DrPolitik

I do think Frank is that other morally corrupt part of Donnie's schism, however that does put a dent in the tangent universe idea, so was the whole Frank the rabbit thing a dream/fantasy and there was no sign from God, was the tangent universe the real universe and all that we saw was not an alternate reality but the real one? This tangent universe may be a sci-fi musing, but view the film from a strictly humanist perspective and it's grounded in the psychological make up of a schitzophrenic, and so Donnie entered his tangent universe to justify his actions, a form of nihilist self gratification? My point being, there's all sorts of ways you can view it, depending on your philosophical weapon of choice. Me, i like the existential nature of it, while also agreeing with your C&P parallels. I too see Donnie as compassionate and caring, as pointed by several scenes where Donnie does get quite emotional when discussing his crisis with various other characters in the film. i wouldn't harness any malicious feelings either, I think he's a very empathetic character, and from a simplistic point of view, he's no less mixed up and confused and trying to make sense of this crazy world than any of us are. In one of the deleted scenes his therapist says he can come of his medication..well personally I think he may not have needed med..I mean who's really crazy in the world? I look around and think the "insane," they're not so crazy...the rest of us...?...hmmm

I've decided it's time to start talking about Nick Cave. This guy is amazing, i'm suprised he's not mentioned here more often, if there were more/any? Aussies here (another baffling fact! They do sell CD's down there don't they!!?? lol) we'd definitely be talking about him. For those uninitated the Cavester specializes in mostly piano ballads, but his backing band rock every once in a tune. Cave likes to sing about, among other things, gardens, trees, small towns, strangers, murderers, children buried in snow :stunned:, dead people, ghosts...oh and he uses the word Babe a lot :D

oh well, yes you're right! LB at top def ;) can you believe we have more audiotorture to follow from them!!!, they've got a new album! :stunned: :stunned: :confused: :angry: :angry: Hoobastank!!! :stunned: :stunned: :stunned:

oh no....... :stunned: *covers ears, runs* :dozey:

LP!! dude, they should be at the top of the list! along with Staind :stunned: and Adema :stunned:

lets hope they've starsailed away :P

YES!!! dude could have a field day with the pop-punk genre :lol: Bowling for Soup! :huh: :lol: Wheatus! Evanesence or whatever they're called :P Blink 182!!!

:lol: aahhh starsailor......the debate will rage on....... Wigan trash.......or enigmatic gems :lol:

OH YES!! Inspired thinking! :lol:

news to me too :huh:

i don't think musicians of the future will be scouring the record fairs for rare vinyl of the 'lost Cosmic Rough Riders sessions: A season in audio hell' :stunned:

Muse RH Wilco Interpol all that's interesting me right now :dozey:

how could i forget Starsailor! :stunned: :lol:

Korn Limp Biscuit Andrew WK Creed Bush Puddle of Mudd oh and let me just add: Incubus (way overrated) Kid Rock Insane Clown Posse :rolleyes: :lol: the Strokes the Vines 90% of all other bands beginning with "the" all teeniebopper pop shite Simply Red !!! grrrrrrr oh there's more, oh yes...... :angry: :lol:

ok..i gotta go now..talk again soon hun x :kiss:

talent Michael Zabruder

ohhhh its torture!! :embarrased: :kiss:

oh. *is unaware of b/o sit. in N. America* They finally close the place down for rennovations? :dozey:

i'm not a phish fan...trash. Longwave

well like em or not, they've raised the bar in nu metal (that's if you want to put it in that cat.) and Serj's singing style will be poorly aped in the future.

ok i have some spare moments to indulge in this discourse now, i'm glad someone else loves to peruse the machinations of the Darko psyche, the God Machine and the obvious Steven Hawking overtones not to mention, of the idea of tanent universes, time travel et al...a more serious Bill &Ted if you will. lol... The crime and punishement hypothesis is very valid indeed, however with one slight deviation, Donnie never used to be religious, he thought himself aethiest in fact, then later comes to discover through his therapist that he is more the agnostic type. So there is no real loss of god or redemption of divinty/spirituality to speak of, even if Donnie is on such a quest, he is not consciously aware of it. So i'm not so sure for Donnie, that there was this going back to God you speak of, but i see what you're getting at in drawing the parallels between Raskolonikov and Donnie. To reference Sartre, we're all in some way trying to be god. i think there is a little of this in him, he has a sort of savior complex i think, ie the superhero aspect of his character, his overwhelming drive or need/want to change what he can for the good of those he loves. So yes, what if it really wasn't his fate? In fact in a way i think the film poses this question too, was all his effort in vain in a world there is no escaping from anyway..i think there's a suggestion that we make our own fate..through Frank, real or imagined, there became a manifest destiny and Donnie became his own self fufilling prophecy, as hinted by the overt symbolism in certain scenes that hinted at the final outcome (ie the spiral in the jet engine, stabbing frank in the mirror scene, franks right eye in the theater, to name but a few) So herein lies the heart of the film, Donnie as the archetypal existential protagonist, a man forced to deal with the consequences of his own actions. I think in some way his psyche made it his fate..i'm still clinging to notions that Frank is a part of his psyche, but paradoxically i think there was outside force at work in a way, the whole tangent universe idea..what choice do i have? Frank was Elizabeth's boyfriend, he existed, but who or what is Frank the rabbit? A sign from God?, a psychological complex? To tie the movie's sci-fi explorations together for some sort of coherent cohesive finality the viewer is left with little option to believe Frank was some sort of divine intervention and that Donnie did bend the universal time/space continuum to alter the course of events. Take this away and yes, there we have a Donnie who made those choices himself, entering a fatality that perhaps was not his to choose. A person who played a part he shouldnt have played, but yet he felt he needed to. So this is the choice we the viewer are left with, the Donnie as the superhero entering a tangent universe, guided by fate or the misguided isolationist who wants to right some wrongs. So assume we didn't know the former- would our opinions change of him? Well i think it's like anyone else we hear of or no who does something they maybe shouldnt be doing out of a desire to put things right, make ammends, etc...we weigh up their actions and intentions against the consequences and let our heart or mind decide what our opinion is of that person.

don't spend too long looking :wink3: :lol:

conversely life is a dream death is the only real thing and we are all the imagination of ourselves.

:cry: bye love talk soon :kiss:

you'll have to take it up with Frank, he's in charge of the T.U. department here. wish i knew what you were looking for under the milky way tonight :kiss: