July 13, 200917 yr I'm not sure that I like the idea we are having a political conversation with the premise of punching someone in the face, though :rolleyes: that's a bit too harsh
July 13, 200917 yr you got my vote :wacky: I think the whole point of his speech was that he DOESN'T want your vote, lol. I'm not sure that I like the idea we are having a political conversation with the premise of punching someone in the face, though :rolleyes: that's a bit too harsh Yea, I told myself next time I got back into coldplaying I wouldn't say anything political...but look what we have here.
July 13, 200917 yr I think the whole point of his speech was that he DOESN'T want your vote, lol. duh :wacky: that's why I said it Yea, I told myself next time I got back into coldplaying I wouldn't say anything political...but look what we have here. me too..... I had several discussions on another forum....... But it ended up that some people were very cruel with their opinions....... That's the reason I started posting here, actually........ I don't think it will be long until I stop posting here and find another forum again.......
July 13, 200917 yr Meh, there will always be brainwashed people no matter where you go. You just have to learn how to move past it and not hold it against them. If you hate people who don't think for themselves you won't find very many friends in the world. :)
July 13, 200917 yr I'm not sure that I like the idea we are having a political conversation with the premise of punching someone in the face, though :rolleyes: that's a bit too harsh Then you are an anarchist! Because you don't believe in the use of force, and government is force. It requires force to extract tax dollars.
July 13, 200917 yr Jay will convince you to become an Anarchist if you talk to him long enough. Don't do it, it'll just make you look at society in a more sad, depressing way.
July 13, 200917 yr Meh, there will always be brainwashed people no matter where you go. You just have to learn how to move past it and not hold it against them. If you hate people who don't think for themselves you won't find very many friends in the world. :) I totally agree... It is the very mean and blind people who spoil it. I must admit though, I have met someone on the forum who will remain nameless, who I was VERY surprised that they go against the flow. It is a very intelligent person, but I was STILL surprised that they did not simply accept the blanket beliefs that others around them share. It is SO amazing to me to find such a rarity... If there is always just one of those out of 100, it is totally worth the pain of ignoring everyone else.... But we need to protect ourselves from those people who refuse to see reality. Believe me, there is a difference between a differing of opinions and blind acceptance. I love people who disagree with me who hold their beliefs because they have looked at both sides of the coin, and they are willing to listen and debate. But I refuse to be friends with anyone who accepts their beliefs based on a one-sided coin. There are people on both sides of any issue who are this way. I believe in God, and I am disgusted with people who refuse to believe in Science. They are the flat earthers. I also hate when people criticize Bush and Obama based on rumors or trivialities. I respect both of them.
July 13, 200917 yr Then you are an anarchist! Because you don't believe in the use of force, and government is force. It requires force to extract tax dollars. I do believe in the use of force, but I don't like the premise to be force :P Sometimes, people are good and it's not needed :P
July 13, 200917 yr I totally agree... It is the very mean and blind people who spoil it. I must admit though, I have met someone on the forum who will remain nameless, who I was VERY surprised that they go against the flow. It is a very intelligent person, but I was STILL surprised that they did not simply accept the blanket beliefs that others around them share. It is SO amazing to me to find such a rarity... If there is always just one of those out of 100, it is totally worth the pain of ignoring everyone else.... But we need to protect ourselves from those people who refuse to see reality. Believe me, there is a difference between a differing of opinions and blind acceptance. I love people who disagree with me who hold their beliefs because they have looked at both sides of the coin, and they are willing to listen and debate. But I refuse to be friends with anyone who accepts their beliefs based on a one-sided coin. There are people on both sides of any issue who are this way. I believe in God, and I am disgusted with people who refuse to believe in Science. They are the flat earthers. I also hate when people criticize Bush and Obama based on rumors or trivialities. I respect both of them. I could have finished those thoughts, but this was getting too long....... :uhoh: don't know if anyone will reply
July 13, 200917 yr I think I'm going to start a new thread with a different premise.... I don't want to take away from this thread too much... maybe not today
July 13, 200917 yr I totally agree... It is the very mean and blind people who spoil it. I must admit though, I have met someone on the forum who will remain nameless, who I was VERY surprised that they go against the flow. It is a very intelligent person, but I was STILL surprised that they did not simply accept the blanket beliefs that others around them share. It is SO amazing to me to find such a rarity... If there is always just one of those out of 100, it is totally worth the pain of ignoring everyone else.... But we need to protect ourselves from those people who refuse to see reality. Believe me, there is a difference between a differing of opinions and blind acceptance. I love people who disagree with me who hold their beliefs because they have looked at both sides of the coin, and they are willing to listen and debate. But I refuse to be friends with anyone who accepts their beliefs based on a one-sided coin. There are people on both sides of any issue who are this way. I believe in God, and I am disgusted with people who refuse to believe in Science. They are the flat earthers. I also hate when people criticize Bush and Obama based on rumors or trivialities. I respect both of them. Yep, every once in a while I come across that rare bird who actually knows what they're talking about, aside from what CNN and MSNBC tells them, and I have the utmost respect for them.
July 13, 200917 yr Yep, every once in a while I come across that rare bird who actually knows what they're talking about, aside from what CNN and MSNBC tells them, and I have the utmost respect for them. I don't think anyone watches MSNBC anymore :lol: "I can feel a tingle up my leg" ......... seriously........ :lol:
July 13, 200917 yr The reason I believe in the use of force is because when it is used properly and with respect for each other, it reduces violence. Violence under control reduces violence out of control. And I think that can be applied to a lot of things. Drug use under control reduces drug use out of control... I actually think more than marijuana should be legal, and that the age of drinking should be lowered, but controlled differently. When the premise for drug use is that it's illegal, it gets more abused. But when the premise is that Abuse is illegal, things change.
July 13, 200917 yr :clap: :selfsupport: :ignoresléoðwyrhta: :léoðwyrhtawonthaveanymorefriendverysoon: :P
July 13, 200917 yr The reason I believe in the use of force is because when it is used properly and with respect for each other, it reduces violence. Violence under control reduces violence out of control. And I think that can be applied to a lot of things. Drug use under control reduces drug use out of control... I actually think more than marijuana should be legal, and that the age of drinking should be lowered, but controlled differently. When the premise for drug use is that it's illegal, it gets more abused. But when the premise is that Abuse is illegal, things change. Laws reduce violence? Oh boy... Take it away Jay!
July 13, 200917 yr The reason I believe in the use of force is because when it is used properly and with respect for each other, it reduces violence. Violence under control reduces violence out of control. Violence reduces violence? Just because something bad is institutionalized and made burocratic doesn't mean it is suddenly respectful. And the violence in a government system isn't "under control" by any stretch of the imagination. Indeed, it is focused and magnified to the point that it caused the deaths of hundreds of millions in the 20th century alone. Government is the most dangerous thing in the world. It's caused more deaths than robbers, serial killers, and bears combined. But we just assume it's necessary, without really thinking of alternatives. We still believe in this Hobbesian notion that humanity is doomed to cannibalize itself in chaos if it weren't for the benevolence of government... which, ironically, is an institution comprised of humans! EDIT: My whole point here is that a natural society is the most peaceful. Government isn't "natural", it's imposed on us by psychopaths. After all, anybody who'd kidnap and lock someone up for smoking marijuana or not paying taxes is a psychopath. Of course, they don't do it themselves. They've got this hired group of thugs called "police" to do all the dirty work for them. So in a natural society, all interactions are voluntary, and violence is only used when someone gets out of control (ie attacks you or your property). But even then, it's never institutionalized. We can't all agree on when it's appropriate to use violence in every situation, but we can all agree that we should each have a say as to when it's doled out in our own defense.
July 13, 200917 yr Violence reduces violence? Just because something bad is institutionalized and made burocratic doesn't mean it is suddenly respectful. And the violence in a government system isn't "under control" by any stretch of the imagination. Indeed, it is focused and magnified to the point that it caused the deaths of hundreds of millions in the 20th century alone. Government is the most dangerous thing in the world. It's caused more deaths than robbers, serial killers, and bears combined. Well, if someone is going to kill hundreds of people, and you shoot them, aren't you reducing violence? Killing one is less than killing 100. That's just math. I don't know that government is necessary, but moral rule is in order for there to be less violence. I don't always believe someone should be institutionalized. I certainly don't believe that fines should be used as punishment at all, it's ridiculous... If someone makes a habit of stealing, we should chop off their hand. If someone murders someone, they should either be killed, or become incapable, like to chop off their arms.... I know that sounds cruel.... But murder is more cruel in my opinion. I won't say that I know what I just said is the ideal solution, just the best I can come up with in my opinion. But we just assume it's necessary, without really thinking of alternatives. Believe me, I think of alternatives every day. I agree that many people don't... And I'm still yet to conclude what a government should be today. I think it should be minimal, give the good guys the guns... But no one should have too much power. I only think that anarchy could work in a perfect world, where people are not going to abuse their freedom to harm others. We still believe in this Hobbesian notion that humanity is doomed to cannibalize itself in chaos if it weren't for the benevolence of government... which, ironically, is an institution comprised of humans! Hobbs and Locke both went too far, if I remember this right... In my opinion, might is not right, nor will we become a bunch of cannibals, without rule of law. Societies vary, some will be extremely evil, and some will be better. There's no one answer telling what government will work for all societies. I believe our founding was inspired, because God wants us to have what we choose while we are alive. Now that we have had the same government for a long time, it like a cancer has grown too far. I agree with you in the sense that government is a cancer, every kind of government. It destroys a lot of good things. But do you believe anarchy is the true solution? Don't we need a little bit of rule in our world? We need a LIMIT to our government. With anarchy, we surely would not be cannibals, but there would be no punishment for crimes... Whew......... I'm sorry it's taken me this long....... I've edited over and over...... maybe there are 100 pages now........
July 13, 200917 yr One thing is for certain... Our government has grown too large. And I believe Thomas Jefferson said that "Every generation needs a new revolution." There's no doubt that if revolution happens again, it will be bloody, because there is too much power on capitol hill. I'm not joining a militia yet, because I think we're years away.... It will take a huge spark to set it off, like something similar to what happened in Honduras.
July 13, 200917 yr Oh, I think the best thing to look at could be your children, or someone else's children....... When you hear a child yelling and screaming and the parent is doing nothing....... sometimes that makes it worse....... There is the opposite too....... When a parent is way too mean, it makes things worse........ But then there are parents who allow their children to make mistakes, but they are also firm with a few rules, and they are consistent and strict when it is needed, and patient when it is needed. That would be the perfect government.... It is what it needs to be... Which is neither totalitarian, nor anarchist
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