The announcement was made in Moscow, and many American officials concluded that the Russians had pressured Kyrgyzstan as part of their campaign to reassert ...

 

http://www.moscowvisits.com/biden-says-us-will-pursue-missile-plan-russia-opposes-new-york-times

 

Whoa, I can't handle all the change! Escalating military actions in Afghanistan, talks of attacking Pakistan, more failed stimulus bills....I sometimes forget Bush isn't in office.:laugh3:

This is the Bush administration on steroids. The question is, as the economy gets worse, will the public's support of Obama increase or decrease? If history is any indication it will increase and his policies will become more extreme.

The first one failed....why would the second one work? Too much spending is the problem, how can it be the cure?

I just wish they'd go ahead and get the damn thing passed so we can watch it's effect on the economy. I'm sick of this political bull, like suddenly the Republicans give a sh!t about how much money the federal government spends. :laugh3:

 

Someone should set up a website tracking every dollar and where it goes. This will be a fun experiment, akin to watching a drop of red dye slowly diffuse through a glass of water. I've been waiting for socialism to be put to the test in virtual laboratory conditions.

Jay, I don't think it will hurt the economy as fast as most people do. I really see it causing a false rally for a little while.

Jay, I don't think it will hurt the economy as fast as most people do. I really see it causing a false rally for a little while.

 

I think the effect will be instantly negative, especially on the bond markets. If the stock markets were rallying now, I could understand the belief this will help the economy right away, but they're not. Traders are wary of the spending.

 

Either way it'll be awesome. Like I said above, I feel like I'm back in the Physics lab with my professor setting up an experiment! :P

I think the dollar will take a hit, but not a massive one yet. People under estimate the governments ability to delay and put things off. Thats the one thing I think they can and are going to do. Of course in the long run it'll make things worse and longer to recover but in the short term they're experts in delaying the inevitable.

A quote from prominent economist Robert Barro on the stimulus bill:

 

This is probably the worst bill that has been put forward since the 1930s. I don't know what to say. I mean it's wasting a tremendous amount of money. It has some simplistic theory that I don't think will work, so I don't think the expenditure stuff is going to have the intended effect. I don't think it will expand the economy. And the tax cutting isn't really geared toward incentives. It's not really geared to lowering tax rates; it's more along the lines of throwing money at people. On both sides I think it's garbage. So in terms of balance between [spending and tax relief] it doesn't really matter that much.

 

Source: http://business.theatlantic.com/2009/02/an_interview_with_robert_barro.php

I don't think many people who understand economics believe it will help. BUT the psychological aspect of it will in my opinion cause a false rally.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Stocks-tumble-after-govt-apf-14314444.html

 

Stocks tumble after gov't unveils financial plan

Wall Street plunges as government unveils latest plan to support struggling banking system

 

* Tim Paradis, AP Business Writer

* Tuesday February 10, 2009, 4:10 pm EST

 

* Yahoo! Buzz

* Print

 

NEW YORK (AP) -- Investors are frustrated with the government's latest bank bailout plan -- and showing it by unloading stocks.

 

Financial stocks led the market lower, reflecting Wall Street's growing concerns about the government's ability to restore the health of the banking industry.

 

Traders and investors said the lack of specifics from Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner on how the government would direct more than $1 trillion in public and private support was troubling.

 

The latest plan calls for a government-private sector partnership to help remove banks' soured assets from their books.

 

The Dow Jones industrials are down 382 at 7,889. The Standard & Poor's 500 index is down 42 at 827, and the Nasdaq composite is down 66 at 1,524.

 

Declining stocks were ahead of advancers by about 5 to 1 on the New York Stock Exchange, where volume came to 1.76 billion shares.

 

 

Every time Tim Geithner's mouth opens the market falls or international relations with trade partners become strained. This is like watching a comedy of errors.

 

EDIT: I'm adding a link to another interesting chart, I'm not sure how accurate it is though:

 

http://timeswampland.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/joblosses26091.gif

Still going down...

 

And Obama hasn't even signed the bill into law yet! :D

 

Nick, I wish your "false rally" theory were true so we could at least make a little money from this volatility, but so far it looks like the market has made up its mind!

 

EDIT: And talk of bank nationalization begins in earnest: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2ad3b750-fd27-11dd-a103-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1

 

DOW finishes the day near a ten year low, losing 4% in trading hours. Looks like the market has registered its opinion of the future of America's economy under Obama's stewardship.

 

Obama talks about increasing the number of troops in Afghanistan. +17,000.

 

US Automakers want more taxpayer money - $35 bn.

 

All-in-all, a good day! :rolleyes:

Still going down...

 

And Obama hasn't even signed the bill into law yet! :D

 

Nick, I wish your "false rally" theory were true so we could at least make a little money from this volatility, but so far it looks like the market has made up its mind!

 

EDIT: And talk of bank nationalization begins in earnest: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2ad3b750-fd27-11dd-a103-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1

 

DOW finishes the day near a ten year low, losing 4% in trading hours. Looks like the market has registered its opinion of the future of America's economy under Obama's stewardship.

 

Obama talks about increasing the number of troops in Afghanistan. +17,000.

 

US Automakers want more taxpayer money - $35 bn.

 

All-in-all, a good day! :rolleyes:

 

Have a little faith in inflation and propaganda Jay! I'm still sticking with a false rally sometime this year or at the latest early 2010.

 

Btw have you noticed the 3 PM bounce's?

 

Also before bed last night, I was reading about a massive surge in the dollar and gold during Asian market hours. Apparently there was a massive forced liquidation or something.

 

 

 

Also check this out. I found it on the Economicrot website. http://economicrot.blogspot.com/

 

"Feb 16, 8:17 CT

 

Denninger: I do not know what is going on here, and I don't think I want to.

 

Someone, apparently someone in Asia, wants dollars. A LOT of dollars. There is a forced-liquidation event underway that is massive, it is against all asset classes and it is spreading.

 

It originated at approximately 7:15 CT this evening and originated out of Asia somewhere. All of the primary currency crosses got hit at once - Euro, Pound, Yen - all weakened dramatically against the dollar and it is still going on. The Asian stock markets got walloped at the same time in coordinated waves of forced selling.

 

At the same time the US futures markets got nailed as well, down some six handles on the /ES in a near-vertical drop. While this sounds "not that big" to move these markets in a coordinated fashion like this is a trillion-dollar enterprise - this is not some small company that went bankrupt, or even a large company."

Hm, maybe they know the Fed will raise interest rates soon... or that other currencies are so weak on a relative basis that it makes sense to hold dollars in the short term. Either way it sounds like a trade, not an investment strategy.

Their is so much market manipulation I don't think we'll go under 7,000. But it will definitely get interesting with Eastern Europe in major trouble, Mexico in trouble and trillions of more dollars lost in commercial and prime real estate.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCaUA5l_bYc]YouTube - Moving Beyond the Fake Stimulus: Reviewing Policies that Produce Real Growth[/ame]

Their is so much market manipulation I don't think we'll go under 7,000. But it will definitely get interesting with Eastern Europe in major trouble, Mexico in trouble and trillions of more dollars lost in commercial and prime real estate.

 

You're probably right on this... the government is wary of people getting mad about their evaporating retirement accounts, and you can only place so much blame on the evil capitalists before that little ruse begins to wear thin. So use a little magic dust to prop up the price of stocks to create the illusion of wealth! I imagine our dear leaders probably have contingency plans in place - freezing trading, creating fake buying pressure with offshore funds that appear to be foreign-owned but are in fact financed and operated by the US government...

 

Nick, you sent me on another conspiratorial tangent. I couldn't help myself. It's too easy!

It's a lot of fun, isn't it?

6 Year Low in the DOW!

 

Our GLORIOUS LEADER will surely summon the strength of the Proletariat, combined with the shrewdness of corporate welfare and the tenacity of the printing press... to overcome any perceived weakness America might have!

 

In fact, it would not surprise me if this was just a trick, to fool America's enemies into believing we are unfit to fight! Their comeuppance will be swift!

Jay watch this video from CNBC

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEZB4taSEoA]YouTube - Rick Santelli and the "Rant of the Year"[/ame]

It seems that the underlying problem is simply the money which has flowed from the least scrupulous businesses and groups, into the politician's pockets, and the resulting deregulation and favoritism through legislation caused more of the same in a sort of "rush to the gate" to get in on the deals. Now things have gone to the point where the cards have begun to fold in upon themselves, and there's an effort to slow or stop that process; it still belies the fact that it's a house of cards.

And giant corporations become bureaucracies unto themselves, almost like quasi states.. Hmm.. and the call for reform in campaign finance is fizzing or fizzled?

What would it take to remove the corrupt justices from the Supreme Court; those who decided the Supreme Court had the right to decide the election for Bush in 2000?... and I'm betting those same justices are obstructing the needed reforms in the campaign finance system, to the delight of Wall Street's most unscrupulous actors, and the dismay of the rest of the country. I'm heading over to look at how Justice John Paul Stevens voted, and what his opinion was in the cases regarding campaign finance. Something tells me we need to make it clear that we have the right to fair elections - meaning a fair process to candidate races, or else these pseudo-conservative political actors will continue to gum up the process of reform. In the end, even the economy cannot escape the graft which has taken hold.

Rick Santelli is my hero!

 

I loved that guy even before I knew he was a libertarian. I've never seen someone get so excited about something as mundane as Treasury bonds! :laugh3:

I want to attend the Tea party if it happens.

I want to attend the Tea party if it happens.

 

Dude we should totally go! We could get it sponsored by Adagio.com and the Mises Institute for Children Who Can't Read Good and Who Want to Learn to Do Other Stuff Good Too.

Nick, I'm sure you're gonna love this as much as I did:

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmKHUUkhkzM]YouTube - White House Press Secretary Defiles The Office of The President[/ame]