Saffire

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seigniorage Everybody read this and understand it. The reason China is so capitalist today is because they know firsthand what socialism and communism do to a country. China is preparing to be the next superpower, and rightfully so.

Marx thought value comes from labor. He was virtually an ape.

Goldman Sachs is like a fraternity for the rich and powerful. It's a bunch of douchebags who think they're smarter and more cosmopolitan than everyone else. Well guess what? Now it's a commercial bank, not an investment bank. He might as well have been a teller at Bank of America somewhere.

Chuck, that's a nice list. I would de-fang the government by forcing it to work within budget. They would complain about threats from other states, but the fact is America has been paying for the defense of the entire West for years now. It's time Europe and other states begin to contribute more in terms of defense tech. Another thing I'd enact is granting the President a "line item veto". This would put the burden of public scrutiny on him when he had the ability to disregard pork, but decides to let it pass anyway.

As I type the DOW is down another 720 points. According to a trader on the floor, "The Fed is out of tricks, there's still some room on the downside. This is a very, very scary market." Guys, we don't see stuff like this very often. Overseas equity is also down 20%. I couldn't imagine a better time to invest. We're seeing huge bargains, not just in those "safe" stocks but also the ones that stand to do the best when the global economy begins its slow recovery.

This sounds highly probable! ;) But worse things have happened. It all started with that rat, Abraham Lincoln, when he ignored Habeus Corpus. Then FDR ran for re-election a dozen times. Power is fun.

The banks should all just go to those "payday loans" places we have littered across the southeastern US. Sure, the interest rates are 100%, but it's EASY MONEY! ;)

LOL that video was the bomb. It actually makes me like Joe Biden even more.

Well it's pretty much official now, America can't claim to have "free markets" or be "capitalist". We're a socialist state (corporatist). Furthermore, we aren't really a "constitutional republic" anymore. That's a ruse.

There are a few in the House. Ron Paul is clean.

It means keeping your money in dollars rather than Euros, Yen, Aussie Dollars, Pounds, etc. FOREX is the currency market that trades their relative values. But when he says to NOT own the dollar, he just means to put your money in stocks, bonds, or commodities (like Gold and Oil). These things can't be artificially inflated by the government.

http://www.europac.net/media/PeterSchiff_10-01-2008.mp3 If you have the time and the stomach, listen to this. Peter Schiff predicted this downturn back in 2006, and here he's predicting how it will end up.

Hence why I'd prefer to own China now than the US. This is the dirty secret that all young Americans should know: DON'T INVEST in your home country! Buy foreign business! Growth won't be found here.

Whoa, VERY interesting. I've always known that we are a massive debtor to China, but it never occurred to me they were the impetus behind this particular bailout! And now that bastard Bill Gross from Pimco is on CNBC hawking the story that taxpayers will make money and this is a bailout for Main Street. In terms of markets and making money, this is one of those times where it seems like it should be so apparent where to invest... and maybe it is. But whenever a trade seems too easy, I get nervous. I'm a contrarian by nature. But right now I'd short the dollar by buying an oil ETF, buy businesses that make most of their profit overseas (tech), and avoid US Equity. China looks good, so does Brazil. We'll see, though. ;)

I don't know why but this is hilarious to me. Lord, forgive me for laughing at the misfortune of reptiles at the hands of 7 year olds.

The stock market's reaction is sorta "meh" because all the traders are selling into the rally for a quick profit. Oil prices are declining and there is talk it will "definitely go much lower" according to a CNBC reporter's sources. Oil is an interesting barometer because it tends to fall when people suspect we are going into a recession (because demand falls) but it should increase as people see the value of the dollar falling (because it takes more dollars to buy a barrel). I expect we could see the markets stagnate or even fall (downside looks to be another 10% or 15% from here) once people realize this bill hasn't done anything to affect credit markets or increased demand for housing. Look for a recession to continue for at least another 6 months, with the possibility of an extended downturn in the housing and financial sectors lasting another two years. Once McBama is elected the first promise they will break is to keep taxes the same for the middle class. There will surely be more regulation on Wall Street, lowering incentive to invest.

Perhaps the stupidest thing I keep hearing from these politicians is how much money the American taxpayers will make! What a viciously dishonest thing to say. The government is going to voluntarily overpay for these MBS's, and they have the audacity to tell us we're set to make money on this? The housing market will continue to stagnate and fall for the next two years. This is a terrible investment no matter what way you look at it. The fifteen minute vote has begun.

Representative Pickering from Mississippi is talking now about how he is voting Yes on this bill to "save free market capitalism". :laugh3:

My name is Jay. What's your's again? I just graduated from college and I'm looking for a job right now (not the best time, I know). I used to get offended when people would call politicians our "leaders" because to me they are only representatives. But maybe they ARE our leaders after all... because they certainly don't represent us. I think sometime in the next 15 years we'll see America fall down into the #2 economic spot, and it'll probably happen in conjunction with the falling dollar. When that happens it'll be really tough to convince voters that we need so many of our resources going to having a military presence overseas. You'll see a mass exodus of America's brightest moving to Europe and other countries around the world with higher standards of living. You and I are just slightly ahead of the curve. BTW, I hope you feel better soon. I really want you to be around to blast that goober (forget how it'll affect your grade) ;) Take a look at this video of Bill O'Reilly beating up on Barney Frank for inspiration: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAuOEdttjZQ]YouTube - O'Reilly Blasts Barney Frank On Fannie Mae Mess!![/ame]

Pray it doesn't. It's minutes from a vote, turn your TV to CNBC or CSPAN. I dunno about you, MrCool011, but I'm very seriously considering leaving this country for more tropical climes where they don't take your money to subsidize bad decisions by banks.

In America we elect "Emperor of the Universe", like our nation's founders intended. So the stakes are a little higher ;)

Chuck, I agree there should be lawsuits against businesses that are engaging in fraud. But any sort of sweeping government oversight of a free market is more of a hindrance in my view. A healthy risk/reward ratio is what keeps a market in-check, not regulation. Regulation alters the risk/reward ratio so that it affects real-world supply/demand, which in turn creates inefficiencies and bubbles. The oversight should be at the individual level. If you watch CNBC, you'll hear them constantly ask the question, "Do you know where your money is?" If you don't, then you're in trouble. If you do, and it's all in a single basket, then you're still in trouble. Don't let your employer manage your retirement account! Hire a good stock broker who doesn't charge a deep commission. Or just open an online account and buy a few index funds (including some foreign funds and ETFs that track commodities like oil). It's really that simple.

It's only a matter of time before it mutates into that huge creature in the Korean horror movie, "The Host"! Maybe the guys from Top Gear can capture them in their amphibious vehicles.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/30/mccain-urges-bush-to-spen_n_130729.html McCain urges Bush to spend $1 Trillion without congressional approval.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=2&vote=00213 Grouped by Home State Alabama: Sessions (R-AL), Nay Shelby (R-AL), Nay Alaska: Murkowski (R-AK), Yea Stevens (R-AK), Yea Arizona: Kyl (R-AZ), Yea McCain (R-AZ), Yea Arkansas: Lincoln (D-AR), Yea Pryor (D-AR), Yea California: Boxer (D-CA), Yea Feinstein (D-CA), Yea Colorado: Allard (R-CO), Nay Salazar (D-CO), Yea Connecticut: Dodd (D-CT), Yea Lieberman (ID-CT), Yea Delaware: Biden (D-DE), Yea Carper (D-DE), Yea Florida: Martinez (R-FL), Yea Nelson (D-FL), Nay Georgia: Chambliss (R-GA), Yea Isakson (R-GA), Yea Hawaii: Akaka (D-HI), Yea Inouye (D-HI), Yea Idaho: Craig (R-ID), Yea Crapo (R-ID), Nay Illinois: Durbin (D-IL), Yea Obama (D-IL), Yea Indiana: Bayh (D-IN), Yea Lugar (R-IN), Yea Iowa: Grassley (R-IA), Yea Harkin (D-IA), Yea Kansas: Brownback (R-KS), Nay Roberts (R-KS), Nay Kentucky: Bunning (R-KY), Nay McConnell (R-KY), Yea Louisiana: Landrieu (D-LA), Nay Vitter (R-LA), Nay Maine: Collins (R-ME), Yea Snowe (R-ME), Yea Maryland: Cardin (D-MD), Yea Mikulski (D-MD), Yea Massachusetts: Kennedy (D-MA), Not Voting Kerry (D-MA), Yea Michigan: Levin (D-MI), Yea Stabenow (D-MI), Nay Minnesota: Coleman (R-MN), Yea Klobuchar (D-MN), Yea Mississippi: Cochran (R-MS), Nay Wicker (R-MS), Nay Missouri: Bond (R-MO), Yea McCaskill (D-MO), Yea Montana: Baucus (D-MT), Yea Tester (D-MT), Nay Nebraska: Hagel (R-NE), Yea Nelson (D-NE), Yea Nevada: Ensign (R-NV), Yea Reid (D-NV), Yea New Hampshire: Gregg (R-NH), Yea Sununu (R-NH), Yea New Jersey: Lautenberg (D-NJ), Yea Menendez (D-NJ), Yea New Mexico: Bingaman (D-NM), Yea Domenici (R-NM), Yea New York: Clinton (D-NY), Yea Schumer (D-NY), Yea North Carolina: Burr (R-NC), Yea Dole (R-NC), Nay North Dakota: Conrad (D-ND), Yea Dorgan (D-ND), Nay Ohio: Brown (D-OH), Yea Voinovich (R-OH), Yea Oklahoma: Coburn (R-OK), Yea Inhofe (R-OK), Nay Oregon: Smith (R-OR), Yea Wyden (D-OR), Nay Pennsylvania: Casey (D-PA), Yea Specter (R-PA), Yea Rhode Island: Reed (D-RI), Yea Whitehouse (D-RI), Yea South Carolina: DeMint (R-SC), Nay Graham (R-SC), Yea South Dakota: Johnson (D-SD), Nay Thune (R-SD), Yea Tennessee: Alexander (R-TN), Yea Corker (R-TN), Yea Texas: Cornyn (R-TX), Yea Hutchison (R-TX), Yea Utah: Bennett (R-UT), Yea Hatch (R-UT), Yea Vermont: Leahy (D-VT), Yea Sanders (I-VT), Nay Virginia: Warner (R-VA), Yea Webb (D-VA), Yea Washington: Cantwell (D-WA), Nay Murray (D-WA), Yea West Virginia: Byrd (D-WV), Yea Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea Wisconsin: Feingold (D-WI), Nay Kohl (D-WI), Yea Wyoming: Barrasso (R-WY), Nay Enzi (R-WY), Nay Find your state, and if your senators voted Yea, you vote Nay on them in November. Tell all your family, friends, coworkers, etc.