http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1286480/EU-chief-warns-democracy-disappear-Greece-Spain-Portugal.html

 

Democracy could ‘collapse’ in Greece, Spain and Portugal unless urgent action is taken to tackle the debt crisis, the head of the European Commission has warned.

 

...

 

‘He's very, very worried. He shocked us with an apocalyptic vision of democracies in Europe collapsing because of the state of indebtedness.’

 

Greece, Spain and Portugal, which only became democracies in the 1970s, are all facing dire problems with their public finances. All three countries have a history of military coups.

 

 

When governments can no longer bribe people with their own money, the scam ends.

i think this time it won't be a military coup, but i feel something similar may happen, may be even after elections, who knows. (still i feel the goverment did a militry coup the 3 December last year when they forced the air controllers to work via militia taking the airports).

and in my opinion we are already living in a dictatorship as many working and social rights and services are being reduced or restricted blaming the lack of money in admisnistration but which still offers money to new projects instead of paying the works done before/debts.

 

last one is 2 main parties have decided to follow Sarko-Merkel recomendation and we will add to constitution the limit of expenses from administration -though with no numbers!- even when is something we can still do upto 2014 and will be effective in 2018, and even when our constitution says we shall have a referendum when those sorts of reforms happen, we won't have one, unless we get the minoritary parties ask for it, which -and apparently big parties simply had followed an article which says fiscal laws can't be asked in referendum.-, so in my view we are being already in a dictatorship for things like that.

 

(blame the bump for be searching a thread about Portugal.the man and not finding it).

The big difference now is that all 3 countries are far more 'open' due to tourism and the globalisation of communication in the last 30years.

 

Spain had an attempted Military coup in the 90s I think which was swiftly dealt with.

 

If this happens then it would mean that there would have been far more serious instances elsewhere globally and in Europe and not just a by-produst of the current financial instablility.

 

Sounds like scaremongering by someone with an agenda at worst or simply a fundemental lack of understanding at best. At worst will be a reorganisation of the euro and a drastic devaluation of currencies. Spain & Greece's populations especially aren't liking the projected austerity measures but in the end they're either going to have to like it or lump it.

 

I can see at Greece at least leaving the euro. It would certainly help their tourist industry. It used to be cheap to go to Greece. Now it's not.

The big difference now is that all 3 countries are far more 'open' due to tourism and the globalisation of communication in the last 30years.

 

Spain had an attempted Military coup in the 90s I think which was swiftly dealt with.

 

If this happens then it would mean that there would have been far more serious instances elsewhere globally and in Europe and not just a by-produst of the current financial instablility.

 

Sounds like scaremongering by someone with an agenda at worst or simply a fundemental lack of understanding at best. At worst will be a reorganisation of the euro and a drastic devaluation of currencies. Spain & Greece's populations especially aren't liking the projected austerity measures but in the end they're either going to have to like it or lump it.

 

I can see at Greece at least leaving the euro. It would certainly help their tourist industry. It used to be cheap to go to Greece. Now it's not.

the military coup was in early 80s, and seeing it at this time view, some people bring sort of conspiracy theories of this event.

 

Spain is not liking the austerity measures because we still feel politicians are wasting money, -doesn't feel fair they secure their salaries and even increase them when many people had seen their salaries reduced and which is forcing them to have debts when they hadn't before as taxes and costs increases- because they go doing new projects instead of paying the debts they already have which is causing many people to get unemployed and many business closing because administrations refuse to pay them, althought is said some cases come from before the euro was used here. :|

 

is a shame we go so many steps back after the long we had to wait and work hard to be in Europe in a medium good level.

 

many structural changes shall be done here, and still seems many people won't be able to adapt and probably many will have to go abroad to have a future, unless things change a lot in few time.

DailyMail? Are you serious? lol

Daily Mail indeed but by the EC as well? Scare mongering ****.

Europe will be a very different place in 30 years time.

Europe will be a very different place in 30 years time.

 

Isn't it always in 30 years time? Thinking back in 30 year intervals over the last 200 years, it seems to have changed more than most the world.

A new type of democracy will raise.. dictorshipe will opose it.. I dont think people will fight, but times will be very hard..

I suspect we are all pawns in a game being played by the global plutocrats, and their risky, corrupt methods have us all suffering from bad economic designs.

When governments no longer serve the long-term interests of their citizens, and larger concerns are undermined by regionalism and nationalism, things are in need of revamping.

I think what is needed is actually social businesses, worker-owned and managed by boards selected by the worker-owners. Governments which serve the interests of the people as a whole require an informed educated electorate which has access to information from news organizations that are motivated to produce excellent in-depth unbiased reports with insightful analysis; perhaps this revolutionary period will bear such fruits.

I hope a new type of democracy arises - something to provide a bell weather example to the greater world.

Europe will be a very different place in 30 years time.

i fear at time it'll happen even sooner.

 

Isn't it always in 30 years time? Thinking back in 30 year intervals over the last 200 years, it seems to have changed more than most the world.

around every generation, and might be true. at least looking at spanish history since the last 2 centuries, seems like something had to spoil everything every 3 decades. Just an example i've been told we have the railway in diferent measures cause the generation that brough train here were afraid that France would come again to conquer us so as a way to make it harder for them they prefered that we were the only european country with a diferent width for it. :uhoh: thought i think our problem is a matter of basis/structure, the way of be of us, shall be different shall have a different personality as a whole, so that's difficult to change.

 

I suspect we are all pawns in a game being played by the global plutocrats, and their risky, corrupt methods have us all suffering from bad economic designs.

When governments no longer serve the long-term interests of their citizens, and larger concerns are undermined by regionalism and nationalism, things are in need of revamping.

I think what is needed is actually social businesses, worker-owned and managed by boards selected by the worker-owners. Governments which serve the interests of the people as a whole require an informed educated electorate which has access to information from news organizations that are motivated to produce excellent in-depth unbiased reports with insightful analysis; perhaps this revolutionary period will bear such fruits.

I hope a new type of democracy arises - something to provide a bell weather example to the greater world.

no surprise then that the critic movement "peones negros/black pawn" had disappeared 3 years ago when they were getting strong in big mass of the society and after that everything has gone downhill socially.

educated electors? our two main parties hadn't had a proper inner elections to throw a candidate, simply the candidate has been picked but had no democratic election between two people, so imagine how the rest is, as when on elections time and one have to listen comments of the sort: i voted bla bla candidate because he is the best looking, what proper argument is that?

also when the education plan has made spaniards to grow as stranger to each other depending on their living region.

for instance, i remember when i studied abroad and met another spanish people, we commented on our general studies, and they didn't knew a thing about Carthaginieans, when apart of be an important question for any exam i've done in my city, it meant the excuse why Romans came to conquer Spain, they didn't knew a thing about that. :confused:

i hope that finally proper democracy will happen in Spain, we always had the weird use to adapt whatever foreign movement here, and not take it as a whole with the goods and bads from the begin, we instead try to merge it with our way of be and think and the high positioned always were the first to adapt that way for their benefit.

It may happen sooner you could be right. The elections are soon a couple of months, further cut backs are going to hurt the people even more.

 

We need to take collective responsibilty, its the only way out of this.

This may mean the workers will have to pay more tax, but then people who are poor wont suffer as much, if the poor people suffer, what happend in the UK, will happen here and make the UK look like a school yard play ground fun.

i fear at time it'll happen even sooner.

 

 

around every generation, and might be true. at least looking at spanish history since the last 2 centuries, seems like something had to spoil everything every 3 decades. Just an example i've been told we have the railway in diferent measures cause the generation that brough train here were afraid that France would come again to conquer us so as a way to make it harder for them they prefered that we were the only european country with a diferent width for it. :uhoh: thought i think our problem is a matter of basis/structure, the way of be of us, shall be different shall have a different personality as a whole, so that's difficult to change.

 

 

no surprise then that the critic movement "peones negros/black pawn" had disappeared 3 years ago when they were getting strong in big mass of the society and after that everything has gone downhill socially.

educated electors? our two main parties hadn't had a proper inner elections to throw a candidate, simply the candidate has been picked but had no democratic election between two people, so imagine how the rest is, as when on elections time and one have to listen comments of the sort: i voted bla bla candidate because he is the best looking, what proper argument is that?

also when the education plan has made spaniards to grow as stranger to each other depending on their living region.

for instance, i remember when i studied abroad and met another spanish people, we commented on our general studies, and they didn't knew a thing about Carthaginieans, when apart of be an important question for any exam i've done in my city, it meant the excuse why Romans came to conquer Spain, they didn't knew a thing about that. :confused:

i hope that finally proper democracy will happen in Spain, we always had the weird use to adapt whatever foreign movement here, and not take it as a whole with the goods and bads from the begin, we instead try to merge it with our way of be and think and the high positioned always were the first to adapt that way for their benefit.

Amazing, to not know how the Carthaginians affected Spain and the Roman excuse to invade based on that - seems like history anyone is taught! Too much regionalism yes, I see the problem.. I actually don't know that much about Spain's relatively recent Democracy after Franco, how it functions or how it is structured. All Democracies are experiments, no two alike, so just find the formula that works best for you - ours hasn't been running so well lately either! Oh, so your Democracy was initially co-opted by the high and mighty from the get-go, hm, that's unfortunate - I wish you well in retrieving your democracy! Here, it was somewhat the case as well, but the ideals are good, if ever we get back to those ideals.

It may happen sooner you could be right. The elections are soon a couple of months, further cut backs are going to hurt the people even more.

 

We need to take collective responsibilty, its the only way out of this.

This may mean the workers will have to pay more tax, but then people who are poor wont suffer as much, if the poor people suffer, what happend in the UK, will happen here and make the UK look like a school yard play ground fun.

. I can't understand austerity in times of economic slowness, it's not logical when there's capacity for growth. Sounds like the same argument put forth here by the high and mighty in congress - the workers need to pay more taxes, the wealthy can all but skip out of town. The age of inequity is causing massive dysfunction in the world as I see it. So the only motivation to correct imbalances is the fear of riots, how wrong-headed that is! Nothing matters it seems unless there's revolution in the streets.. The working classes who can pay but haven't begun to revolt are ignored unless they revolt then? I can't understand the wealthy - they dry the forest floor and wonder why the fire spreads so quickly; instead of sharing the water, it all gets sucked up to the canopy and they neglect to return a fair share to the roots. Only when they see a neighbor's forest ablaze do they realize the conditions they have set up in their own biome. The US hasn't faced this yet, but conditions aren't so far off from Spain's or England's.. Official unemployment is at 9.1%, what is Spain's rate like?

It may happen sooner you could be right. The elections are soon a couple of months, further cut backs are going to hurt the people even more.

 

We need to take collective responsibilty, its the only way out of this.

This may mean the workers will have to pay more tax, but then people who are poor wont suffer as much, if the poor people suffer, what happend in the UK, will happen here and make the UK look like a school yard play ground fun.

if the politicians would take collective responsability instead of campaigning for the elections would had cut their saleries or even not get them until the crises is over, instead you know what they've done. they are all so full of corruption no matter in which party one looks.

empovert the medium class won't help, i've been told that transition was possible because existed an average medium class and so the changes weren't so noticeable, if not the rich would had been richer and the poor poorer, which is what is happening now.

anyways whatever they look for a solution, depending to have a future on the civil servant jobs and not be able to have good couple big industries won't helpt to recover well and avoid another similar crises to happen one day.

mind should change and should help the emprendedores, that's the only way to go on well.

cause even if salaries are fine and so on, back some day, there's a lot of people who were promised a future thanks to study which won't get any cause everybody did the same.

we also should reduce the taxes we have, is not fair for an act one have to pay like 3 taxes. :wtf:

Amazing, to not know how the Carthaginians affected Spain and the Roman excuse to invade based on that - seems like history anyone is taught! Too much regionalism yes, I see the problem.. I actually don't know that much about Spain's relatively recent Democracy after Franco, how it functions or how it is structured. All Democracies are experiments, no two alike, so just find the formula that works best for you - ours hasn't been running so well lately either! Oh, so your Democracy was initially co-opted by the high and mighty from the get-go, hm, that's unfortunate - I wish you well in retrieving your democracy! Here, it was somewhat the case as well, but the ideals are good, if ever we get back to those ideals.

 

. I can't understand austerity in times of economic slowness, it's not logical when there's capacity for growth. Sounds like the same argument put forth here by the high and mighty in congress - the workers need to pay more taxes, the wealthy can all but skip out of town. The age of inequity is causing massive dysfunction in the world as I see it. So the only motivation to correct imbalances is the fear of riots, how wrong-headed that is! Nothing matters it seems unless there's revolution in the streets.. The working classes who can pay but haven't begun to revolt are ignored unless they revolt then? I can't understand the wealthy - they dry the forest floor and wonder why the fire spreads so quickly; instead of sharing the water, it all gets sucked up to the canopy and they neglect to return a fair share to the roots. Only when they see a neighbor's forest ablaze do they realize the conditions they have set up in their own biome. The US hasn't faced this yet, but conditions aren't so far off from Spain's or England's.. Official unemployment is at 9.1%, what is Spain's rate like?

it was an exemple on how regionalism has affected, we don't know the same History, we've been taugh the little bits that someone decided we shall know, that is not known one's History fairly, imo.

one of the problems is we have too many governamental institutions that use a lot of public money, central goverment including ministeries, autonomical goverment, provincial goverment, local goverment, that means a lot of money that how public economy system can't afford any longer, cause that also covers health and education.

goverments, no matter of what colour or level had spent a lot of money that they didn't have, and now have a huge debt, they shouldn't had been allowed to that.

"Democracy was initially co-opted by the high and mighty from the get-go, hm, that's unfortunate", what i've noticied through History is what i said, every 30 years some crises or big change arises, and no matter what well positioned people ended in a good position on the new system, i think is one of the causes why it isn't working well, if you don't count on the poor aswell as the medium class, at some point it won't work well.