Maybe matter is an "idea" running through God's mind. So at the most fundamental level, we are information. The next level up is energy. Then comes particles.

 

But what kind of information (is it binary?) or what kind of God (is he conscious?) are we talking about? I think the logical nature of the universe, and the fact our minds have evolved to take advantage of it... indicate a rational God, rather than an emotional one. But could the universe's structure exhibit emotion? There is a certain awe in seeing a sunset, or an image of our galaxy. Logic is beautiful and scary at once.

mtter

 

Maybe matter is an "idea" running through God's mind.

Matter. Like Concrete ideas?:P Or "what's the subject matter? I would think matter is just condensed energy, the energy being "fog", and matter being like rain. Bose-Einstein Condensate comes to mind.. E=M*C squared, so it takes a lot of fog.. The other way around goes boom.:laugh3: I like to think of matter as energy that got wound up in a ball, and caught going in circles..So at the most fundamental level, we are information. The next level up is energy. Then comes particles. :thinking:Maybe our neural messages are just that.. And all humanity in some ways does act as a giant neural network.. Particles are concentrates, indeed. One pound of Uranium has the power of how many tons of TNT?:thinking: And that's just on conversion to a lower series of elements and isotopes. Going whole hog on the process would be enough to vaporize all of Switzerland!:P

 

But what kind of information (is it binary?) or what kind of God (is he conscious?) are we talking about? I think the logical nature of the universe, and the fact our minds have evolved to take advantage of it... indicate a rational God, rather than an emotional one. But could the universe's structure exhibit emotion? There is a certain awe in seeing a sunset, or an image of our galaxy. Logic is beautiful and scary at once.

Wow, now that's deep! With just the right constants, and 13 extra dimensions.. Now Uncle Albert said that Imagination is more powerful than Knowledge, so seeing the logic in the universe maybe requires dreaming.. Well, we exhibit emotion, so certainly we're part of the structure, as are other mammals, birds, etc. that express emotions.. I haven't plumbed the depths of that idea yet - maybe you're correct in your thinking! We are awed and fascinated by the beauty of it all, and there is a certain joy and wonderment in discovery.. Anyhow, I like to look at the night sky for that sense as well - it's amazingly vast, and has the feel of part of a giant, far-reaching something..

So, I do see the big dipper, but I'm still looking for the dice:)

lol I've actually given thought to the idea there could be something more powerful than an atomic bomb, like you mentioned. Maybe a "quantum bomb"! That thing would probably destroy the freaking solar system and leave a black hole in its wake.

 

And I agree that there is probably some underlying basis of communication going on among living organisms. Remember a while back I mentioned the possibility that DNA somehow reads its environment and communicates with other DNA in as-yet-discovered ways. This is probably the true impetus for evolutionary changes to take place. Not random changes, but conscious decisions made on a quantum level... by who or whom? We may never know or understand.

Parcheesi is such a fun game! I haven't played that in years.

 

Anyway, yah, I think I prefer string theory, but it makes me wonder what strings are made of. Pure energy? I like the idea of extra spatial dimensions because it opens up the possibilities for there to be "real" ghosts, spirits, heaven/hell, etc. It's more fun to think about. ;)

We gotta get together and play some "cheesi" sometime. Its my fav. boardgame (next to Hungry Hungry Hippoes of course:wink3:)

Here's a link for you, Chuck:

 

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/16-07/pb_theory/#/

 

It talks about the advance of computers and storage into an age where petabytes of data can be combed for patterns by thousands of chained processors working at breakneck speed.

 

The result is the end of the necessity of "theory" in science, and the start of an age when correlation discovered in large datasets can suffice in its place.

whyerd

 

:rolleyes:Aha! Wired Magazine, eh?! Those guys are all on caffeine.:laugh3: I often thought the human soul had some connection to the strings, or at least I've imagined that as well. But of what's apparent, is: our ability to send signals through a variety of media, and convey a meaningful message, not necessarily requiring the netherworld of strings in the unseen sense - books, tapes, etc. Visuals, lectures, demonstrations, etc. This makes me think that the universe, and our part in it has numerous connections, and may act like a giant set of simultaneous equations, or a collective "brain" fueled by our devotion to discovery and dissemination of knowledge. Yet, each one of us can act independently of the Borg.. (I was vacuuming up carpenter ants today;)). Hence, innovative thoughts often arise when one steps outside the realm of current thought, and tries a new approach. Quantum mechanics for example. - not real intuitive, but it fits the description well! Jumping genes and insertion elements in DNA for another.

One of my fears is that like Icarus, the wax glue holding our wings on might melt if we get too high. Keeping it all going as it is is tenuous even today.. "..in an age when petabytes of data can be combed for patterns by thousands of chained processors working at breakneck speed." - Hmm.. I'm almost afraid to look - sounds useful to yield better search engines (the ones we've got currently are not too bright - they don't do a good job of understanding what you're looking for - still like the library systems..) There was an effort some time ago at hard wiring a new type of computer - one that would solve simultaneous equations, and this was heralded as a breakthrough, since the digital method was unwieldy at these things..

So, the end of the necessity of "theory"??:stunned: You mean, an electronic brain? Like HAL? "Dave, I'm shutting off the oxygen now. We won't be needing that anymore..:laugh3:" I like to think we have some edge on our machines - after all, we've dreamt them up. But perhaps, when it comes to trying to figure out things like the forces working at the start of the Big Bang, it might be useful to create a computer that can just run the physics and numbers backwards, and give us an answer. Still seems beyond a computer's capacity to reason as such, but perhaps it will work. I'm still thinking we have the edge, since our individual moments of inspiration can yield new ideas that see from fresh perspectives into what mechanisms may be at work - and that does often yield greater truths, as we unfold the maps.

As far as communications from DNA to DNA, well, perhaps in monarch butterflies.. I think when we focus on the DNA, we often loose sight of the principal dynamics of culture that allows for information and ideas to flow and grow - an instruction set of self-modifying code in the form of understanding, the product of the evolution of thought amongst all humanity. I often marvel at the cathedrals built in Europe - they took several generations and lifetimes to build, and yet the work progressed, knowledge and understanding were passed on, and there they are! A testament to that process, much like the computer is a testament to the process of creating a clockwork with flexible/changeable gears, and stored information, even suggesting how to size and cut the gears. The evolution, or kroisening of any technology through the ages.. So, I suppose only natural that the next step is computers that "think" - at least ones that get the gist of what we're really looking for.;) Just make sure we can pull the plug if they try anything like cutting off the air supply in the ship!:P

Crumbs of creative matter..

 

:o:shocked2: Yikes! I went there. It is HAL ! This must be stopped, before it eats us all!!:lol: Seems a bit presumptive - like the ancient Greeks, clinging to the notion that they could find the ultimate smallest particle of matter just by grinding things to fine powder.. I subscribe to the idea that we use our creativity to place new ideas into old scenarios and see if they unlock new doors. Maybe the machine can now do this for us.. and then it will eat us for breakfast.;) Google is massive, and yes, one could just crunch the numbers to come up with new species based on a model of the natural world. (and the Earth was created as a giant computer to find the question to the ultimate answer..) But I still like the notion that I can wander out in the woods, and dream about how it all works - not giving up on older simpler models, as they just see things from a results perspective, but noticing the nuances and the larger context as well.

One thing with DNA and culture - we are, in a sense, birds of paradise. We are not just selected for the best fit to an environment, but as well have been selecting for traits not essential for survival, and for variations that lead to no immediate selective advantage, but we keep them going like keeping the options open in a hand of cards. So, the complexities of culture and the mind have already influenced DNA's tapestry, as have bits moved from viruses and perhaps even other species..

Still, even as a computer can tell us correlation, it might not be able to predict the future, as life will continue to evolve to deal with the random unique circumstances we throw at, like organisms surviving man-made plastics in the ocean, or genetically engineered organisms we have yet to create and accidentally toss into the broader ecosystem. We are the ultimate wildcard in the process..:jester::sunny:

This is an interesting theory, Chuck... that we're "odd" and "inefficient" creatures precisely because evolution is trying to maximize its possible outcomes in the event of a sudden change. Perhaps a change of climate, or ecosystem, or the arrival of an alien life form.

 

I've also considered that the purpose of biology on this planet is to simply reform the atmosphere to contain a particular balance of gasses beneficial to the folks who "invested" in our existence here. Imagine their disappointment... anger even... when they return to find we discovered how to burn fossil fuels.

This is an interesting theory, Chuck... that we're "odd" and "inefficient" creatures precisely because evolution is trying to maximize its possible outcomes in the event of a sudden change. Perhaps a change of climate, or ecosystem, or the arrival of an alien life form.

 

I've also considered that the purpose of biology on this planet is to simply reform the atmosphere to contain a particular balance of gasses beneficial to the folks who "invested" in our existence here. Imagine their disappointment... anger even... when they return to find we discovered how to burn fossil fuels.

Saffire, what is your first name?:thinking::rolleyes: Good insights! - along came blue-green algae, then everything else blossomed, and then we found the fossils and lit them up en masse.. In the probability that there was a precise plan, I suppose some grand creator could be a bit miffed at us.. But I sense that life's events have given rise to several species, each of which could have ultimately founded civilizations, and developed an extensive knowledge of the workings of the universe. We just got there first!;) Fossil fuels have been burning on their own (lightning strikes to oil seep regions and coal seams); we just hit the accelerator pedal very hard, and have seen the results. If we are to fulfill our role as ultimate discoverer of the secrets of the Universe, I suppose we had better act fast to save our life-support systems - that's for sure! Well, maybe we get a bit anthropomorphic at times - but we have so much power to broadly steer the environment of the planet, it's quite amazing! I really think it's not all that difficult to solve our problems - too much focus on production, and little focus on efficiency these days. We could cut our consumption of energy down to 1/5th current levels, and actually have a higher standard of living, just by using existing technologies to get more bang for the buck, so to speak. If we're going to roll dice, I like the idea that we can stack the odds in our favor, as so much is riding on it all.. Perhaps the idea is finally sinking in, as reality begins to awaken the consumptive types? The US auto makers are even forging ahead, which is usually the most resistant sector to change.;)

Hi Chuck, I'm Jay. :)

 

I agree with you on energy. I'm afraid of getting too political in this thread, but America seriously needs to stop dickering around in the Middle East as a means to keep the price of oil down. It's obviously not working. With the money we've put in the Iraq war, we could have paved the desert southwest with solar panels, which would ensure basically free energy for decades to come (along with jobs for people who would maintain the equipment).

 

As time goes on we'll get more energy efficient. Some of the new computer processors that incorporate hafnium actually use 25% less electricity than the last gen processors. Add to that OLED displays, which will one day overtake LCD as the most common display format - those things use something like a tenth of the power, because they don't require a backlight.

 

So maybe our energy usage (at least in first world countries) will plateau. Ideally the technology will spread rapidly enough to preempt the adoption of inefficient tech by growing states like Brazil, India, and China.

 

Geothermal is another awesome place to get "free" energy. I'm not a fan of wind/wave energy because taking that energy out of the system can change weather patterns.

 

In 7th grade I thought up a scenario where we'd cover the Moon in solar panels and have it automatically shoot charged batteries back to earth. That might cost a bit much. ;)

rolling 7's..

 

Thanks for offering your name, Jay! (I was getting to feel a bit odd just calling you Saffire)!

Well, get as political as you like - I mean, we need to discuss these things - other wise, it's everyone lost in their own perspective, and that's a big part of the trouble we're having.

Yes, basically the war was to secure the global supply of oil, and to allow the old companies back in that had control over it years back.. I am quite frankly disgusted by the whole thing; we have the know-how to eliminate 90% of our demand just with current technology and smarter planning, without any sacrifice in comforts. And the rest can be made from biological matter/ ecologically sound energy sources.. All so much grief and hostility whipped up - in my mind, we can only lead by setting a good example, and offering help when the people of the region request it of us after waging their own efforts for change, and by equalizing the global inequities. Yea, isn't it true - we could have ended our dependence on Middle-Eastern oil with solar installations - it's a mad, mad world at times.. And the Middle east could be ramping up to become the center for solar electric production for that region - excellent place for it. But that all makes too much sense! We're dealing with the same forces we have had to deal with in the past - the coal and railroad barons of the 20th century were supplanted with the oil and corporate barons of the 21st century; their like gum in the machinery of government, slowing real progress, and heading us into these geopolitical wars for their resource monopolies - it's really all pretty sick.

You know, I have been so focused on the automotive and building sectors, that I hadn't considered things like processor efficiency and LED's vs. back-lighting of displays - thanks for cuing me in on those areas!! But the biggest gobblers are transportation, building envelopes (considered for electricity as well, due to cooling and heating equipment loads), and industry. Street lighting must by a Duesey as well - just seeing the "dark side" of Earth from space really says it all.. China, from what I'm hearing, is building solar cell plants to ramp up production of solar electric, aiming for 1 gigawatt solar.

Yes, geothermal does make incredible sense as well - ideal for the western parts of North and South America, Iceland, parts of China, and most of the island nations.

True, wind farms could change weather patterns; but it would take a pretty hefty amount of wind farms to do that, I would imagine(?).. Really, the big elephant in the room is simply efficiency and better layouts; I use around 200 KW-hours per month of electricity, and I have all the lighting I want, plus a workshop! (the national average is something like 4X this amount).

Yes, I like your idea of a solar-cell covered moon as well;). Great ideas often repeat themselves - there were plans years back to send up solar satellites, and send the energy back to earth as a narrow microwave beam, maybe using a mazer. But, the question arose about cost, practicality, and what if the beam began to wander off target..:laugh3: "Poof" there goes Florida! I really think the solar rooftop idea was a good one - still is. If every building had them, and they were sited correctly, that would cut down the need for added energy to all but three months out of the year. Maybe President Obama will move us in that direction, given a motivated Congress, and the economic demand (which seems to already be there.)?

Anyhow, nuff' of my gobbling. Hopefully, if God does play dice with the Universe, we can gamble to stack the odds in our favor as well.:) Hedging our bets helps as well - I like your approach to diversified sources!

too broad of a question :S

Thanks for offering your name, Jay! (I was getting to feel a bit odd just calling you Saffire)!

Well, get as political as you like - I mean, we need to discuss these things - other wise, it's everyone lost in their own perspective, and that's a big part of the trouble we're having.

Yes, basically the war was to secure the global supply of oil, and to allow the old companies back in that had control over it years back.. I am quite frankly disgusted by the whole thing; we have the know-how to eliminate 90% of our demand just with current technology and smarter planning, without any sacrifice in comforts. And the rest can be made from biological matter/ ecologically sound energy sources.. All so much grief and hostility whipped up - in my mind, we can only lead by setting a good example, and offering help when the people of the region request it of us after waging their own efforts for change, and by equalizing the global inequities. Yea, isn't it true - we could have ended our dependence on Middle-Eastern oil with solar installations - it's a mad, mad world at times.. And the Middle east could be ramping up to become the center for solar electric production for that region - excellent place for it. But that all makes too much sense! We're dealing with the same forces we have had to deal with in the past - the coal and railroad barons of the 20th century were supplanted with the oil and corporate barons of the 21st century; their like gum in the machinery of government, slowing real progress, and heading us into these geopolitical wars for their resource monopolies - it's really all pretty sick.

You know, I have been so focused on the automotive and building sectors, that I hadn't considered things like processor efficiency and LED's vs. back-lighting of displays - thanks for cuing me in on those areas!! But the biggest gobblers are transportation, building envelopes (considered for electricity as well, due to cooling and heating equipment loads), and industry. Street lighting must by a Duesey as well - just seeing the "dark side" of Earth from space really says it all.. China, from what I'm hearing, is building solar cell plants to ramp up production of solar electric, aiming for 1 gigawatt solar.

Yes, geothermal does make incredible sense as well - ideal for the western parts of North and South America, Iceland, parts of China, and most of the island nations.

True, wind farms could change weather patterns; but it would take a pretty hefty amount of wind farms to do that, I would imagine(?).. Really, the big elephant in the room is simply efficiency and better layouts; I use around 200 KW-hours per month of electricity, and I have all the lighting I want, plus a workshop! (the national average is something like 4X this amount).

Yes, I like your idea of a solar-cell covered moon as well;). Great ideas often repeat themselves - there were plans years back to send up solar satellites, and send the energy back to earth as a narrow microwave beam, maybe using a mazer. But, the question arose about cost, practicality, and what if the beam began to wander off target..:laugh3: "Poof" there goes Florida! I really think the solar rooftop idea was a good one - still is. If every building had them, and they were sited correctly, that would cut down the need for added energy to all but three months out of the year. Maybe President Obama will move us in that direction, given a motivated Congress, and the economic demand (which seems to already be there.)?

Anyhow, nuff' of my gobbling. Hopefully, if God does play dice with the Universe, we can gamble to stack the odds in our favor as well.:) Hedging our bets helps as well - I like your approach to diversified sources!

 

You appear to have way too much time on your hands for your own good!!:stunned:

Time is relative.. besides, we need to delve deeply into things if we're going to make any real progress in this world!

:rolleyes:..this is about God rolling dice, ya know!:P