Prince Myshkin

Yellow is Christian? Yikes, don't let politics and religion mix.

Wowza, Alice nailed it.

You'd need a trial for that then. We don't have time for a trial. And I doubt it would be a fair trial anyway.

I'll refer you to part of my original post in this thread, made about ten minutes after I found out about bin Laden's death: You are simple. I stand by it. It's took a relatively long time for a significant number of people (not talking about this board apart from the cringe bit coming up, more generally in the news etc) to move from delight, to minor cringing at it, to starting to understand the potential severity of reacting in that way. The hysteria will have played a part though, and if it had been an attack on English soil and our government forced a ridiculous amount of propaganda on us then I'm sure the scenes would have been the same here. In fact even just the uneducated, without propaganda.

How patriotic.

Celtic got beat by Inverness :laugh3:

Yeah, I saw that haha.

I don't think United deserve it. They haven't done anything all season.

Why?

I can't see United's defence coping with Barca's attack, given they are at their best when kicking and grabbing, and won't have an English referee ignoring handballs or bowing to the pressure. I can't see United's attack doing all that much other than Nani, unless they pull something out of the bag which they haven't been doing recently or are extremely clinical in whatever chances they get. They've yet to play a top foreign side in the competition this season, Valencia being the closest to that (15 points behind Barcelona in the League). This will be their hardest game of the season.

Schalke's keeper has had a poor game.

bin Laden and his connections with football. Interesting, and as an English football fan, the England V Tunisia terrorist plot took me by surprise. http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/blogs/mirror-football-blog/Osama-Bin-Laden-dead-Did-al-Qaeda-leader-really-support-Arsenal-and-visit-Highbury-Plus-how-he-plotted-to-blow-up-David-Seaman-and-kill-David-Beckham-Alan-Shearer-Michael-Owen-and-Glenn-Hoddle-and-why-Gunners-fans-chanted-his-name-article731061.html

Haha, United only get 25,000 tickets for the final!

Yup.

But neither is torture. What do you make of psychological torture, in terms of say telling them that their loved ones have been captured and are going to die if they don't tell? Baring in mind I honestly believe that if you said 'in extreme circumstances' that it would then be abused and used in situations where the person was innocent.

I'm unsure of the ability to create a truth serum and who knows how it's use could be abused if it ended in the wrong hands. I think that the example that dry_pretzels used was a good one, as it is bonding with the person rather than exerting force physically or mentally to horrific extents. Sleep deprivation wouldn't work in these situations as I'm guessing that the scenarios we are discussing have time very much at the forefront of importance. Some people got arrested on terrorism charges yesterday in this country for taking pictures near a nuclear plant. They might be terrorists, they might not be, but with things as tense as they are now if torture was allowed I think that it would be allowed to be used on them (I'm pretty sure as we speak bad things will be happening to them. To what extent I have no idea). Imagine if you were innocent and taking pictures, but because you were of a certain race or religion, or simply looked suspicious. It's something that can happen. I know you don't want it used in these circumstances and this is not what you are talking about, but I feel that with the threat as it is right now, and some people in authorities obvious lack of empathy, that cases like these will result in torture. It's happened whilst torture has barely been accepted, imagine what would happen behind closed doors if the floodgates opened with the law behind them.

I'm still waiting to sell my King Of Limbs newspaper album. Think I'll give it three years the look to pass it on. Not even opened the thing it was posted in yet haha.

Cheers Rudy! I'll be looking into quite a few of these. I have no problem in listening to other peoples music tastes and it's sometimes good to go completely different to what a person normally likes, rather than just teaching them about the genres they already have an interest in.

I nearly went for it. It was between A and C for me.

I should be the motherfucking oracle.

You don't have to love anything. It isn't something you have control over. You feel how you feel and then try to find a sensible and rational way of assimilating how you feel towards that person, and if it's negative try to either solve the problem, or keep it out of your life. If you have a problem, the people you get on most with (and so hopefully the most important people in your life) will work through them with you and find a way to make it work. If it can't work then there is little option than to move on, otherwise nothing will be solved and things will stay the same, which won't be worth it at all. That's how I see things on a general level, but I'm guessing there will be exceptions.

I think this is the heaviest topic I've posted in. Enjoying it (in a way), and it's really had me thinking.

It's interesting how it went from terrorist activity to an isolated incident involving two people and you seemed more likely to back torture on the isolated incident than the bin Laden situation which was about terrorism as that was a case where we 'definitely knew'. What else would you allow it for? This makes me think that you are definitely for it in the right circumstances (and therefore for it), and I'm not condemning you for it, I just find it interesting. Correct me if I'm wrong on that point, I may have misunderstood. You can't legislate for these things. There are too many cases that are too obscure, with all the tiny parts to them, to pass any kind of law covering all of them, if the result is that a human being would be subject to torture. Any attempt to legislate for them will lead to it being exploited. It freaks me out, possibly more than the psychopaths that torture people, that people in authority give the go ahead for these things to go ahead. People who aren't psychotic, and instead run nation states as supreme representatives. I also don't buy into being 'absolutely certain' of something, which is why I am against the death penalty. It is such a difficult topic, but i think when it comes down to it I can't imagine a human being treated in that way regardless of their crimes. For those involved personally, maybe (since if they had my child hostage I would do anything to save them), but by an organisation meant to police the people should try not personalise too much of what they do (regardless of the extremity of the situation), nor should they have the psyche to carry out such atrocities if they are supposed to be protecting us. If somebody can torture a human then I do not trust them to protect me.

What torture is acceptable, if you think it is acceptable? Here are some examples of American torture techniques used in the 2000's, not even to obtain information. Simply done to prisoners. I put this here because I feel if people are going to stand by torture then they should be specific in what they mean by it. I use these examples as many people see America as a progressive society, and I feel many posters on here would imagine America to have some form of 'class' (if that is at all possible - I don't think it is) when it comes to torture. Contains graphic images but is allowed on Wikipedia! Don't look if you don't want to see. Blurred out images but it is very clear what is going on. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse

All I would say to this is that these things are outside of Islam as well. And racism needs to be tackled, but stopping it is a long term goal and easier said than done.