he most definitely sings a D# when an E would fit with the C# minor.

yes, you are right about that

and i don't think you deserve comments like dejan,

but i feel bad for you if you are seriously hung up on rock songs,

i repeat, rock songs that don't conform to the musical theories that jazz is so strictly subjected to,

or classical for that matter.

though as i hope you already know, Mozart, Beethoven, Bach,

and whole load of other classical composers have written pieces with "clashes" and dissonant chords.

it's not "wrong" as stephanbass says. it is intention.

 

the D# doesn't even SOUND bad when played with the C# minor chord. haha.

and i assure you, that E note is not what Chris was aiming for.

 

again, i commend you on your discovery of these "mistakes"

but i don't think they are worth pointing out. at all. it's meager.

 

music theory, though highly valuable in other genres, is just that not important in rock.

for the same reason that Miles Davis was surprised, upon leaving Hendrix with sheet music, to come back and learn that Hendrix couldn't read.

that didn't make him any less of a guitar player. or the same way Paul McCartney never learned how to read music. it's not important.

Violet Hill is just one of a thousand rock songs with "mistakes"

no need to worry about it.

 

 

btw, listen to Taking Tiger Mountain (By Strategy)

let's say if they did it in a correct way (as what as greta said)

 

would it sounds better?

let's say if they did it in a correct way (as what as greta said)

 

would it sounds better?

 

i just picked up my bass upon reading this thread and sung the E note

and i would bet money that, like i said, that E is not what Chris was aiming for.

it's too high, despite the fact that the D# creates a clash when played with C# minor.

 

except it doesn't really clash,

because when Chris hits the D sharp note, it is only for a SECOND. haha.

this is why it shouldn't be considered a mistake. the d# is still in the c sharp minor scale and all he is doing is going up and down the scale.

it would be a mistake if it was the last note in the bar, holding the word "TOP" at 0:44 for example. but he's not.

 

sorry gretta. i get what you mean,

but talk about insignificant.

ok i'm an off to lunch so i have to miss out on anymore great bashing here but finally to respond back to anyone i missed i have to add:

 

- despite everyone's responses, which i appreciate, positive or otherwise, i still HIGHLY doubt he did the d# on purpose. everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so if you like it, that's great. the first thing i said in this thread is that i LOVE this song. i'm not trying to bash it. i was just pointing out the fact though, that the bad choice of the d#, in my opinion, deters from the song from making it even better than it already is. i also dont see why most people are assuming they kept it their deliberately because him and eno and everyone else are all musical geniuses trying to break the conforms of the music barrier. i chose the more logical idea: he just song the note by mistake and no one noticed. it's not a big deal, we all do it, myself included. we dont have to cry over it. i was simply just saying i find it funny that even a producer like eno, being in the business as long as he has, probably didnt notice it.

 

- another reason i highly doubt he sang d# on purpose: the rest of the song is typical of a c# minor format and he never goes out of key in some sort of strange way. if the rest of the song is so forumlaic, why would he suddenly decide to make the (poor) choice of singing half a note flat from what you would sing there?

 

ok, so everyone can continue to call me a music snob and i'll continue to defend my opinion...even though it is like trying to argue with a german on how to speak the english language. unless you know what i'm talking about, everyone's arguements are going to be the same: music has no forumla and it's all about being an "Artist". and yes, i get that. trust me, if anyone gets it, i do. i listen to everything from weird yoko-ono art rock to debussy to coldplay to electronica. i almost ALWAYS write my songs in alternate tunings because i hate standard. i love love love coldplay and if anyone ever tries to call their songwriting "boring" then i always defend them.

 

also, to the person who said the d# doesnt even sound bad over the C#...well of course sololy it doesnt sound bad, because it's still part of a key...but play a C# minor chord on the piano (C#-E-G#) and trust me, you'll sing the E. you probably wont even be able to sing the D# without listening to it by itself at first and then having to practice it over the C# minor chord, it sounds so unnatural. the reason it sounds a bit better on the track is because he happens to be pulling up his fingers when he sings the note and it's not entirely on top of one another

:dozey: You have just made the autopsy of this song... haven't you thought even for a while that those "mistakes", as you call them, maybe are wanted by them? I think that the song is beautiful as it is.. So simply enjoy it!!;)

but play a C# minor chord on the piano (C#-E-G#) and trust me, you'll sing the E. you probably wont even be able to sing the D# without listening to it by itself at first and then having to practice it over the C# minor chord, it sounds so unnatural. the reason it sounds a bit better on the track is because he happens to be pulling up his fingers when he sings the note and it's not entirely on top of one another

 

you're right, if one is playing a c# minor chord it is natural to want to hit that E note.

but because of that, because it is precisely natural, i doubt that it was a mistake as you claim it to be.

so sure, it isn't the natural high note to hit, but it still works because it's still in the scale and he only sings for half a second.

 

i understand what you mean and it's a good observation

but it makes me glad i'm not big on music theory.

when things like a measly little note get in the way of a good song.

a note that i'm certain is meant to be sung. even though it doesn't come off that way on the outset.

 

music theory is highly respectable. and i respect it, for one.

but there are so many avenues of music in which it really doesn't, or rather shouldn't, have a place.

i think it's a great that you picked up that one note, but i'd hate to be you.

to be hung up on something as small as that.

i would give Chris and especially Brian Eno

[who, again, I suggest you listen to, regardless of Coldplay (particularly his first two rock records)]

the benefit of the doubt.

Most everything you wrote was true, and while it's not elitist to point these out, it is ridiculous to label them mistakes.

i'm simply saying, hey, if i were coldplay and i was shelling out a lot of money for a producer, couldn't he at least notice when i'm singing the wrong notes? like... isn't that his job? don't get me wrong, maybe they did it intentionally, maybe eno did notice it. but if he wasn't classically trained in music, like a lot of producers aren't these days, i wouldn't be surprised if he just didnt notice it because he was singing only half a step off.

 

I understand. I guess this is just a matter of opinion.

 

At the end of the day what Coldplay and Eno have released is the definitive version of Violet Hill; everything within it should be looked at as being what Coldplay and Eno intended to create and release. I would have thought that these imperfections would have been picked up by Coldplay, Eno and whoever else had listened to it before release if they were blatant mistakes. If they were to be corrected we would end up with a flat, wall of sound without these the little quirks that catch your attention and give so many of Coldplay's songs character.

ffs... people complaining about the song already?

 

the song is amazing.

 

don't critisise it so soon.

 

It's annoying as hell,

 

we wait for 3 years, and especially the last month has been agonising, then the second it comes out, people are going on about what's wrong with it!

also, to the person who said the d# doesnt even sound bad over the C#...well of course sololy it doesnt sound bad, because it's still part of a key...but play a C# minor chord on the piano (C#-E-G#) and trust me, you'll sing the E. you probably wont even be able to sing the D# without listening to it by itself at first and then having to practice it over the C# minor chord, it sounds so unnatural. the reason it sounds a bit better on the track is because he happens to be pulling up his fingers when he sings the note and it's not entirely on top of one another

 

 

Ok, I took your advice. I got out the keyboard and played a C#m chord with a D#.

 

So now that I can see it on a keyboard to work out what the chord is actually called, it's a

 

C#m add 9

 

As in a real proper chord. A real proper chord that Chris uses all the time when he's playing the piano or guitar. Like, I actually associate that chord with him specifically having worked out other Coldplay songs on the piano. Yes, it's one of the odder sounding ones, but it's a personal favorite, actually. I love it. That slight bit of dissonance really makes it pop in a good way.

 

If you're having trouble getting it to sound right on a keyboard, don't play the D# in the same octave as the rest of the chord, play it an octave higher (thus the add 9 part).

 

 

And speaking as someone who has studied songwriting not just general theory or voice lessons, it sounds way better as a D# than an E.

And speaking as someone who has studied songwriting not just general theory or voice lessons, it sounds way better as a D# than an E.

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1) Great post.

 

2) The D# does indeed sound better, as the high E would have sounded a tad too minor when in conjunction with B and C#.

It doesn't sound dissonant as it would if you're playing a C# minor chord and substitute the E. as i said before, Chris only hits the note for so long.

Chris isn't an idiot and Eno is most definitely not an idiot. They both know that E is the second note of the c# chord, but Chris didn't want to sing it.

That is why you hear him sing "roof (C#) TOPS (D#, not E)" in the song.

The note was intended.

 

music theory is very good and helpful, yet extremely awful in so many obvious ways.

Mate, you are a fucking moron. You obviously know nothing about music theory or production. I really don't know where to start. First of all claiming that the vocals are off key...where'd you get that from?! The song is in C#m, or a mode of Emajor. So the notes of the scale will be C# D# E F# G# A B. So him singing a D# is not out of key, it's not even chromatic colouration. It's completely diatonic. The vocal melody is thereby adding a 9th on top of the minor triad. What the hell is wrong with that?

 

unless you are just hideously ill informed about wobbly vocals i think you should shut up and stop pretending you know what you're talking about.

 

everyone feel free to call this guy a cunt.

 

and the reverb drowning him out? firstly it's not even reverb. it's a short delay. the vocals are so high in the mix, and the dry signal is so clear i don't see how you could claim they're being drowned out.

 

And the production mistake in the priests verse? how is that a mistake? He starts the begining of the sentence a bit early, probably for dramatic effect, and seeing as the rest of the phrase is perfectly in sync i don't know where you got this idea from.

Ok, I took your advice. I got out the keyboard and played a C#m chord with a D#.

 

So now that I can see it on a keyboard to work out what the chord is actually called, it's a

 

C#m add 9

 

thank you

 

And the production mistake in the priests verse? how is that a mistake? He starts the begining of the sentence a bit early, probably for dramatic effect, and seeing as the rest of the phrase is perfectly in sync i don't know where you got this idea from.

 

and thank you

 

if i were to take the time to formulate a real response, these two points would have been what i focused on, but by quoting you i saved a lot of time

Oh and don't worry, no one is going to label you a musical snob, as you evidently know nothing about it.

 

Unless you are merely masquerading a primary school music education as your reference point? Thinking that any note not in the chord is automatically incorrect. I can't think of one form of music where that is the case. Not even in something as strict as a Bach counterpoint, where dissonances exist, even if they are just passing notes or part of a suspension.

 

I'm very happy to keep going on about this as I have the knowledge to defend my arguments.

*Applauds dr_ross and bluexylophone* :)

me so angry right now

Ok, I took your advice. I got out the keyboard and played a C#m chord with a D#.

 

So now that I can see it on a keyboard to work out what the chord is actually called, it's a

 

C#m add 9

 

As in a real proper chord. A real proper chord that Chris uses all the time when he's playing the piano or guitar. Like, I actually associate that chord with him specifically having worked out other Coldplay songs on the piano. Yes, it's one of the odder sounding ones, but it's a personal favorite, actually. I love it. That slight bit of dissonance really makes it pop in a good way.

 

If you're having trouble getting it to sound right on a keyboard, don't play the D# in the same octave as the rest of the chord, play it an octave higher (thus the add 9 part).

 

 

And speaking as someone who has studied songwriting not just general theory or voice lessons, it sounds way better as a D# than an E.

 

First, yes I know Chris uses add 9th chords a lot, as well as maj7th chords (another favorite)... thats why I consider him a great songwriter.

 

However, the C#minor add 9 chord you're talking about... that's the 2nd chord he plays. It goes in this order:

 

C#minor

Was a long and dark december, from the roof tops

 

C#minor add 9

I remember

 

He doesn't get to the add 9 chord, which contains the D#, until the "Remember" part, which is after the part we were debating about....you can clearly hear he's only play C# minor during the part I was discussing.

This is why Chris Martin is a rock star worth $50 million, married to Gwyneth Paltrow, and not a music teacher somewhere in the sticks.

Mate, you are a fucking moron. You obviously know nothing about music theory or production. I really don't know where to start. First of all claiming that the vocals are off key...where'd you get that from?! The song is in C#m, or a mode of Emajor. So the notes of the scale will be C# D# E F# G# A B. So him singing a D# is not out of key, it's not even chromatic colouration. It's completely diatonic. The vocal melody is thereby adding a 9th on top of the minor triad. What the hell is wrong with that?

 

unless you are just hideously ill informed about wobbly vocals i think you should shut up and stop pretending you know what you're talking about.

 

everyone feel free to call this guy a cunt.

 

and the reverb drowning him out? firstly it's not even reverb. it's a short delay. the vocals are so high in the mix, and the dry signal is so clear i don't see how you could claim they're being drowned out.

 

And the production mistake in the priests verse? how is that a mistake? He starts the begining of the sentence a bit early, probably for dramatic effect, and seeing as the rest of the phrase is perfectly in sync i don't know where you got this idea from.

 

 

First off, mate, before you start calling me a cunt because of some of the things you thought I was criticizing, you should read a little further down. Like I explained a few posts up, the priest line was just something I pointed out, merely pointing out somewhat sarcastically I might add....

 

I also clearly explained, a few times, that the D# was in the key of C#m but that in my opinion it wasn't an intentional choice because of the obviously pronounced E note within the chord. I said it was off key, but I explained later on that I only stated it in that way so people not into music theory could have a somewhat better description as to what I was trying to describe, since trying to talk about music theory completely randomly to someone can be a bit tedious. I apologize that I didn't say it properly the first time but you can clearly see in multiple posts afterwards I was talking about the fact that even though D# is the 2nd note in the C#m scale, he is singing it OVER an E note. E notes, as in, you know, those really prominent powerful notes . Remember, the 3rd note in this chord is flatted (F), you don't sing a double flatted version of the 3rd, like he does here. It's an obvious flaw in the song, get over it. If you are all so experienced in songwriting and theory like you claim, then how come you're so fucking horrible at realizing that singing half a key below one the main notes of the triad is a horrible choice? Please tell me. I Don't mean people don't do it because it's so avant garde and unique, i meant no one does it because it's totally musically illogical and sounds sloppy. If he, for some reason, was singing half a note off on the rest of the chords, then I could see the strange intention behind it...but considering the rest of the song is a typical song format, with no out-of-bounds type of crazy chord changes, and the ENTIRE melody stays within a typical standard pattern, why the hell would I assume that suddenly, completely out of left field, he would decide to sing the 9th over a 3rd?

1) Great post.

 

2) The D# does indeed sound better, as the high E would have sounded a tad too minor when in conjunction with B and C#.

It doesn't sound dissonant as it would if you're playing a C# minor chord and substitute the E. as i said before, Chris only hits the note for so long.

Chris isn't an idiot and Eno is most definitely not an idiot. They both know that E is the second note of the c# chord, but Chris didn't want to sing it.

That is why you hear him sing "roof (C#) TOPS (D#, not E)" in the song.

The note was intended.

 

music theory is very good and helpful, yet extremely awful in so many obvious ways.

 

the E couldn't possibly make the song sound anymore minor, yet somehow the D# wouldnt.

 

lastly, i never said chris or eno were idiots, they just made a poor judgement. you can call it great artistic choice, but if someone forgets to add the extra teaspoons of sugar to a recipe, i'm gonna say it's a mistake, flat out. not, "oooo that cook - he's so clever!"

 

it's really not a big deal, whether or not it was intended. i'm just debating for debating sake... people take it so personally, like i'm throwing their baby into the water. i mean, dont get me wrong, i love music as much as the next guy but calling someone a cunt just because i 'm saying i think he's singing the wrong note is a bit much. (not referring to you, obviously)

 

and if the note was intended, then during the 2nd verse he would do it again, it sounds like he tries to go up but ends up being stuck on the C# note. he was ad-libbing, most likely, and made the mistake of picking the D#, exactly because it's in the scale. it's close enough that it sounds half ok, and because his hand is up so the chord isnt going against it at that exact moment. if he was playing 8ths i doubt he would have sung the d#, it would have sounded too obviously off

yeah

 

first off... i agree with the original poster.

but i wouldn't label them as "mistakes" - more like intentional laziness.

 

i think it's important to realize that the end of the song is perfectly in tune... which means they could have done that the entire time.

 

but the intentional laziness that you pointed out adds to the dirtiness of the track.

i'd like to hear it cleaned up to hear the differences in mood.

my guess is they did clean it up but ultimately decided on this outcome.

 

i also think it's funny how many music theory majors all of a sudden pop out of no where.

don't fool yourselves, people. music theory ALWAYS has a place in music.

I think that they may have purposely had Chris sing just slightly off as far as notes. Sometimes that slight clash is just noticeable enough to the human ear that it creates tension without actually sounding wrong. Ive noticed Coldplay does that sometimes (he sounds just slightly flat during bridge of "Spies", also during live performances of "Politik", hell sing some parts of the verse slightly off). I dont know, I could be completely wrong, but thats just what Ive noticed.

I think you guys need to lay off the OP...it was just his opinion, you do not have to agree with it.

:cowboy:

first off... i agree with the original poster.

but i wouldn't label them as "mistakes" - more like intentional laziness.

 

i think it's important to realize that the end of the song is perfectly in tune... which means they could have done that the entire time.

 

but the intentional laziness that you pointed out adds to the dirtiness of the track.

i'd like to hear it cleaned up to hear the differences in mood.

my guess is they did clean it up but ultimately decided on this outcome.

 

i also think it's funny how many music theory majors all of a sudden pop out of no where.

don't fool yourselves, people. music theory ALWAYS has a place in music.

 

Great post!! I was thinking about making a thread to discuss Chris's 'casual' vocal until I read this. It says it all for me. He sounds less purist and more like Bob Dylan (whom he heavily got into back in '06 when he was writing songs like Bucket For A Crown).

 

There's all kinds of pitch-correcting software out there, and I'm pretty sure Eno knows how to use it if he wants it there.

 

ANd yes, the OP has as much right to say what he wants as any of us, we don't have to agree, but calling him a c**t for making his observations is just rude. (and I do agree with parts of the post.).:)