Saffire

If you work for an agency that steals, and you use a fraction of the loot to gain popular support, I have little sympathy for you when public opinion turns against you. The youth does not vote. They are worthless, as far as politicians are concerned. Tax cattle.

I don't believe cops, they lie. Sorry the rioters are destroying the private property of individuals not involved - they should be targeting the police families' property, it would be most effective.

Gold up 7% today, Silver up, Markets down 5%, trying to find a bottom. S&P also downgrades corporate/municipal debt, including Warren Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway, lol. Mr Buffett is the billionaire who was bragging about his taxpayer-funded bailout, and whining that Americans are so averse to taxes. President Obama comes on TV and jabbers about what a bunch of meanie pants S&P are. "Our problems are infinitely solvable." Oh, it's okay Mr Blama. Nobody is doubting you can make your interest payments on time. We just doubt the dollars you use to make them will be worth anything. Purchasing power is king. Someone at S&P was clearly not invited to the weekend cocktail parties! EDIT: It's 3:00! Time for the "plunge protection team" to levitate the market! CNBC is talking about the possibility that France will be downgraded soon also. JP Morgan predicts gold will hit $2500 before the end of the year.

Yeah Ron Paul is no Kim Kardashian, that's for sure. Too bad Boobus Americanus won't vote for him. Dow is down 440 points now. If Ron Paul doesn't win the Republican nomination, he might run as an independent. He could leech a lot of votes away from the Republican candidate, in the same way Ross Perot did. If the Republicans think they can continue to win using the "lesser of two evils" logic, they're sorely mistaken. They're exactly the same as the friggin Democrats.

Greece just banned short selling for the next couple months, lol. Dow is down 300, seems to be stable around this level. If you're watching CNBC right now, it's funny - they're blaming Europe, Europe, Europe! The US is NEVER at fault, lol. And yes, I'm starting to think Obama's odds for reelection are falling fast. Even the Navy Seal team that killed Osama bin Laden just got blown out of the sky by the Taliban - so that glimmer of light was just neutralized. People are wondering why the hell we're still there. People are wondering what we're doing in Iraq now, in Libya... this is Ron Paul's election to lose. So you know what that means - the media will ignore him and focus on airheads like Michelle Bachmann (a former IRS attack dog) and Mitt Romney (a neocon socialist just like Obama and Bush). The disgusting thing is, there's really nothing wrong with the economy. All this tumult is the governments of the world sticking their collective boot on the neck of free trade.

Gold just passed $1700 an ounce. Chinese, Israeli markets down dramatically, US market futures down dramatically. Tomorrow's gonna be exciting! *gets popcorn* QE3, here we come. Let the moneyprinting begin!

It's how I get all the ladies. :husky:

A lot of it depends on how the markets react. If the stock market and bond market freak out like a drama queen then it could cause some major political trouble, maybe some more calls for serious spending cuts. Otherwise we might see the same old day-by-day "kick the can down the road". Obama's reelection chances are looking worse and worse, that's for sure. But there's also deep anger against Republicans who aren't as fiscally-conservative as they advertise themselves to be. So the "Tea Party" continues to get more influential. Some of this might also be my wishful thinking, I'm not as good at predicting political outcomes as I am at predicting economic outcomes.

Yep, exactly. Basically investors don't take US politicians seriously when they talk about cutting spending. And tax revenues are too low to pay it off... and if they tried to raise taxes, it would make the recession worse.

When old people have a lot of money to invest (that they've saved up their whole lives), they go to an advisor who tells them where to put it. Sometimes they'll use the money to buy stocks. But right now, the stock market is haywire so they're more likely to loan their money out for interest. You can loan your money to companies or governments. But governments are usually safer to give money to because they can tax and print in order to pay off their debts. In the case of the US, the rating agency decided our debt isn't as safe as Canada's debt (it's less likely to be paid off, in other words). When a ratings agency decides your debt isn't safe, that makes people less likely to loan you money. And so in order to attract lenders, you need to raise the rate of interest you're willing to pay on your debt! Understand?

These. Are. Not. Free. Markets.

Conference calls time! From Zero Hedge:

Yeah, Crests you'll be happy to know that your country is the only one in North America now with a AAA credit rating! :D Hard to say, I think this information might have already been leaked. Hence the big market collapse a couple days ago. But we'll see. There's evidence George Soros (one-world-government promoting hedge fund manager) knew about the downgrade because he liquidated his stock holdings days before the market tanked. The REALLY important news now is what's going on in Europe. Germany just balked at buying more Italian debt: Germany, as the sole EU country that isn't mired in its own debt, has been responsible for filling in the gaps for all the idiocy in Greece lately (which isn't a big deal because it's a small country with relatively small debts). But Italy is a big country with big debts. So Monday will be very interesting. The fun starts Sunday afternoon for us East Coast Americans, though, that's when the Asian markets open. The time between the announcement of government bailouts and the markets falling again (due to realization of the inefficacy of bailouts) is getting shorter and shorter. Eventually bailouts won't make a lick of difference.

US has just lost its triple A credit rating.

DJIA fell over 500 points today, bloodbath in the markets. European markets open in 12 hours. Margin debt is near record high levels, and mutual funds have record low cash. This is looking a lot like 2008 all over again.

I read somewhere that Spanish air traffic controllers make $800,000 a year or something outrageous like that. A good president can find places to cut spending, without making people too mad.

The politicians in Spain really only have two choices over the next year: 1. Cut government spending (government workers lose their jobs, which raises unemployment). 2. Raise taxes (private workers lose their jobs, which raises unemployment). A bad choice to make, but if I were in Spain now I'd rather work for the government than the private sector. This problem is not unique to Spain, of course. The US, UK, Italy, Greece, etc all have the same issues. If you have savings, buy gold and silver coins.

Eric Cantor just announced he'll vote for the biggest debt ceiling increase in American history. Remember that next time you hear Democrats complaining about him, or you hear about how Eric Cantor is such a staunch supporter of fiscal conservatism.

Here's Ron Paul's take on the debt deal that's being touted today as the solution to our problems.

Eventually what'll happen is people will just choose to stop buying US bonds in such large amounts at such low interest rates. The government will be forced to raise interest rates in order to increase demand for the bonds. When the rates increase, the interest payments will also increase a corresponding amount. In order to pay the increased interest, they'll need to issue even more debt - and it will be at this point when the market will crash, because people will see the Catch 22 very clearly. Money will fly out of the bond markets (where most US dollars in the world are parked) and into circulation (buying up real commodities). That'll be the start of hyperinflation.

Haha well I would personally love to see a default. I'd explained this in the Spanish Revolution thread, but it's silly to be paying such a huge % of your tax revenue on interest payments to banks. So like most things in economics it's very counterintuitive - a default would mean a higher quality of life for people in the US, coupled with the inability of Washington to borrow (which would increase the power of the individual states and reduce the power of the Federal government). They'll increase the debt ceiling, though, I'm confident. It will happen continually until hyperinflation hits.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/07/28/clyburn_likens_executive_order_to_raise_debt_ceiling_to_emancipation_proclamation.html Thy will be done!

Mathieu, do you know who finances Somali warlords? The government of Northern Somalia? If the accumulation of capital is vital to social progress, what is your view on taxation? Inflation? Do these things inhibit the accumulation of capital at all? And if they do, do they do it on a greater scale than sporadic violence and theft does? I think it's safe to say institutionalized theft and counterfeiting is a greater drain on the productive capacity of a society than random small-scale conflicts might be - history bears this out. I completely disagree with this. The Somali government was horribly oppressive. And the UN's efforts at installing a new government is cruel and unnecessary. Anyway it's not easy to convince people that "engineers fall from the sky", when they prefer to believe God created them. ;) EDIT: I think I might have linked this video before, but here's a summary of ways Somalia has improved without a government: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtGkTRnocZI]‪True News 18: Somalia‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

Right Chuck, "Give a man a fish/Teach a man to fish" thing. They need more engineers, not more money.

This isn't so far fetched, I've read about this in other places. China is interested in buying land in Africa for mining, and as a counter to US involvement in the Middle East. This is about "spheres of influence", so the West will try to portray China's involvement negatively in order to maintain their monopoly of colonization in that area. There is no government in southern Somalia, and it has been a blessing for the people living there, contrary to what the UN would have us believe. All the statistics show an improvement in the quality of life for southern Somalis, and "Xeer" law (which is their Islamic polycentric commonlaw) works just fine for them sans a government.