK! So it appears Obama might be turning into Tony Blair the second, because everything you've listed their Josh can be directly associated with Tony Blair. Tony Blair - promised much, delivered little.

P.S Josh I am not mc_sqaured jnr.:dozey:

Sorry, I'll chill out with that. Btw I'm Nick.

Sorry, I'll chill out with that. Btw I'm Nick.

 

JESUS CHRIST why did I think I was talking to Josh?! Sorry about that NICK, i'm getting confused because of that "other thread".

wat

wat

 

Don't be alarmed mate! For some reason that I can't explain (no pun, honest) I thought I was talking to you. Brain was scrambled, black out... you name it. I was jumping between two threads (it's all kicking off in The Lounge) and I got a bit confused!

:lol: funny thread!

 

ok so yes, I read he is sending more troops to Afghanistan.. not cool.

 

deficit: um, kinda hard to blame it on him since yes, it has gone up since he's been in office all of what... 8 mos.? Compared to the trillions our previous president left us with? I dont think this is a valid point.

 

constitutional rights revoked: whaaaat? when? and how? Because I'm a simpleton and I missed this memo. If you're talking about the internet thing... thats completely different matter. Thats not a constitutional right.. lol freedom, maybe.. but policing the net maybe isn't such a bad idea considering there are many sickos and weirdos not to mention "evil doers" :rolleyes: -the govt has always maintained an eye on the internet. They invented it! Sucky but true.

 

more bail outs: ??? did I miss another AIG? Because last time I checked, that was under Bush. As for the car manufacturers... there really wasnt much choice. I think our economy would have been more in the whole than we already were/are. Not that I agree with bailing out those companies to begin with... but, really... its not like he's giving it away. lol sucks all the way around.

 

I think its a bit extreme to compare their terms... its much too early. Do I agree with everything he has done since he's been in office... no. Not everything. But am I willing to give the man at least a year into his presidency to show me other wise... sure. I guess what bothers me the most is that everyone is so quick to dog the guy out. For chrissakes... step back and let the man do his job... then after 1 term or at least 2 yrs into it... we can start to compare... its just too soon.

 

Even I who voted Gore and sadly admitting the next, Kerry.. Gave Dubble Ya a chance.. he failed miserably.. but I gave him the chance. And to be honest.. looking back, I'm actually glad Kerry didn't win.. lol he's scary to me now lol

Watch "The Obama Deception". Surprisingly, it has a whole host of stars and respected thinkers/writers - as well as some well researched points.

 

It doesn't really make much difference who is in the Whitehouse as "president". Bummer eh?

 

Double Click the video to watch a bigger version

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw]YouTube - The Obama Deception HQ Full length version[/ame]

 

The Obama Deception is a hard-hitting film that completely destroys the myth that Barack Obama is working for the best interests of the American people.

 

The Obama phenomenon is a hoax carefully crafted by the captains of the New World Order. He is being pushed as savior in an attempt to con the American people into accepting global slavery.

 

We have reached a critical juncture in the New World Order's plans. It's not about Left or Right: it's about a One World Government. The international banks plan to loot the people of the United States and turn them into slaves on a Global Plantation.

 

Covered in this film: who Obama works for, what lies he has told, and his real agenda. If you want to know the facts and cut through all the hype, this is the film for you.

 

Watch the Obama Deception and learn how:

- Obama is continuing the process of transforming America into something that resembles Nazi Germany, with forced National Service, domestic civilian spies, warrantless wiretaps, the destruction of the Second Amendment, FEMA camps and Martial Law.

 

- Obama's handlers are openly announcing the creation of a new Bank of the World that will dominate every nation on earth through carbon taxes and military force.

 

- International bankers purposefully engineered the worldwide financial meltdown to bankrupt the nations of the planet and bring in World Government.

 

- Obama plans to loot the middle class, destroy pensions and federalize the states so that the population is completely dependent on the Central Government.

 

- The Elite are using Obama to pacify the public so they can usher in the North American Union by stealth, launch a new Cold War and continue the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan.

deficit: um, kinda hard to blame it on him since yes, it has gone up since he's been in office all of what... 8 mos.? Compared to the trillions our previous president left us with? I dont think this is a valid point.

 

He's spending more than Bush, so yes it is a valid point. If you think Bush spent too much, which he did, Obama plans on spending much more and that is a problem.

 

 

constitutional rights revoked: whaaaat? when? and how? Because I'm a simpleton and I missed this memo.

 

He supported FISA and the Patriot Act and has done nothing to change them. I want change, I want Bush's attacks on our freedoms that he supported fixed, but he does not want to because he agrees with them. Also with the internet, that is not a Constitutional matter but still an attempt at taking away more freedoms and grabbing more power.

 

more bail outs: ??? did I miss another AIG? Because last time I checked, that was under Bush.

 

He gave a lot of GM. The Fed while Obama has been in office and its chief who he picked to run it another 4 years have smuggled over a trillion to Wall St through POMO(Permanent Open Markets Operations) and other programs. He had a chance to save half of the Bush's 700 billion bail out, but he has been spending it on bailing out the corrupt like Bush did. He could have not used the 350 billion he inherited.

 

I think its a bit extreme to compare their terms

 

I just showed how its not. Look at spending and projected spending, they're very similar. Thought and voting record on the Constitution, the same. Bail out of the Oligarch's, the same. Attitude for war and a large world police military are the same. On most of the core issues, they are the same so far and there is no sign of difference yet. Now if he does a 180 it would change everything, but he has put himself in a position where he cannot, nor has he shown any intent on doing that. So all sign's point to more of the same, another Bush but bigger.

 

looking back, I'm actually glad Kerry didn't win.. lol he's scary to me now lol

 

:stunned: Who are you and what have you done with Camille?

Watch "The Obama Deception". Surprisingly, it has a whole host of stars and respected thinkers/writers - as well as some well researched points.

 

It doesn't really make much difference who is in the Whitehouse as "president". Bummer eh?

 

Double Click the video to watch a bigger version

 

 

The Obama Deception is a hard-hitting film that completely destroys the myth that Barack Obama is working for the best interests of the American people.

 

The Obama phenomenon is a hoax carefully crafted by the captains of the New World Order. He is being pushed as savior in an attempt to con the American people into accepting global slavery.

 

We have reached a critical juncture in the New World Order's plans. It's not about Left or Right: it's about a One World Government. The international banks plan to loot the people of the United States and turn them into slaves on a Global Plantation.

 

Covered in this film: who Obama works for, what lies he has told, and his real agenda. If you want to know the facts and cut through all the hype, this is the film for you.

 

Watch the Obama Deception and learn how:

- Obama is continuing the process of transforming America into something that resembles Nazi Germany, with forced National Service, domestic civilian spies, warrantless wiretaps, the destruction of the Second Amendment, FEMA camps and Martial Law.

 

- Obama's handlers are openly announcing the creation of a new Bank of the World that will dominate every nation on earth through carbon taxes and military force.

 

- International bankers purposefully engineered the worldwide financial meltdown to bankrupt the nations of the planet and bring in World Government.

 

- Obama plans to loot the middle class, destroy pensions and federalize the states so that the population is completely dependent on the Central Government.

 

- The Elite are using Obama to pacify the public so they can usher in the North American Union by stealth, launch a new Cold War and continue the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

 

Thanks but no thanks:

 

http://www.conspiracyscience.com/articles/alex-jones/the-obama-deception/

 

Debunks this whole movie.

You don't agree with Obama's former Green Jobs Czar?

I really don' t care to discuss Obama's job performance. He has not done much yet really. I think he needs a little more than 8 months and what he "plans" to do to truly judge him yet. I still feel better with him in office than Bush or McCain. Call it naivite if you want Nick. People like you and most neocons/libertarians are on a witch hunt nitpicking every single thing he does and using talking points and scare tactics to freak everyone out. I can almost guarantee that if McCain had won and done similar actions you would not have posted half the threads you did.

lol a Neocon is Bush....a liberatarian is the opposite of a neo-con. Neo=new Con=Conservative, big spending, big government "Conservatives" are neo-cons, like Bush...notice I have the opposite view of Bush, thus I am the opposite of a neo-con. If you don't want to discuss this issue, why are you in the thread about this? lol, don't post and ignore it or post and be happy with what goes on.

 

 

 

If McCain had won, I'd post more threads attacking him...for the same things as Bush/Obama did/doing.

 

You're more of a Neo-con than me, you support big spending and big government, which is what a Neo-con's core belief are.

Nick, condescend all you want. I know what a neocon is. Get off your high horse. I post in here because the vomit you spew all day about Obama makes me sick. When the doomsday scenarios come true, I'll give you some props. Until then, I'll post in here and try to take on your superior political intellect:whatever:

:stunned:

 

why oh why is govt so corrupt. I say we start a revolution! :sneaky: -well I still gotta give the man a shot... thats all I'm saying.

I don't like what Obama is doing either just continuing with bush. The thing that's really weird about Bush is that Conservatives believe in less government and less spending, but it seems that in this case Bush was a bit more liberal in just spending massive amounts of money for the wars. With all this money Obama is spending it is extremely worrysome, and now with healthcare wanting to be shoved down the throats of the people, if it get's past things will probably get worse.

 

 

Why can't Bill Clinton be in office again :thinking:

:stunned:

 

why oh why is govt so corrupt. I say we start a revolution! :sneaky: -well I still gotta give the man a shot... thats all I'm saying.

 

Ron Paul Revolution!

I don't like what Obama is doing either just continuing with bush. The thing that's really weird about Bush is that Conservatives believe in less government and less spending, but it seems that in this case Bush was a bit more liberal in just spending massive amounts of money for the wars. With all this money Obama is spending it is extremely worrysome, and now with healthcare wanting to be shoved down the throats of the people, if it get's past things will probably get worse.

 

 

Why can't Bill Clinton be in office again :thinking:

 

Clinton wanted to do the same health care intiatives.

Clinton was a great president but hit the jackpot of the dotcom boom so no one cared that much because people were rolling in cash.