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Response to Crystal: The problem with Religion and Faith is that it's based on Assumptions, for example: A.God created the sun B.Satan rules the earth C.God has a plan for all of us D.God turned water into wine The second you begin any discussion without proving example points A,B,C,D..everything stands on shaky ground. Sure you can bring out your Ace in the deck with faith but that's where you stop. Earlier, you mentioned how we can't see air going through our lungs and how you compare that with the existance of God. The flaw in your air theory is that 1. You can scientifically measure air in your body, hospitals do it all the time (You can't measure God in any way) 2. You can see the air you breathe out in cold atmospheres (You can't see God) 3. You can feel the air you breathe in (You can't feel God) I give you facts and examples how air exists through our human senses, You can't do any of these things with God...everything is explained by faith which in a logical world based on laws can't hold water. You tell me you read the book of Daniel, and I challenge you to tell me 1 thing that proves beyond a doubt that it was forseen. I want a date and all the details involved, nothing vague. Your belief that events that happen now have been predicted in the past shows how you have been, shall I say "brainwashed" to think these events have been forseen. Honestly, if the book of Daniel was truly a catalog of things that happend and will happen there would be nothing to ponder, we would all believe in Bible and therefore God. Now that we got that out of the way, let me ask you this question? Do you really believe in these miracles of faith? How about walking on liquid water? Peter reportedly was able to do so by faith (Matt. 14). How about casting a mountain into the sea, which Jesus specifically said those with faith can do (Matt. 21:21)? It would probably not be a good idea to test whether people can consume deadly poison, even though Jesus specifically promised that such a thing could be done (Mark 16:18). A better trick would be to raise the dead, which Jesus said was permitted, and he commanded his disciples to do it (Matt. 10:8). Look deep in yourself and ask yourself can these things really happen? My guess is that these are stories and people believe these things just as kids believe in Santa Claus. Of course my intention is not to sway you in any way, just expressing my view. I just want people to think with thier head and not be tunnel visioned by the masses and to ask logical questions. I have faith about lots of things. I have faith that objects fall down and the sun will come up tomorrow. Proof should support faith, not require faith to support it.

Re: If you could take music by only 2 groups to a desert Isl I would take 2 groups that were perficient in building boats so I can get my ass out of there.

pathetic...who says it fell out of the sky? \\\ It's in the bible. "As the white glistening snowflakes fall, my eyes do behold the bread of heaven falling as manna in the wilderness. White, White, Bread of Heaven " How is it that our bodies work in the perfect way they do? How is it that even our hands are built in a way that, the lengths of our fingers are precisely place to grab things..any things? And our eyes see color, and color exists to begin with? How is it that all of our cells just KNOW what to do with out our telling them? Or how something as seemingly small as dirt gives nutrience to a plant? That in itself is a miracle to me. Scientists have studied these things for ages and are still discovering these "miracles". \\\ Yes, these things you mentioned above is amazing but that still does not prove there is a God. You think that fingers, our cells are designed by God? What about Cancer, Sudden Infant Disease... is that God's design as well? The truth is, nobody knows how life started and the qwest for the answer will always be ongoing. In the beggining, many things in life that COULDN'T be explained was said to be God's work. As time goes by more and more things are being explained scientifically while things that were once taken as faith to be religious events are being shown to have scientific answers. At one point in time people thought that lightning was mystical and thunder was the anger of the gods.... you would be a fool to believe so today. How can one's faith in something predicate actual scientific proof. Our bodies, plants, nature..all amazing designs...but in the end it still does NOT prove there is a God. So you see, if he has made our bodies and the functions of all life so perfect and precise to work on their own...surely he could split the sea or make a little bread turn into a lot. Those seem alot more simple miracles than the way our bodies work or the atmosphere or the heavens with plantes revolving at such a way that we are not burned by the sun, but are not frozen either. ///// Again, how do you know for sure "He" is responsible for our bodies and functions? Where is your proof. Yet they can't really prove that God does or does not exist. I cannot either. But there's this thing called faith. I have faith that God is my creator and the creator of all things dwelling on this planet. Based on what I have read in the bible. //// I respect that you have Faith in something that can't be seen or touched and many people choose to do that. Your faith though still does not prove anything other than your belief. If it helps you in life to believe he is looking down at you, that's great, but my common sense brings up too many questions, so I have to question it. Plus, if you are more of a historian, then surely you can see that the prophesies in the bible are precise enough and have come true (most of them anyway). That there are events in histroy that were predicted hundreds and hundreds of years in advance. //// Since the beggining of man, there has always been natural disasters and war, nothing new there. I would be impressed if there were actual dates, but you will never see that. Nostradamus for example, people swear that he predicted the future in various times. Fact is, people will see what they want to see. " Look at the stars, doesn't that part look like a dog? Oh Yes, it kinda does!" It's the power of suggestion. The human mind is easily swayed and molded, ask questions and really be informed before making a life long commitment.

Now, THAT'S what I call news, thank you!

The thought that we are the only existance in a universe that seperates us between a few billion light years is ignorant. The chances of life on other planets is very good. Now if only they knew how to break the speed of light they may get the chance to say hi...hopefully a nice hi.

I haven't read the whole thread a well but I will give you my point of view. One, I can't prove to you that there is God, but you can't prove to me that he exists either, so there's the problem and the reason why I'm an agnostic. I was raised in a christian environment and went to bible study. I was in a room where we (kids) were expected to say yes to everything they taught. They spoke words as they were facts but to me it felt like a grown up version of a fairy tail, so I started asking questions. Did bread really fall from the sky? How did the sea really split...seriously? He has a plan for everybody? I quickly came to the realization that there is a bigger picture at hand and it had nothing to do with a "god". I found that RELIGION should of been named TRADITION. If your Catholic, chances are your parents are Catholic, if your a witness, chances are your parents are Witnesses. Every religion swearing by it. Churches are businesses like any other business collecting money through systems of thier own just like any business. What makes us believe? Is it the fear of going to hell? Is it the pressure of family and peers? Is it becuase we choose to go along with the mass perception. I am not bound by any of these and dare to ask questions. The orginal question of this thread is would he hate gays, I think the question, "Do we even know that God exists" should be a definate answer before we can go on to the next.

What really gets me is all the kids wearing this shirt. Ask them to name 3 songs from them and can't.

Black Eyed Peas bug the crap out of me.

Agree 100%

Welcome Jordan and watch for the new Keane album.

Thought it would be great to find out what 5 songs make you feel the most "emotional". I guess emotional doesn't have to be depressing, but I like depressing music. Here is my top 7 emotional songs at the moment in no particular order. 1. Tiny Vessels - Death Cab For Cutie / Transatlanticism 2. Out of Nothing - Embrace / Out of Nothing 3. Chances- Athlete / Tourist 4. See You Soon - Coldplay / Live 2003 5. Stay (Faraway, So Close!) - U2 / Zooropa 6. Try Again - Keane / 02 Live 7. Svefn-g-englar - Sigur Ros / A Byrjun

Thanks!

Just bought the DVD last night at Best Buy. The whole thing was really good with awesome concert footage. There's a song on there called "Try Again" (practice) that is amazing. The DVD is long, it runs at 193min. Highly recommend it.

I predict the new Keane album to blow away X&Y. I'm not sure the powerhouses "Fix You" and "What if" will hold it together.

They are not gay, hobbits more like it but damn do they create awesome music.

They basically said it was going to be dark and depressing which is perfect. I like depressing music.

Yes....you can sit on my lap again son, so I can tell you a story.

Thank you very much!!!

So basically...your no fun.