If you are in one of the countries aiding Libyan rebel fighters, how do you feel about the amount of money your government is spending on this support given the current financial climate?

I have mixed feelings. Part of me thinks that what he has done to his people is terrible that we should try to help. At the same time I don't like the idea of getting involved in ANOTHER war. We are already in so much debt already. Also fighting 3 wars at once is too much at one time.

 

At least though there is much more of a backing from the international community so it's not as if we are spending all the money, but still.

Personally I'm all for it.

 

If I was in another country and I was in trouble and my government was attempting to annihilate myself and those around me simply for protesting then I would hope that I could look for help elsewhere in the world (I realise that not all the protesters will want intervention from foreign nations, but without it a revolution becomes less likely).

 

With regards to money spent on artillery, it's already been spent, and with regards to missiles etc it is a case of use it or lose it as they have a shelf life, be it a literal 'best before' date, or as technology progresses and defence systems improve. Whilst I do not think we should use them sparingly I feel that this is a legitimate reason to use them.

 

As Mike said, this is also an ideal time to get involved (in comparison to previous conflicts) as more Western nations seem to be getting their hands dirty, so to speak, thus sharing the cost between them.

 

I also don't put a price on human lives and with Gadaffi gone will come freedom, eventually. It would be weird to stand by and watch rebels slaughtered. Whether we realise it or not, regardless of the current financial climate, the majority of the Western World (generally speaking) is in a far better position than the Libyans, both financially and in terms of freedom.

 

That's my own personal view, although I totally understand the opposing view and don't dismiss it.

If you are in one of the countries aiding Libyan rebel fighters, how do you feel about the amount of money your government is spending on this support given the current financial climate?

Since you're only asking how we feel about the money side of it, that's all that I will get into.

 

Basically, as you said, the money is already spent. Defense spending is a piece of the annual budget pie, it is already allocated, so it is a 'sunk cost' regardless of the current financial climate.

Milica (old poster) has a pretty interesting view on this whole situation. She's from Serbia, and there was a large amount of UN 'intervention' there years ago. I'll ask her to post.

Totally agree with you Braddock. Yes the economic circumstances of some of the countries involved is not great but at the end of the day if another country's citizens are calling for desperate help to save themselves we have to answer to that call.

Since you're only asking how we feel about the money side of it, that's all that I will get into.

 

Basically, as you said, the money is already spent. Defense spending is a piece of the annual budget pie, it is already allocated, so it is a 'sunk cost' regardless of the current financial climate.

 

Yeah, I'm trying to make it just about the money, since the whole affair has its own thread, but I figured this one aspect could be debated and we could get quite a few views. All views are welcome of course :)

 

There is the risk of this turning into a long battle though, and what if another threat emerges and the countries don't have the money to fund the purchase of new defence procedures? - asked as devils advocate.

 

Milica (old poster) has a pretty interesting view on this whole situation. She's from Serbia, and there was a large amount of UN 'intervention' there years ago. I'll ask her to post.

 

Thank you, that would be much appreciated.

Totally agree with you Braddock. Yes the economic circumstances of some of the countries involved is not great but at the end of the day if another country's citizens are calling for desperate help to save themselves we have to answer to that call.

 

Asked as devil's advocate once more

 

What of the Libyans who do not what major involvement from other countries and are wary of our motives? Could it no be dangerous? We have a habit of creating enemies by 'helping' others.

I think regardless we shouldn't spend way too much time in there. We don't want another Iraq situation where people seemed happy at first, but then things went all sour. I say we try to help them as much as possible to overthrow Gaddafi and then step back and let them make their own decisions

I'm undecided on Libya involvement

I want for the people to be free obviously but I do worry that this may turn into a war like Iraq and we're unable to bring Libya a proper democratic government.

I think regardless we shouldn't spend way too much time in there. We don't want another Iraq situation where people seemed happy at first, but then things went all sour. I say we try to help them as much as possible to overthrow Gaddafi and then step back and let them make their own decisions

 

But it is kind of pointless going in then leaving before the job is done.

 

I'm undecided on Libya involvement

I want for the people to be free obviously but I do worry that this may turn into a war like Iraq and we're unable to bring Libya a proper democratic government.

 

I think the good thing with this one is that the people have worked so hard to get this change on their own. They want freedom, and are prepared to fight for it in mass numbers. Of course there will be many against it, but at least there are a huge amount risking their lives for it already.

I think the good thing with this one is that the people have worked so hard to get this change on their own.

 

This line right here made me think of Iraq, where there weren't any major problems until the US came.

Yeah it does show that they want it and I really do hope all does go to plan.

I think many of the supporters will have done fairly well for themselves during Gudaffi's reign so they won't want the change.

This line right here made me think of Iraq, where there weren't any major problems until the US came.

 

Well, they were living under a dictatorship, and taking aside the motives or possible motives of those who interfered, that had to change eventually. I hope it will for all countries under oppression.

 

But I see your point. There are certainly still problems.

 

Yeah it does show that they want it and I really do hope all does go to plan.

I think many of the supporters will have done fairly well for themselves during Gudaffi's reign so they won't want the change.

 

Yeah, the usual self interest brigade.

This line right here made me think of Iraq, where there weren't any major problems until the US came.

Exactly. And for the wrong reasons, which made it worse.

 

Bush: "Saddam tried to kill my daddy years ago so I'm gonna git him back and wrongfully convince everybody that he was responsible for 9/11 (by slapping WMD labels on random satellite images that any first-grader could have photoshopped or Microsoft Paint-ed for that matter) to use it as an excuse to justify going over there to git him derp dee derp."

But it is kind of pointless going in then leaving before the job is done.

 

 

 

I think the good thing with this one is that the people have worked so hard to get this change on their own. They want freedom, and are prepared to fight for it in mass numbers. Of course there will be many against it, but at least there are a huge amount risking their lives for it already.

 

Well that's the problem about going to war is deciding when to leave. I just feel that all of these Post WWII wars have been pointless in the sense that there's never really been much of an end in site to any of them. Like I mean Iraq has been going on for a long time and won't probably ever really end. Same with Afghanistan... I thought things were going well but then after time attention was taken away from it and you have Generals saying it's unwinnable.

 

So if that's the case then what do you do? Occupy the country forever? Or do you leave with a huge possibility of it going wrong. It's a delicate situation.

 

This line right here made me think of Iraq, where there weren't any major problems until the US came.

 

I agree in the sense it was a stable country and able to function on it's own. However hindsight is 20/20 and who knows what the Middle East would've looked like with him still in power. For all we know there could've been a Nuclear Arms race between Iran and Iraq.

 

Exactly. And for the wrong reasons, which made it worse.

 

Bush: "Saddam tried to kill my daddy years ago so I'm gonna git him back and wrongfully convince everybody that he was responsible for 9/11 (by slapping WMD labels on random satellite images that any first-grader could have photoshopped or Microsoft Paint-ed for that matter) to use it as an excuse to justify going over there to git him derp dee derp."

 

I honestly don't really think that that was the reason we went to Iraq. I think that the intelligence was wrong. Also I feel that Cheney probably egged Bush on... he definitely seemed like the person who was into going to war IMO

I think that the intelligence was wrong.

Time for us to get some more intelligent intelligence if that's the case. :lol:

Time for us to get some more intelligent intelligence if that's the case. :lol:

 

haha very true.

 

I think when it comes to war that intelligence must be perfect, and also that all other options have been exhausted

This one is certainly more opportunist.

/off topic, although I'm sure I could work it round to money.

I really wish I knew what to think of my own country in this case

Asked as devil's advocate once more

 

What of the Libyans who do not what major involvement from other countries and are wary of our motives? Could it no be dangerous? We have a habit of creating enemies by 'helping' others.

 

Absolutely. That is the dilemma perhaps but after hearing of 3 children killed by Gadaffi's forces today it's the small things like that which are hard to ignore. That has to be tackled.

I am hearing some US Congressman say that Obama could be impeached for taking action in Libya without going to Congress first.

 

I don't know what the laws are like in the US - but if Bush was not impeached than I don't think Obama should be impeached.

I am hearing some US Congressman say that Obama could be impeached for taking action in Libya without going to Congress first.

 

I don't know what the laws are like in the US - but if Bush was not impeached than I don't think Obama should be impeached.[/color]

 

Well, impeached technically means simply "to bring charges against". It does not mean they will get thrown out of office. Most people assume they are one in the same, but they are not. Bill Clinton was impeached, but he didn't get kicked out (he was acquitted by the Senate).

 

I haven't heard about the details you are referring to yet, but if that's true, the situation with Bush was a bit different. The President has some overriding powers in certain 'times of war' or something like that; I don't think that threshold was passed with the Libya situation, so that is the difference.

Going in seems right considering the state of the place. I just feel like we don't need Another extended war. Like other people here said, it's leaving at the right time that is hardest.

Well, impeached technically means simply "to bring charges against". It does not mean they will get thrown out of office. Most people assume they are one in the same, but they are not. Bill Clinton was impeached, but he didn't get kicked out (he was acquitted by the Senate).

 

I haven't heard about the details you are referring to yet, but if that's true, the situation with Bush was a bit different. The President has some overriding powers in certain 'times of war' or something like that; I don't think that threshold was passed with the Libya situation, so that is the difference.

 

 

oh okay,

thanks for explaining

 

I don't know the full Obama situation yet, the details are still coming out.