Wildfires are a natural part of the ecosystem, and necessary to prevent the buildup of a lot of brush. Kevin Rudd's government is preparing to get vindictive over deaths that were basically accidents.

 

I can see your point of view but it still is terrible. I mean, inoccent people shouldn't die whether it was an accident or not.

It think it's like 170 confirmed dead and 300 speculated or something right now...

We are having an out of uniform day today with a gold coin donation today to raise money for all of the people affected by the fires.

Now there's about 189 dead.

Wildfires are a natural part of the ecosystem, and necessary to prevent the buildup of a lot of brush.

Yup, and there are many plants that use fire to spread their seeds and all that fun stuff.

But always a tricky situation when humans get involved in nature.

Sad to hear the news:cry:

Having relatives who lived in the Oakland hills of CA once, there's sometimes a lack of forethought about safety and planning to prevent disaster; thinning or thinning burns normally clear out the underbrush, residents are supposed to clear away the flammable brush near homes, and grow ice-plant instead; and replace highly flammable cedar roofing with clay tile. But sadly few did this, and a lot of destruction ensued. But it sounds like a rare firestorm in Australia - combining extreme heat with high wind and the development of a horizontal tornado/cyclone-like vortex of flames, similar to the tragic fire Peshtigo Wisocnsin experienced in 1871 (same time as the great Chicago fire, but with a great loss of life). The conditions sound errily similar - trees exploding from the heat, people being almost 'vaporized' by the fire; many almost suffocating from the rapid loss of breathable air.

My heart goes out to anyone suffering from the tragedy.

We get bushfires every year, it's why we have a "bushfire season" - just the record-breaking hot temperatures and strong winds have made this a lot worse than it would have been on a normal summer day.

OH, thanks for that bit of information! But firestorms might still happen? It's a phenomenon in intense fires ...Firestorm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We are having an out of uniform day today with a gold coin donation today to raise money for all of the people affected by the fires.

Yeah, same. Friday though.

I was talking about the bushfires this morning and one of the people responsible has been caught. There's now 189 dead.

Our house is up for emergency accomodation yet there's still people out there living in tents... :sick:

Australia's 'enemy within'

 

By Kathryn Westcott

BBC News

 

Australia's prime minister has referred to them as "mass murderers", another senior official has described them as the "enemy within". Who are the arsonists believed to have started some of the fires that have killed more than 130 people?

 

Australia has a long history of "bushfire arson". According to a recent report by the Australian Institute of Criminology (AIC), an estimated 50% of the nation's annual 20,000 to 30,000 bushfires are either known or suspected to have been deliberately lit.

 

But little is known about the arsonists.

 

Police in Australia's southern Victoria believe arsonists started some of the fires that have killed more than 130 people, and investigations have started to try to track down the perpetrators. But, similar cases in Australia and the US indicate that it could be a long and frustrating process.

 

Apart from the fact that an experienced bushfire arsonist is an elusive culprit, much of the crime scene evidence is immediately destroyed or is altered significantly.

 

According to the AIC report, only a small proportion of arsonists are ever caught.

 

Motives

 

"It's a huge field which has been inadequately researched," says Adam Brett, a forensic psychiatrist in Western Australia, who has specialist knowledge of the arson.

 

"All fires start with a small fire and the consequences are not always anticipated," says Dr Brett.

 

"There are subtypes of people who light fires, from people covering up crimes, to people who are expressing their pain to people who light fires due to mental illness. There are very few people who light fires for the fun of it.

 

"Then there is a group of hero firefighters - people who light fires so they can put them out."

 

Rebekah Doley, a clinical psychologist at Bond University in Queensland, says we probably know more about the "dumb arsonists" than the "smart ones", who are rarely caught.

 

Ms Doley, who has researched the crime of arson and interviewed a number of culprits, says arsonists are unlikely to be pyromaniacs. The term pyromaniac, she says, implies they are unable to help themselves, while arsonists choose to light fires for a number of reasons.

 

She says that the characteristics of urban arsonists and bushfire arsonists differ. Urban arsonists, she says, tend to be motivated by things like revenge or financial reward, such as insurance fraud. Bushfire arsonists tend to be motivated by psychological needs such as a quest for power or excitement.

 

"These individuals tend to be underachievers in terms of education, they are not part of the community and are loners. Starting a fire gives them control over their environment," she says.

 

Reports at the weekend suggested that some of the fires had been deliberately relit after they had been put out by firefighters.

 

'Copycat'

 

"As the police cordon closes in around them, they might light more fires to seize control back, and to prove that they are smarter than the authorities," says Ms Doley.

 

Then there is "thrill" aspect of the crime. Arsonists often return to or hang around the scene of the crime, to watch firefighters and emergency services respond.

 

It is not unknown for several arsonists to work separately at the same time.

 

A number of unrelated arsonists were responsible for the devastating "Ash Wednesday" fires in 1983, in which 47 people were killed, 2,800 homes destroyed and 210,000 hectares burnt.

 

However, Ms Doley says, this is not typical.

 

"Bushfire arson is a very opportunistic crime - a somewhat impulsive one, in which people tend to work alone" says Ms Doley, while acknowledging that some arsonists may be inspired by media coverage to commit copycat crimes.

 

She says they are unlikely to ever feel remorse for causing damage or for any resulting loss of life because they feel so disenfranchised from their community.

 

Sometimes bushfire arsonists sign up as volunteer firefighters. This has prompted the fire services to establish screening mechanisms, which work to a "greater of lesser extent," according to Ms Doley.

 

Convictions

 

Australian authorities say they will relentlessly hunt down those who sparked the most recent fires. But previous cases indicate investigations could be either lengthy or fruitless.

 

"Bushfires are harder to catch, domestic fires are easier because investigators may, for example, find accelerants near the scene," says Dr Brett. "If the bushfire arsonists get caught it's usually at the site by an eyewitness."

 

 

Ms Dole says few arsonists are convicted of starting the actual fire because the burden of proof is so difficult in such cases, . "Fire setting is hidden among the other offences," she says.

 

She says that given that arson is such a perennial problem, greater co-operation is needed between the nation's various local and state agencies to tackle it properly, including the setting up of a national database.

 

According to the AIC report, between 2001 and 2005, 276 people were convicted of arson in Victoria, but for the third who did go to jail the most common sentence was one year.

 

Such a sentence may seem inadequate to Australians faced with the devastation and loss of life caused by the latest fires.

 

One state premier has gone so far as to call those responsible "terrorists".

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7878412.stm

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7879097.stm

thanks for that article and map jenje. It helps explain to everyone what is actually happening/

Thanks also, Jenjie! I'm wondering though, exactly what's burning? Eucalyptus trees? If that's the case, it's hard to control what in nature wants to burn, and with enough people anywhere, there's bound to be arsonists, unfortunately. 1/1000th of 1% is all it takes. So, I'm wondering if more steps could be taken to keep the Eucalyptus short in populated regions, or use periodic control burns? Eucalyptus is the problem in parts of California as well, and while not native there, it is in Austraila (Y/N)? What happen naturally helps keep things in check, so maybe more frequent burns at cooler times would help?

Eucalyptus trees are native to Australia and in most of the areas threatened often there's lots of them. Plus control burns are done but it seems not enough... Kinglake, for one example, was where I had school camp last year in a foresty area there, and that had a lot of fire fuel - leaves on the ground, yes, eucalyptus trees and general dryness

Now there's over 200 people dead and now 2 of the people responsible for the fires have been caught.

Sad sad story :sad:

Thanks for the information, Cobalt! I had been wondering just that - and Australia isn't alone with the problem of lax forest management - California has similar issues, where the undergrowth has built up, much of it dead and tinder dry in places. Sounds like you could see this problem before it got going as well.. Here, the pines go up like flashbulbs; but Eucalyptus must be more so, with all the volatile oils.

Anyhow, sad to hear the news about your country's predicament & I hope you're safe & sound!

:c

 

A very Sad story indeed. :( Hoping and praying that it will rain heavily so that the fire will stop soon.

 

My friend bought 2 tickets through ticketec for me and herself for Coldplay's concert in Rod Laver Arena, Melbourne. We're going to see them live all the way from Malaysia.

 

I've been looking forward to my short break in Melbourne, and i was very excited to see coldplay perform live, but I was shocked by what I heard and saw about the bushfire in the news. I'm truly saddened by the news of the bushfire tragedy. I pray that everything will be alright and may the tragedy (bushfire) stop soon.

 

How far is the distance between the city and affected places? Sorry, but I'm just wondering...

 

May all of you you be blessed with the good things in life.

The city expanse (which includes surrounding suburbs) is safe from the fires. The city itself is absolutely safe from the bushfires - I live in the northwestern suburbs (aka the dodgier more neglected side of Melbourne) about 30 minutes from the city on the outskirts. Bendigo's about an hour and a half's drive away (would be two from the city), Marysville is about... two hours from here? I think? Kinglake's over an hour away from me as well.

our school of 500 students raised about $1500 for the fire appeal a couple of days ago.

That's good!!

Here's a good site to look at for the fires, and the aftermath, just to visualize the intensity and effect of it all:Bushfires in Victoria, Australia - The Big Picture - Boston.com

Better management practices seem in order, if we're ever going to keep things under control.. and more fire-safe shelters?Bushfire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The bigger trees seemed to survive at King Lake - different species, or just more water?

At the moment, quite a sad tragedy...

Maybe some conditions are beyond any control, if prolonged drought and extreme heat make any strategy ineffective...

Healesville's now on alert due to fires :\