2 reasons to disagree with the poster:

 

1) He now claims there is an F involved.

2) He also claims that it is 'flatted'. Nice terminology there.

 

I can understand why an untrained ear would think it sounds off, but to someone who apprently knows music theory, it should be easily understood that chromatic colouration is important to changing the chord beyond the standard triad framework, and even notes a semitone apart won't really clash. They add dynamic tension to the chord. If it was a D natural we were talking about then that would be a different matter. At the end of the day it comes down to opinion, what people think sounds right and wrong, but the placement of the 9th is grammatically correct in musical terms. yeah it clashes, but why is that wrong? it isn't. shall we go through miles davis' back catalogue and tick off all the 13ths and flattened fifths just because some baby can't handle advanced harmony? no.

i mean... i think it's cool you notice stuff like this and i respect you for bringing this up. but really... i doubt these are 'mistakes'. briano eno is one of the most accomplished producers of our time... (no offense at all) do you think you know more then him? i mean you could be completely right but idk... this is taking it a LITTLE too far for me...

2 reasons to disagree with the poster:

 

1) He now claims there is an F involved.

2) He also claims that it is 'flatted'. Nice terminology there.

 

I can understand why an untrained ear would think it sounds off, but to someone who apprently knows music theory, it should be easily understood that chromatic colouration is important to changing the chord beyond the standard triad framework, and reven notes a semitone apart won't really clash. They add dynamic tension to the chord. If it was a D natural we were talking about then that would be a different matter. At the end of the day it comes down to opinion, what people think sounds right and wrong, but the placement of the 9th is grammatically correct in musical terms. yeah it clashes, but why is that wrong? it isn't. shall we go through miles davis' back catalogue and tick off all the 13ths and flattened fifths just because some baby can't handle advanced harmony? no.

 

True. Dissonance is one of the must useful tools in music, and its resolution can make the listener's heart ache if done right.

 

Mozart was positively slammed for using devices like that in the slow movement of his basset horn concerto, and it turned out to be ground-breaking. (Not that I'm comparing Chris to Mozart,lol.)

 

And to be fair, I've heard other musicians use the term 'Flatted', mostly bluegrass players for some reason.

Oh, but I do sincerely apologise for using the C word. That was genuinely out of order. I wrote a mini thesis on the harmony in the radiohead song 'sail to the moon', I'd hate to see what you all made of that.

i mean... i think it's cool you notice stuff like this and i respect you for bringing this up. but really... i doubt these are 'mistakes'. briano eno is one of the most accomplished producers of our time... (no offense at all) do you think you know more then him? i mean you could be completely right but idk... this is taking it a LITTLE too far for me...

 

Musicians, especially those who know a little about music theory love picking things like this apart. It's more like sport than discussion,lol. My musician friends and I do it all the time. I wouldn't worry. we're just pains in the butt that way.:lol:

True. Dissonance is one of the must useful tools in music, and its resolution can make the listener's heart ache if done right.

 

Mozart was positively slammed for using devices like that in the slow movement of his basset horn concerto, and it turned out to be ground-breaking. (Not that I'm comparing Chris to Mozart,lol.)

 

And to be fair, I've heard other musicians use the term 'Flatted', mostly bluegrass players for some reason.

 

marry me

Oh, but I do sincerely apologise for using the C word. That was genuinely out of order. I wrote a mini thesis on the harmony in the radiohead song 'sail to the moon', I'd hate to see what you all made of that.

 

HAHAHA! The thread would likely become a butcher shop. I'd love to see that. (the thesis, I mean).

Omg, shut up. Seriously.

2 reasons to disagree with the poster:

 

1) He now claims there is an F involved.

2) He also claims that it is 'flatted'. Nice terminology there.

 

I can understand why an untrained ear would think it sounds off, but to someone who apprently knows music theory, it should be easily understood that chromatic colouration is important to changing the chord beyond the standard triad framework, and even notes a semitone apart won't really clash. They add dynamic tension to the chord. If it was a D natural we were talking about then that would be a different matter. At the end of the day it comes down to opinion, what people think sounds right and wrong, but the placement of the 9th is grammatically correct in musical terms. yeah it clashes, but why is that wrong? it isn't. shall we go through miles davis' back catalogue and tick off all the 13ths and flattened fifths just because some baby can't handle advanced harmony? no.

 

Uhmm yeah, well if you actually knew music theory, then you should know "flatted" is a real term. So thanks on the terminology compliment.

 

See that C# minor chord? Guess how they made up that chord. They FLATTED the third. (Which was originally the F, see how that came in there?). WOW! You now have a minor triad, or a flatted third. Get it yet? And guess how they then made up the C#min add 9th chord. YES -- THEY DOUBLE FLATTED THE THIRD!!! AHHHHHHHH!!!! My brain is going to explode from all this.

As far as I'm concerned, there are no "mistakes" in writing/recording music (unless of course something accidentally turns out differently from what the artist intended). They way the artist writes/records it is just the way it is!

Some of you guys sound like bored pompus jerks. I don't think any of the guys in Coldplay are classically trained.

 

Who gives a crap if it's not the exact notation of the scientific equation of the treble clef..blah blah dee blah blah!

 

Just say you don't like it!

Yes, because the song was actually in C#major wasn't it? C# D# E# F# G# A# B# C#....so they just flatted the 3rd for the hell of it....completely unrelated keys.....oh god I don't even want to start. I'm sorry. you're completely right and all my points are moot. i know nothing about music. all my enthusiasm has been well and truly flattened. FLATTENED?

Some of you guys sound like bored pompus jerks. I don't think any of the guys in Coldplay are classically trained.

 

Who gives a crap if it's not the exact notation of the scientific equation of the treble clef..blah blah dee blah blah!

 

Just say you don't like it!

 

 

totally agreed.

IIRC, Chris does have some classical training. Have to look that up.

 

I just find musical analysis a good mental exercise, so I don't think the debate is pompous. Too bad when it goes to insults though.

 

Kaos. I totally agree. If you want a REAL mistake, listen to the piano in Jealous Again by the Black Crows. THAT's a mistake,lol. (I think it's in the instrumental break after the first verse. It's hard to pick out, but one you hear it, you'll always hear it,lol.)

Some of you guys sound like bored pompus jerks. I don't think any of the guys in Coldplay are classically trained.

 

Who gives a crap if it's not the exact notation of the scientific equation of the treble clef..blah blah dee blah blah!

 

Just say you don't like it!

 

another groupie post...

another groupie post...

 

lol. I've made a bunch so I hear ya!

 

Actually (and no offense to everyone who just loves the song, because I love it too), I appreciate the negative threads because of their analytical qualities. If all we do is jump up and down and say I LOVE IT I LOVE IT it's not really a discussion. I had plenty of SQUEEEEEEEE moments last night and this morning, and now I'm enjoying breaking it down. (It's the curse of being a musician...sometimes it's hard to just take a song at face value and just enjoy it,lol.)

music theory ALWAYS has a place in music.

 

not when you get hung up on one measly note that doesn't even last one second.

in a rock song mind you. that's perfectionism at perhaps its most annoying.

 

this is an awful and tired thread btw

Re theory.

 

My mother's a music teacher and she used to say this: Theory is there so that you can learn the rules of music in order to break them properly.:)

 

Music is all about the numbers, and in that regard, theory can't be avoided. But lots of great music has been made by theory-illiterate musicians.

 

I like it in balance. I don't think about it when I'm writing, but I do when I'm arranging.

ah

 

theory always does have a place because i'd bet...

there was some discussion in the studio whether chris should sing the major 2nd or minor 3rd on top of the C# minor.

we hear the decision they made.

Yes, because the song was actually in C#major wasn't it? C# D# E# F# G# A# B# C#....so they just flatted the 3rd for the hell of it....completely unrelated keys.....oh god I don't even want to start. I'm sorry. you're completely right and all my points are moot. i know nothing about music. all my enthusiasm has been well and truly flattened. FLATTENED?

 

hmmm what are you talking about? im guessing you were just joking about the C# major scale you listed right?

 

havent you ever heard of a minor third before? jesus.

 

whenenver you have ANY major chord, and you FLAT the third (and saying "flatted" IS correct) then you have a minor third. i'm assuming you already know all this....

 

 

so are we really going to argue about something as trivial as that?

 

i wasnt talking about what key we were in, i know we're in the key of C#minor, but all I was saying was that they flatted the third (F, originally) to get to the C#minor chord. then double flatted again to do to the D# note, or the 9th....

 

I'm not saying you were wrong you just tried to say that I was saying an F was in the song, which i didnt mean.

 

to tell you the truth, he's not really in a particular key at all, because right after he goes to the C#min add 9th, then to Amajor then to A aug 4th...so he goes in and out the key,.

theory always does have a place because i'd bet...

there was some discussion in the studio whether chris should sing the major 2nd or minor 3rd on top of the C# minor.

we hear the decision they made.

 

 

 

Agreed.

hmmm what are you talking about? im guessing you were just joking about the C# major scale you listed right?

 

havent you ever heard of a minor third before? jesus.

 

whenenver you have ANY major chord, and you FLAT the third (and saying "flatted" IS correct) then you have a minor third. i'm assuming you already know all this....

 

 

so are we really going to argue about something as trivial as that?

 

i wasnt talking about what key we were in, i know we're in the key of C#minor, but all I was saying was that they flatted the third (F, originally) to get to the C#minor chord. then double flatted again to do to the D# note, or the 9th....

 

I'm not saying you were wrong you just tried to say that I was saying an F was in the song, which i didnt mean.

 

to tell you the truth, he's not really in a particular key at all, because right after he goes to the C#min add 9th, then to Amajor then to A aug 4th...so he goes in and out the key,.

 

We're not in the key of C#minor at all. It's E major.

 

I don't believe augmented 4th is the accepted term. It's more commonly labelled diminished 5th. He doesn't go 'in and out the key' at all. It's all in E. The only things not in key are those descending semitone power chords.

 

There's no double flatting involved. All that's correct is that D# is the double flat of F. Not that F bears any relevance to the song at all. In the case of the song, the D# is the leading note of the scale, so if we were being picky, the argument would be that the D# doesn't resolve up to E in this phrase. But then again, the song doesn't have a tonal centre of E, so why would it need to? Then we'd get into a whole other argument, etc, etc, name calling, etc. Yawn.

 

Oh, and I don't see what's wrong with that C#major scale either, if ya wanna argue about that for a bit? Anyone?

yeah

 

"We're not in the key of C#minor at all. It's E major."

 

no. it's in the key of C# minor.

E major is its relative major... but i don't think anyone could debate this being a major key.

in fact, the only time it hits E is as a passing note in the chorus.

 

it's all C# minor.

another groupie post...

 

Groupie? Because I don't suscribe to a bunch of babble? Then I guess so.

 

If this was classical music, fine.

 

But how can there be "mistakes" in a plain rock/pop song. They sat down, and wrote and sang how it came to them in their head. All these stupid notation logistics shit is nonsense.

 

Chris isn't a vocalist, and he's notorious for singing off-key. This is just funny to me.

Love me, hate me, call me the C word...but we are most definitely in the key of C#minor, which IS the relative minor to Emajor. I would stake my life on this and win.