Thought this was interesting, though don't know how much debate it will spark. How is it affecting you guys in America? And also elsewhere?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13338754

 

 

Rising petrol prices in the US are expected to be one of the key issues in the 2012 presidential election. But Americans still pay half what Europeans fork out on the forecourt. So why is it such a big deal?

 

Whatever bounce President Barack Obama has received from Osama Bin Laden's demise, there is a widespread belief that his fortunes at the ballot box in 18 months will be decided by two things.

 

Gas and jobs.

 

 

While the latest employment situation appears to be mixed - figures last week suggested both jobs and jobless rose in number - the president will be closely monitoring feelings on the forecourts of petrol stations across the US.

 

A survey published on Sunday by Lundberg said the price of a gallon of petrol, known as gas to Americans, had hit a nationwide average of $4 (£2.40), just 11 cents short of the record high in 2008 at the height of the financial crisis.

 

There has been some respite since the weekend, with prices reportedly falling by five cents in some places, but the anger felt by drivers shows no sign of abating.

 

At Tyson's Corner Center, a huge shopping mall in northern Virginia, motorist after motorist said it was hurting them in everything they did - the commute, the weekly shop or the school run.

 

And worryingly for the faltering economic recovery - and the president - they said they were being forced to cut back on other spending to pay for gas.

 

The issue is so important that it is rarely out of the news, with TV bulletins continually monitoring the prices and analysts always on hand to discuss the consequences.

 

In Europe, prices are roughly double the US due to the tax, but the anger is not so palpable, and almost certainly not about to influence elections. A protest planned in the UK at the weekend drew only a fraction the number expected.

 

So what is it about the American relationship with gas that makes it such an important issue?

 

Americans use their cars more, so the pain is greater. They have, on average, a longer daily commute than all Europeans, except Hungarians and Romanians, and they have longer traffic jams.

 

But there is also a symbolic significance about gas that goes to the heart of what America is.

 

It signifies mobility, freedom and personal liberty, says Dan Neil, motoring correspondent on the Wall Street Journal.

 

"Anger is probably more tied up with a wider sense of decline and also a loss of privilege.

 

"Cheap gas has been one of the prerogatives of the American Empire so people have become accustomed to it in a way which is somehow associated with our ability to wield our will around the world.

 

"We're mad because we've spent a lot of money in the Middle East and made a lot of enemies and defended a lot of tyrants and still gas prices go up."

 

And knowing that the British pay double won't make Americans feel any better, he adds.

 

"Americans are not aware of what the rest of the world pays for gas. We are a very big, inward-looking domestic market. We don't watch soccer, we don't watch French movies and we don't really care what the Europeans pay for their gas.

 

"It's a very big country and the entire infrastructure is predicated on scandalously cheap energy. Everything we do is big - business, agriculture, entertainment.

 

"Where we live, where we play, all of that is predicated on cheap gas, so when the price of gas goes up, it really cuts to the heart of the American way of life."

 

The long-term solutions, he says, would involve a huge investment in rail, an overhaul of the infrastructure and a change in mindset - not events that happen overnight.

 

In the UK, there is no sign that the nationwide fuel protests by lorry drivers 11 years ago will be repeated soon, despite petrol now being double the price.

 

At the weekend, a protest at an oil refinery in Stanlow, near Cheshire, failed to draw the 1,000 vehicles expected. Instead there were little more than 100.

 

"The reason why the British public are more sanguine [than Americans] is firstly because that's their nature," says motoring expert and broadcaster Quentin Willson.

 

"And secondly, the fuel protests of 2000 will never happen again because the cops have got wise to it. Haulage companies have been told that if they start blocking refineries, they'll lose licences."

 

But the anger is there, says Mr Willson, who led a delegation to Downing Street to complain about fuel duty, and people are near breaking point.

 

They are stopping him in the street to complain, he says, and some are having to choose between food and fuel.

 

Petrol sales are down by a fifth in the last year and breakdowns due to tanks running empty are up by 17% in the same period.

 

"We're on the cusp of social unrest," he predicts.

 

But petrol is unlikely to define a UK election. In the US, gas prices are a bellwether of consumer confidence, says Mr Neil, and will be more influential in 2012 than Bin Laden.

 

Republicans blame Obama for gas prices, while Democrats blame oil companies, and they're both wrong, he says. It's more complex, to do with US oil refineries running at capacity and speculators driving up the price of crude oil.

 

 

The one key driver behind rising prices is the price of crude oil, says John Felmy, chief economist at the American Petroleum Institute.

 

It's increased in price by about $1.20 a gallon since August, he says, driven by increased global demand, especially in China and India, where more and more people are driving cars.

 

The portion of tax imposed by the federal government has not risen for several years, but there's a big variation between states, illustrated on the CNN website, which reflects the duties imposed by states.

 

Rising oil prices mean bigger profits. Last month, Texas-based oil company Exxon announced profits of $10.7bn (£6.4bn), up 69% on last year. There was an outcry, given the pain felt by motorists.

 

Mr Obama has said he wants Congress to end the $4bn in annual tax breaks for the oil and gas industry.

 

Although this won't affect prices at the pumps, he wants the money to be invested in clean energy sources.

 

But some of his critics say he should be doing more to liberate restrictions on American drilling.

 

Either way, as long as American drivers are feeling the pain at the pumps, the president will be wary of how that pain will play out at the polls.

Maybe the better way to compare it is to compare how much people spend on gas per week, as opposed to per gallon/liter.

 

Right now I spend about $60 per week on gas, or about £40. I'd say that's average around here. Some people that I work with live further from work than I do, they probably spend about $100 per week (£60).

 

What about you guys across the pond? What's your average weekly expense on gas?

I was about to post the same article, because I was interested to note how little is paid in tax across the US compared to EU nations. As the report says, US citizens are unaware of what their counterparts across the pond are paying, and maybe they will only find out if there is widespread European condemnation and protesting (and I mean on a very big scale), which won't happen anyway.

My parents put in more than that. I'll ask them this evening how much exactly.

On average the Americans will pay more, but it just goes to show they didn't need all that land :p

$4 a gallon is expensive, still nowhere bad as what it's like here though, I love how the Government said at the start they were going to end the war on motorists that the previous Government started, have they?, like fuck they have the ****s.

but it just goes to show they didn't need all that land :p

:lol: Yeah that's it.

 

You have no idea how much I wish we had the equivalent of the Underground here. They do in New York City, but that's about it. I wouldn't have to spend all that time/money driving, and while I'm being transported I'd have time to do little tasks like reading, etc.. But even if they started breaking ground on an Underground today, it wouldn't be completed for at least 10 years, so that's not going to help me much.

People are angry for a bunch of reasons. Firstly the bad economy. People are already having to make budgets and something like gas prices there's no control over and either way you need to get to work one way or another. Second reason is that Americans are unaware of a lot of things that are happening in the world because the media blocks it out. I recently found out (actually from you greg on msn) that that's how much gas was and I couldn't believe it. I think if the whole country knew how much it cost the rest of the world we might not complain as much... well... actually we still probably would...haha. Lastly it's because of changes and not spending money. Americans are greedy that way. We want everything but don't want to spend the money. It's like the economy, Americans don't want to raise taxes at all, yet want to continue spending programs... in the end it's not going to work out as we've seen. So a price hike from like $2 to $4 is a big deal. Luckily my jobs are not too far so I don't have to travel much, but it still adds up.

 

 

To what Carrie asked for the Subway and the Buses it costs $2.25 for a fare. For taxis I'm not sure. And then Metro North Train (takes people to and from the city to the suburbs), is like 7.75 off peak, and like 9.25 on peak. Either way transportation is expensive.

I think they mainly complain because many people are limited to the use of cars and therefore use it more often.

The public transport seems to be pretty restricted in many places in the States.

That doesn't mean that people would use it more if it were more developed or cheaper. :P

Because we have to fill the last 15 minutes of time on the news? :shrug: Also because we have nothing else to complain about.

I'll point out that the title of the thread was the title of the article. It's not me having a go at anyone.

 

 

This part made me think they need to perhaps concentrate on some 'greener' ways of enjoying life:

 

Where we live, where we play, all of that is predicated on cheap gas, so when the price of gas goes up, it really cuts to the heart of the American way of life.

also I think it's because us Americans are also spoiled and feel we have some sense of entitlement for cheaper gas.

 

It'd be nice though for people to use cars less and actually go for a walk or biking... maybe then we'd no longer be the country with the most obese and lazy people :lol:

I honestly think the size of America is one of the problems. You've spread yourself too thin and therefore there is fuck all to do (or at least you think so) without travelling since that's what you've been used to for as long as posters on this board will remember. I don't like being in a car longer than an hour maximum. If it's longer than that and it's not for something amazing then I'll just do something else.

 

For things like work then it's obviously different.

Libya have oil reserves don't they. Just sayin'.

:laugh3:

I honestly think the size of America is one of the problems. You've spread yourself too thin and therefore there is fuck all to do (or at least you think so) without travelling since that's what you've been used to for as long as posters on this board will remember. I don't like being in a car longer than an hour maximum. If it's longer than that and it's not for something amazing then I'll just do something else.

 

For things like work then it's obviously different.

Yeah I'd agree with that for the most part. Just the lower peninsula of Michigan (yeah there's 2 pieces even though we often ignore the yoopers) is about the same size as all of England... and that's only one State out of 50. When I go on vacation to the west side of the State, it's usually about a 3-4 hour drive. My parents are retired and now split their time between the vacation home and 'home home', about every two weeks they drive that distance.

 

And one revelation that has surprised some people I've talked to here, is how few Americans have passports. But thinking about it, many citizens probably think, "why should I spend money on a passport when I can just travel to somewhere else in the U.S." http://www.theexpeditioner.com/2010/02/17/how-many-americans-have-a-passport-2/

 

In regard to work, on average it takes me about 40 minutes each way. During the winter (or had rush hour) it's more like an hour. When there's a foot of snow and/or ice in the winter, there's times when it has taken me 3 hours. Fun fun (in my best Rebecca Black voice).

Long car rides are the best though :wacky:

I'm angry because it all has to do with monetary policy and credit supply.

 

Oil shouldn't be at the price it's at due to supply and demand. It's all about credit and speculation. You add a couple trillion dollars to the world's money supply and what happens? Prices go up, then excess money for investment isn't invested in the small things that bring in low interest. With rates so low saving money isn't worth it, and most investments aren't paying much, so speculation and risk is the only way in an artificially high credit economy to make a quick profit.

 

So hedge funds and major banks speculate commodities up way above supply and demand prices. Why did oil contract from 147 a barrel to around 30 in the 2008 crash? Credit and the monetary supply shrank drastically, thus the main fuel for the high fuel prices was cut off and prices dropped.

 

Demand is still down while supply is up yet prices are close to all time highs....it's all about funny money from the Federal Reserve.

 

Wait for the 3rd round of money printing and bond buying to start later this summer or fall and see prices go even higher after a small contraction between the two bond purchasing programs.

 

Oh and with the real estate bubble popping in China, money will probably flow even more into commodities, it's gotta go somewhere after created. And sitting in a bank it doesn't get much return.

 

So when you fill up your tank and it breaks your wallet, thank Ben Bernacke at the Fed for his few trillion printed and higher prices....he's making out nicely along with his friends in the banking sector on the backs of the lower and middle class who bare the burden he creates.

 

Anyone tell how much I really hate the Fed? Fucking us over so they and their friends can stay rich. They're evil pure.

 

Bubbles only come from excess money via money supply and/or credit supply. It's created and has to flow into some sector, artificially driving up prices, skewing supply and demand. And causing malinvestments into sectors that shouldn't be, while healthy ones necessary for the economy are neglected. All that money and credit supply that went into sectors that are only there due to excess money could have been used to invest in things we actually need...medical, new factories and technology.

Long car rides are the best though :wacky:

they're certainly more fuel efficient than being stuck in traffic that's for sure.

It would be much better if there were more subways under the cities when they were designed and more railroads things instead of trucks. Many of the railroads were torn down, and I heard of talk of rebuilding them if gas prices get worse. The increase of fuel price will increase the price of goods. I don't have a car and don't like being in such a car country, but I have to adjust to it. I have always been interested in how Europeans live in a way to adjust to life being so expensive and their lifestyle to this. It cost $1.50 to take a bus to downtown LA, but probably $4 by car.

That's a good point Nick. That's another point that people are annoyed with is that the prices are changing completely on speculation rather than supply and demand.

petrol here is on average $1.50/litre and it fluctuates through the week. on what basis do they fluctuate? no idea. it used to go up on the weekends and down midweek.

 

i don't mind public transport around sydney because i have a student concession pass that halves my costs. otherwise a train to the city would set me back about $8 each way. if i drive the 35km instead it will take a little under an hour and cost me about the same in petrol or I could half my travel time and take the motorway and pay $10 in tolls.

 

but the general cost of living here is very high but i guess that's the price you pay for living in a city as good as this.

But even if they started breaking ground on an Underground today, it wouldn't be completed for at least 10 years, so that's not going to help me much.

 

Haha, booooooo, it's thinking like this that stops those in power doing anything other than what will benefit them in the short time they are in power.

 

You have no idea how much I wish we had the equivalent of the Underground here. They do in New York City, but that's about it. much.

 

LA has a subway too but you couldn't pay me enough to go on that, the thought of there being an earthquake while I was on it scares me too much.

Haha, booooooo, it's thinking like this that stops those in power doing anything other than what will benefit them in the short time they are in power.

 

It is true. It seems like we could care less about doing something for the benefits of the long-term and just look for quick fixes.

 

LA has a subway too but you couldn't pay me enough to go on that, the thought of there being an earthquake while I was on it scares me too much.

 

For me for the NYC Subway I'd be more afraid about getting mugged (depends what area of the city you are in) or there being like a terrorist attack or something.

Can we just blame Obama already for this?