So it is possible... this needs to be spread, so police elsewhere feels safer to do the same.

The police in Albany, New York defied order of Gov. Cuomo to arrest their local occupiers. Whooo.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/24/new-york-cops-defy-order-to-arrest-hundreds-of-occupy-protesters/

http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Under-pressure-to-make-arrests-police-and-2232934.php#ixzz1bhYjL6xj

 

Quote: With protesters acting peacefully, local and state police agreed that low level arrests could cause a riot, so they decided instead to defy Cuomo and Jennings.

“We don’t have those resources, and these people were not causing trouble,” a state official said. “The bottom line is the police know policing, not the governor and not the mayor.”

The police are afraid of retaliation... very good.

 

Although I'm confident most of these "occupy" protestors don't have guns, unfortunately.

>> first I just wanted to say "thank you" to Yangarin for the cool video of Occupy Miami - many, many thanks!! Super Cool :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

 

So it is possible... this needs to be spread, so police elsewhere feels safe to do the same.

The police in Albany, New York defied order of Cuomo to arrest their local occupiers. Whooo.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/24/new-york-cops-defy-order-to-arrest-hundreds-of-occupy-protesters/

http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Under-pressure-to-make-arrests-police-and-2232934.php#ixzz1bhYjL6xj

 

Quote: With protesters acting peacefully, local and state police agreed that low level arrests could cause a riot, so they decided instead to defy Cuomo and Jennings.

“We don’t have those resources, and these people were not causing trouble,” a state official said. “The bottom line is the police know policing, not the governor and not the mayor.”

> Hm, from this article in the Buffalo news Unmoved Albany protesters add Cuomo to their list of concerns - Albany - The Buffalo News

And a quote from the article gives us a clue:

"Over the weekend, aides to Cuomo sought to pressure Albany Mayor Jerry Jennings to evict the demonstrators—with police force if necessary. The one-block park is half state owned and half city owned.

Demonstrators Friday night moved entirely into the city-owned portion. On Monday, Occupy Albany organizers said the city — including police — have been supportive, dropping off rakes, blankets and other supplies.

“A lot of people applaud Jennings. I commend him for being a human being. He’s no puppet,” said Egnor, as he cleaned up the park. Nearby, about three dozen tents had been erected."

Which sounds encouraging! Good for Mayor Jennings and the police in Albany - they are on the side of justice then in this country, I am proud of their stand against the dictates of Governor Cuomo, and their stand for the citizens of our nation and of the world. Strange that Cuomo would try and block the protests, after all, he was such a strong supporter of the criminal justice system, why doesn't he take the criminals on Wall Street to task, and pressure the Federal Government to investigate more, and expand the white-collar crime division? I'm beginning to see why the white collar division is so poorly funded...

Micro-management, to block the peaceable assembly and free speech of ordinary citizens, shows clearly then that the corrupting effect goes right to highest elected officials - never could the case for campaign finance reform be greater, the need for amendments stronger, to nail down the cause of the problem and let justice proceed and fair elections rule the country.

I am beginning to warm to the idea of direct democracy - allow citizens to propose legislation to be put on the ballot for the Federal Government, and then put it up to a popular vote. Perhaps not always perfect outcomes, but this method seems to work well in Switzerland and in California.

Ows Oakland got violently evicted too. Peaceful protesters again, shot at with rubber bullets.

Here's some footage of it. I watched it, trying to be unbiased. The last seconds are incredible.

Police shoot something slightly explosive it seems into a crowd of people trying to help a person on the ground.

This is very wrong.

 

edit: Police said demonstrators had started throwing objects at them. This is when us peaceful protesters got in serious trouble with

armored water cannon trucks, because some rascals threw stuff at them. I could never blame the police in such situations.

This of course would put it all in another light.

Hope truth can be found out.

Gautama, have you heard of an "agent provocateur"? Look it up. Police use them a lot here in the US.

Yes, I know what they are there for. Is that a fact though, that they use agents provocateurs?

It's getting rather tense in the US, Mike/theGloaming saw that coming two weeks ago.

 

edit: I asked wiki, seems to be a fact.

Ows Oakland got violently evicted too. Peaceful protesters again, shot at with rubber bullets.

Here's some footage of it. I watched it, trying to be unbiased. The last seconds are incredible.

Police shoot something slightly explosive it seems into a crowd of people trying to help a person on the ground.

This is very wrong.

 

edit: Police said demonstrators had started throwing objects at them. This is when us peaceful protesters got in serious trouble with

armored water cannon trucks, because some rascals threw stuff at them. I could never blame the police in such situations.

This of course would put it all in another light.

Hope truth can be found out.

> Nothing like a police state being questioned for supporting a criminal enterprise - reminds me of Nixon's paranoia against protesters.. it's plausible that they provoke in order to permit themselves to act the way they do, but even so, to all involved? Heavy handed, in my mind, even if there are some real anarchists committing violence, then go after them, not the whole crowd.

And it's quite plausible that agent provocateurs are there, it would be an easy thing to pull off and fool the "unbiased" press, lol. I wouldn't put it past the people in power - just thinking about the actions of Governors in some states, who wanted all the protests broken up (Cuomo comes to mind)..

Police shooting something explosive into a crowd? Well, they argued it was fireworks going off from the protesters, but someone really got hit - an Iraqi war veteran - shot in the head with some projectile by the police, send to the hospital and in critical condition in Oakland.

Yes, I hope the truth is found out!

 

 

I think anyone would see it to be honest. People are increasingly getting tired of being taken advantage of and want a fair playing ground. I mean honestly... the whole greed of wall street and the banks getting bailed out and still getting record profits and bonuses is disgusting. I'm almost surprised that people started protesting so recently.

 

The use of violence by the police is just a bullying tactic. The governments just want to suppress the people even though they protest peacefully.

 

I hate to say it but I just see things getting worse in the months. Little does the governments know that the use of violence against peaceful protesters just aggravates and makes more people angry and upset.

I think anyone would see it to be honest. People are increasingly getting tired of being taken advantage of and want a fair playing ground. I mean honestly... the whole greed of wall street and the banks getting bailed out and still getting record profits and bonuses is disgusting. I'm almost surprised that people started protesting so recently.

 

The use of violence by the police is just a bullying tactic. The governments just want to suppress the people even though they protest peacefully.

 

I hate to say it but I just see things getting worse in the months. Little does the governments know that the use of violence against peaceful protesters just aggravates and makes more people angry and upset.

> Yes, I was thinking that too - it's as though the police are defending a state run criminal enterprise, perhaps some unwittingly so, some unwillingly so, but in reality, all the crimes that have been committed and have gone unchecked, it's ridiculous, and the very people who caused the collapse were put in charge of the restructuring? Completely absurd. Then they sock it to everyone else for their misdeeds - massive unemployment, higher taxes for the working classes, huge student debts, corporate greed and control run amok.

Yes, it is disgusting - and look who's pulling the political strings behind the scenes - it's those who should be held accountable, those who have committed these crimes.. I am disgusted as well with the whole situation today.

And yes, that's true to - nothing galvanizes the citizens faster of better than brutal police repression under the dictates of an Orwellian state.

Power to the People!

:bandana:

 

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Myqffx8Mdg4]An Open Message to the 99% (Occupy Wall Street) - YouTube[/ame]

Interesting video... I think i've seen videos by that guy before.

 

 

 

Part of me hopes for change and more fairness towards the average person in this country and around the world. but i feel that with so much power held over what is controlled that it seems almost impossible to make a difference. Even if you were to try to boycott all the powerful companies and banks that people would have to give in eventually. I hope I'm wrong and I wish that these rich bastards are brought to justice for fucking the world up out of their own greed.

...however just thinking about my point... I feel that this movement is the kind that will grow until solutions are met. I mean with people out of work and looking for jobs and with our increasing debt I don't see this as a problem that will just disappear. Unless politicians, companies and government gets it's act together and changes things then these protests will continue.

Well the changes will occur, I have no doubt about that. The elite are just trying to push them off further into the future, for as long as possible.

 

The point of the video is that the elite will use their old playbook, The Hegelian Dialectic, to consolidate power after a collapse. But I'm not so sure it will work this time, with the internet... which is like the Gutenburg Press of our day.

I watched the video, and I think the answer isn't in reducing taxes to almost nil, I think the answer is to end the buying of the elections by the moneyed elites. Even if we want to shrink the size of government, we can only do that if we are in charge of it, and to do that, we need to be able to hear openly, equally, and freely from all registered candidates running for office, and put an end to the revolving doors. Declare that money is not free speech so we can limit the excesses of spending on political campaigns, declare that corporations are not people so there isn't some back-door way for the powerful few to funnel huge sums of money into campaigns and act as individuals petitioning the government for a redress of grievances. It's their Trojan Horse, the corporation as a front for their control from within.

But if all this money is flowing into TV ads, radio ads, and internet pitches, plus the marketing of candidates using the commercial TV "news", then clearly that is the one thing which misinforms and misleads citizens into making poor choices from a set of candidates who are largely beholden to the powerful special interests.

Why poke at the edges, when the dragon is right there before us?

Well the changes will occur, I have no doubt about that. The elite are just trying to push them off further into the future, for as long as possible.

 

The point of the video is that the elites will use their old playbook, The Hegelian Dialectic, to consolidate power after a collapse. But I'm not so sure it will work this time, with the internet... which is like the Gutenburg Press of our day.

>> True, well said, if enough people use the internet vs. believing what their TV's tell them, that is. But it becomes unavoidable eventually, when the pinch happens to so many, and the news simply cannot avoid discussions on the topic.

It is the combination of factors which has propelled so many to the streets - the unemployment, the high student debts, the global revolutions, the awareness that the crime of the century has been committed and gotten away with, and all those victims - the millions who have lost their homes, the endless wars, which still go on under other pretexts.

I find the idea of the issues surrounding the Fed and the banks intriguing, but to me even to address those issues, we must first have a system where honest candidates who truly believe in their oath to protect preserve and defend the Constitution are given equal time and access to the public square of the day.

Although I'm confident most of these "occupy" protestors don't have guns, unfortunately.

 

Omg, Saffire, not that again. That's so foolish and dangerous.

High time you study non violent resistance.

 

"True non-violence is mightier than the mightiest violence." Mahatma Ghandi

 

Think about it, thoroughly, man. This is simply the truth. It sure takes a lot of nerves at times, but it is utterly awesome and the

maturest form of protest. Less casualties, it creates a more sustainable peace....

doppelpost

Think about it, thoroughly, man. This is simply the truth. It sure takes a lot of nerves at times, but it is utterly awesome and mature.

There are less casualties, and it creates a more sustainable peace.

 

Well of course I am pro-peace and very non-violent (I'm a voluntaryist).

 

But I think it's very important for everyone to have a gun, and have it visible during protests.

 

The whole idea of "non-violent protest" is a 20th century elite meme. After all, if you were in a government, you wouldn't want protestors to have guns, would you? ;)

 

"Power" is defined as an imbalance of strength. When you have a disarmed population (like Germany's), the government is all-powerful. When everyone is equally powerful, the potential for rights violations is lessened.

 

There's a good quote by Thomas Jefferson along these lines - "When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

I never really thought about it that way but I guess it makes sense.

 

However wouldn't people be arrested automatically by bringing a firearm?

People gotta start beating down on these motherfucking police. I saw the footage, it was disgusting. Police walking up to peaceful protesters and fucking them up with tear gas and batons.

 

They should fully expect someone to do the same to them. That's what I can't stand about the Western world - when a copper gets assaulted by someone, the whole country goes into outrage. But when a police officer wrongfully assaults an innocent person (Which happens WAY more than everyone realises) barely anyone says anything.

 

If you give it out, you gotta expect to take it back. If they want to go around cracking people's heads in - they can't take the moral high ground if someone gives it back to them.

 

I like the police 90% of the time, but it's shit like this that pisses me off about them. They really are the monkeys of the powerful. These people are out there protesting for economic equity and these police - the VERY people the protesters are trying to help - are going around smacking their shit up.

 

As if anyone on wall street gives a shit about the police. Why the hell are the police fighting against their interests? They should be right there, shoulder to shoulder with the civilians!

 

You have to seriously question the character of a man who blindly accepts orders that hurt innocent people. Fuck the police.

 

That's all I have to say. :)

I never really thought about it that way but I guess it makes sense.

 

However wouldn't people be arrested automatically by bringing a firearm?

 

I'm not sure what the local laws are on open-carry, but I think if enough people do it at once, you wouldn't see enforcement.

 

It's a tricky thing - nobody will ever agree on everything. But it's important for the police to occasionally be reminded that there is a very real possibility of retaliation if the public views their actions as counterproductive. This isn't about a war with the cops, just a friendly reminder that they aren't slaveholders.

People gotta start beating down on these motherfucking police. I saw the footage, it was disgusting. Police walking up to peaceful protesters and fucking them up with tear gas and batons.

 

Have you read the accounts of why the police used tear gas and batons in the first place? The protestors were acting as agitators, throwing bottles, rocks and firecrackers (along with other potentially dangerous objects) at the police. This went on several times before the police finally responded.

 

I'm not saying police should be absolved from any blame - personally I do think the use of tear gas was a bit extreme, despite the conditions turning hostile. But let's not pretend the protestors are simply the victims in all of this.

Oh no! Men wearing helmets and bulletproof vests were almost hit by bottles and rocks!

 

Yeah I guess the whole tear gas thing is a *bit* extreme, considering it's banned in warfare by the Geneva convention but apparently it's still legal to use it on citizens.

Oh no! Men wearing helmets and bulletproof vests were almost hit by bottles and rocks!

 

I'm guessing by this statement that you've never been on the other side of riot prevention control situations, how terrifying and nerve-wrecking it gets despite the "helmets and bulletproof vests" (I also like how you blatantly ignore that the protestors also threw firecrackers + chemicals among other things).

 

It's one thing to be sitting behind the comforts of your computer, making anonymous snarky comments and it's another to have experienced real riots and understand the atmosphere of violence and intimidation often manufactured by the protestors (obviously not limited to OWS).

 

In fact, I have to start questioning how many protests you've even been to, considering the majority of your posts are simply derivative of Ron Paul talking points and pure ideological blindness that is impractical in the real world.