haha

 

traciemorgan...

 

i think you and i took the same theory classes.

and how-to-not-be-a-dick-head classes too.

 

 

 

http://www.myspace.com/themodernantiques

"We're not in the key of C#minor at all. It's E major."

 

no. it's in the key of C# minor.

E major is its relative major... but i don't think anyone could debate this being a major key.

in fact, the only time it hits E is as a passing note in the chorus.

 

it's all C# minor.

 

There is a difference between how things sound and their true keys. If this song was in the key of C#minor then a B# (C natural) would be present. In this song it is a B natural. The chord of G#minor would thus become G#major if the song was truly in C#minor.

 

Instead the song is in E major, but in the Aeolian mode. The scale starts on the 6th note of the scale: C#. In this instance the scale is C# D# E F# G# A B C#.

 

IMHO.

 

Or we could start a lively Harmonic/Melodic scale debate. That would be great!

We're not in the key of C#minor at all. It's E major.

 

Holy shit dude, what are you talking about. C#minor scale IS the relative minor of the E major scale. why the hell would you assume this is the E major scale when the FIRST chord he plays in the song is C#minor?

 

I don't believe augmented 4th is the accepted term. It's more commonly labelled diminished 5th. He doesn't go 'in and out the key' at all. It's all in E. The only things not in key are those descending semitone power chords.

 

i labeled it the "Aug 4th" because the it's A major with the 5th flatted. You can still say diminished 5th but that could be interpreted as flatting the 3rd as well, and in this case, that's obviously not correct.

 

There's no double flatting involved. All that's correct is that D# is the double flat of F. Not that F bears any relevance to the song at all. In the case of the song, the D# is the leading note of the scale, so if we were being picky, the argument would be that the D# doesn't resolve up to E in this phrase. But then again, the song doesn't have a tonal centre of E, so why would it need to? Then we'd get into a whole other argument, etc, etc, name calling, etc. Yawn.

 

it's impossible arguing with you, you don't know what you're talking about. you learned the C# major scale from aliens, as seen below .... but in regards to this above post. Guess what, it's ok for me to say the minor third. i cant believe you argued with me earlier saying i had elementary education in music when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. when they first created minor chords, it was interpreted as "flatting the third" which is what i just explained to you. now i simply explained, in order to get to the add 9th, you double flat the note. you can also add the 9th an octave above (Both are correct) but the thing i was saying was not wrong, either.

 

Oh, and I don't see what's wrong with that C#major scale either, if ya wanna argue about that for a bit? Anyone?

 

 

Are you kidding me here? You wrote this:

 

C# D# E# F# G# A# B# C#....

 

You're telling me that's the major C# scale? It's this:

 

C# D#, F, F#, G#, A#, C

no

 

"If this song was in the key of C#minor then a B# would be present. "

 

no. not at all.

if it were in the key of C# MAJOR it would have a B# in it.

if it were in the key of C# minor (which it is) it would have a B natural (oh my! which it does).

Actually, I failed 'how not to be a dickhead 101',lol. But yeah, the theory here is sound.

 

Trouble is we all speak the same language but with different dialects and varying degrees of knowledge on the subject. My guitarist, who it brilliant, will tell you that E Major and C# Minor are exactly the same when they're not, but relative to each other.

 

You can put 14 musicians in a room, have them all play the same thing perfectly, but describe it completely differently,lol. Conservatory training avoids alot of that, but we don't all have it. (Sorry if that sounded snobby. It's not meant to.)

"If this song was in the key of C#minor then a B# would be present. "

 

no. not at all.

if it were in the key of C# MAJOR it would have a B# in it.

if it were in the key of C# minor (which it is) it would have a B natural (oh my! which it does).

 

Admittedly I've only played through it one on the guitar, but I thought there was a B# in there too as a passing chord.

 

*picks up guitar again*

haha

 

"You can put 14 musicians in a room, have them all play the same thing perfectly, but describe it completely differently,lol."

 

yeah but would any of those musicians argue that a C# minor key would have a B# (C natural) in it?

my guess is no.

 

the guitar goes down halfsteps on F# in the verse... but that doesn't determine the key. that's just a riff.

I'm waiting here in anticipation to see how dr ross explains to us novices how a C natural fits into a C# minor scale....

haha

 

"I'm waiting here in anticipation to see how dr ross explains to us novices how a C natural fits into a C# minor scale...."

 

 

haha! me too!

Someone find me a C natural in the main melody or harmony and i'll shut up.

"You can put 14 musicians in a room, have them all play the same thing perfectly, but describe it completely differently,lol."

 

yeah but would any of those musicians argue that a C# minor key would have a B# (C natural) in it?

my guess is no.

 

the guitar goes down halfsteps on F# in the verse... but that doesn't determine the key. that's just a riff.

 

Not in the Key itself, but as a modal change it's possible.

 

I've had 4 hours sleep today, so I'm going to learn the song later and come back to this thread when I have a better handle on it.:)

Someone find me a C natural in the main melody or harmony and i'll shut up.

 

lol. I thought I did, but I'm still not sure, as per my lat post.

haha

 

"Someone find me a C natural in the main melody or harmony and i'll shut up."

 

since there isn't... does that mean you won't shut up?

"I'm waiting here in anticipation to see how dr ross explains to us novices how a C natural fits into a C# minor scale...."

 

 

haha! me too!

 

Harmonic minor scale has a raised 7th. Melodic scale has a raised 6th and 7th. No? You could argue we were in the Natural minor...

"Someone find me a C natural in the main melody or harmony and i'll shut up."

 

since there isn't... does that mean you won't shut up?

 

yeah dr ross, if you find a c natural in the C# minor scale then i will fuck you and proceed to blow my brains out, just for you. by the way, i forgot to mention i'm a chick mwahaha! who would have thought people could misinterpret "greta22"....

Harmonic minor scale has a raised 7th. Melodic scale has a raised 6th and 7th. No? You could argue we were in the Natural minor...

 

Agreed.

yeah dr ross, if you find a c natural in the C# minor scale then i will fuck you and proceed to blow my brains out, just for you. by the way, i forgot to mention i'm a chick mwahaha! who would have thought people could misinterpret "greta22"....

 

Harmonic minor scale has a raised 7th. Melodic scale has a raised 6th and 7th. No? You could argue we were in the Natural minor...

 

BRING IT ON BABY!

umm

 

"Harmonic minor scale has a raised 7th. Melodic scale has a raised 6th and 7th. No? You could argue we were in the Natural minor..."

 

when people talk keys... it's always assumed they mean the natural minor scale.

yes i will argue it's in the natural minor scale. that's always what the argument was.

 

it's not a harmonic minor, nor a melodic minor.

 

if you thought it was in the key of E major... you were obviously always referring to the C# natural minor scale.

the only thing i know is that i like it :) .

 

but thx for info ;)

I'd agree with that, a nice middle ground. This is like being in the UN.

BRING IT ON BABY!

 

lol ok this thread has now gotten ridiculous, we've all become senile, i'm taking a break to go work on some music myself.

haha

 

haha.

it's not middle ground.

it's C# minor.

C natural is the second to last note in the C# Minor scale

and there is no B natural.

 

this thread is vomit inducing.

 

to lighten the mood, let's all shut up and spend some time on this here site: http://www.pianoworld.com/fun/vpc/piano_chords.htm

lol ok this thread has now gotten ridiculous, we've all become senile, i'm taking a break to go work on some music myself.

 

Erm, I proved the C natural in C#minor problem. I await sex, etc...

C natural is the second to last note in the C# Minor scale

and there is no B natural.

 

this thread is vomit inducing.

 

to lighten the mood, let's all shut up and spend some time on this here site: http://www.pianoworld.com/fun/vpc/piano_chords.htm

 

You're my favourite.