chuck kottke

The Link for the program is:NOVA | The Incredible Journey of the Butterflies | PBS :flutterby::wink:

Hello Isabella!:) Poverty in the region has driven many to illegally log the big trees in the mountains in this region of Mexico, and the trees are essential for the butterflies survival. Hence, a better economy = less logging pressure (I hope!).

Not exactly endangered Bryce, but it could be if things keep getting worse. The monarch is an unusual butterfly, in that it migrates from as far north as Canada, down to central Mexico, and over-winters in huddled masses on the trunks of trees in the mountains there. Big trees are essential for it's survival, as the moderated warmth of the trunk keeps the monarchs from freezing at night, and also the shade of the canopy keeps them from getting too hot during the day. So, as poor families search for a means of survival, they illegally cut trees at night - unfortunately, the biggest, old-growth trees necessary for the butterflies' warming pads. It's quite a site to see, incidentally. The tree trunks are literally completely covered with these beautiful butterflies; NOVA just ran a science special on it = I'll search for a link...

Some creative efforts take time to find their full appreciation. U2's v. of The Beatles' White Album, anyone??:cool:

Wait a minute here - Lore, has thou gone to the Dark Side?? :stunned:

:flutterby::flutterby::flutterby::flutterby::flutterby::flutterby::flutterby::flutterby::flutterby::flutterby::flutterby::flutterby::flutterby::flutterby::flutterby::flutterby::flutterby::flutterby::flutterby::flutterby: It's Time to save the Monarch Butterfly!:):flutterby: Alright, here's the chance to prove Einstein right and pay homage to Rachel Carson: Let's put the power of our imaginations to work figuring out ways to save the monarch butterfly!! A few I've been thinking of..: (1) Save wetlands, and encourage milkweed to grow (2) Grow a patch of milkweed and flowers in your yard or garden! (3) Save the Mexican economy, so less pressure is put on logging in the forest home of the monarchs (4) Pour & erect concrete "tree trunks" in the new tree growth where recent logging has occurred, so there's plenty of warm thermal masses for the butterflies to cling to (that can never be cut).

Welcome Troy! The Greek Mainland isn't far off the coast of New Zealand, in a relativistic sense!:)

Thanks Bryce! But that's assuming we pass current levels and reach some 'peak'; which is probably inevitable at this point in time, the way things go. But, there are ideas! Water the deserts with desalinated ocean water. Bring sand and crushed rock to raise the levels of those island nations. Build giant dikes to save coastal cities. Tow the icebergs to Australia, blast them into small pieces, and haul them to the dry interior! Do the same for all the world's deserts. I still think it's early claims that are being made. Maybe if we use enough ground limestone, we can help neutralize the oceans, and add mineral nutrients to stimulate phytoplankton, etc. Reforest more areas, and grow crops that hold more carbon, like prairie grasses and plants. With enough solar power, we could even remove CO2 from the atmosphere, convert it to stored carbon, and put it back into the ground. Or, more likely, some of the easier things will be done (ocean neutralizing and fertilizing, first on a test basis), and watering the deserts. The rest we'll have to adapt to - we're actually amazing at doing that, but the real loss will be the diversity of life. Still, have hope in humankind's ingenuity. Maybe that and really huge parks with lots of sprinklers..

Go with the supportive girl - feels better than either the global warming or the Prime Minister's position!;) Global Warming is irreversible for the next 1000 years? Hmm.. Well, that assumes we can't do something about it. There's everything from adding mineral supplements to the ocean, to cloud forming technologies, and other changes we could make (reforesting areas, i.e.) as well. But it's one complex set of simultaneous equations, and I'm guessing that given the nature of chaotic tipping points, we might not quite have it down to a perfectly predicable level. But I could be wrong - it's amazing what we already do know. Looking at -33C this morning, I would very much appreciate a little local "global warming" for a change!:laugh3:

Obama needs to fund long-term investments in solar cell production concurrent with energy efficiency programs - put people to work doing what matters most. Better methods, newer technologies, and ramp it up 100X.

Thanks Bryce! Just my odd world view, if ever this world were to make sense.. How do you manage in the countryside down yonder?

Hello All!:) Dr. Bunsen Honeydew here, with another breakthrough!:laugh3: I'm an earth-friendly nut, so naturally, I'm always searching for the answer to a better way - so that nobody needs to be harmed making the stuff we all enjoy, and so the general environment is healthier, and things like Polar Bears, even if we have to give them man-made ice cubes to stroll around on, manage to survive without the mercury and toxic chemicals in their systems. So, in my wanderings, I've always been perplex by a contradiction: Those of us who are eco-geeks like the super-efficient homes and appliances, and like the solar panels, batteries, and attendant hardware for all this nifty eco-home stuff to work, and make our carbon footprint go down (and save us some dough in the long run as well). But, unfortunately you can't just yet have your sun and keep it neatly bottled in an eco-friendly way. Until now. Since silicon solar cells are the mainstay, and since they're made from one virtually inexaustible supply of silica (quartz, sand, quartzite, etc.), containing the earth-friendly plentiful element Si, they look like they'll be here to stay. But how are they made?? Magic? Well, almost. They're made by using relatively pure silica as the base ingredient, and carbon, which is reacted to yield impure elemental silicon. Then, this 'metallurgical grade' silicon in reacted with halogens (chlorine, for example) to form one of several compounds which can be distilled ultra-pure, and then reduced back to silicon. Melted and crystalized, sliced thin, polished, bonbarded with ions in a vacuum, bombarded with nitrogen atoms, and to make a long story short, the modern silicon solar cell is produced. What's not earth-friendly about the process? Well, for one, it takes a lot of carbon, and generates greenhouse gases. Then the refining requires the production, transport, and consumption of vast quantities of chlorine gas, and some toxic intermediates in the purification. So, the search is on for a better method - one that's less risky, less demanding of carbon, and less energy intense (for better payback). Lo and behold, some enterprising chemical investigators discovered that molten salt baths can be used to electrolytically separate all sorts of things, from Calcium metal to Titanium to Silicon, and at a reasonable purity! All it takes is some of the right basic salts, some carbon electrodes, and lots of electricity (but maybe less than the other methods). The FFC Cambridge process is what this relatively new process is termed, and it's quite promising, if not already in production, perhaps it should be! Here's a bit on it:New silicon production method with no carbon reductant But is it really the answer, or are there some bugs? Can it yield the purity required of silicon to meet the solar cell's requirements? These are still questions to be answered. Basically, for eco-homes that are solar-electric or wind-electric, the intermittancy of the energy requires storage devices, and the low voltages require lots of heavy wire and inverters. What that means in terms of the materials is currently unacceptable to be feasable for more citizens, and to be free of the environmentally risky mining and refining methods for these elements. Consider this: A solar/wind powered home might require 800# of lead, 300# of copper, .01 oz. gold, .1 oz tantalum, and will have required vast amounts of chlorine gas to be produced, many pounds of carbon for the silicon, in addition to hundreds of pounds of iron, aluminum, zinc coatings, plastics, etc. to make it all work. A similar non-eco home may require almost no lead, 150# copper, and almost no gold or tantalum for the initial power supply, and much less iron, aluminum, zinc coatings, and plastics, but does require a power plant, a share of which uses other resources attribitable to this house's needs. One could argue that the coal being burned to power the home gives up it's load of lead and mercury (and other metals), and the fly-ash/scrubber wastes contain in a matter of years just as much lead, plus the mercury. And one could also argue that the detriment to the envrionment is much less for the solar/wind powered home in that the carbon foorprint is so much less as to make up for the rest. This might be the case, but even so, is it a destination, or just a beginning? My way of thinking is that we need to complete the circle, and minimize risky rare materials. We want the hot pizza and the cold beverage, not the copper wire! So I began to approach things from a broad perspective, and discovered that we can have the best of both worlds. Instead of nickel or lead in batteries, choose lithium or carbon nanotubes. Instead of copper conductors, use aluminum conductors where applicable. Eco-friendly plastics can substitute for much of the zinc-coated conduit, and gold can be recycled from the waste electronics, and minimized wherever else it is needed. Even tantalum has replacements in carbon film capacitors and the like. In short, a better path is there, if we should so choose it. It is the better way forward.

Hmm.. How about a policy of promoting economic improvement in the region, so people on the edge have more to live for than strapping bombs to their bodies, or joining militant groups? Maybe promoting Women's Rights by funding schools and promoting business development and education? Or, is that too much to ask?? I've seen the problem, and yes, there's opression of women, education, and freedom in general in the Tribal regions, but: It seems to me local people only support 'terror' groups (extremists) when their world is in turmoil, they've had little opportunity outside of the confines of their close-knit groups, and they feel 'threatened' from without. Change is slow, so this is some sort of US PR thing it looks to be, unless the activities are strictly aimed at training camps, and work long-term improvements in helping people help themselves, it probably won't work too well.. Change comes from within, provided information and ideas are allowed from the outside.. Peaceful change is often the only true lasting change that's possible. You catch more flies with honey, and more converts with examples and steady help, than at the end of a stick.;)

Welcome shiny brand-new English Lukadastarz! :P This is a serious place. Better wear your helmet!:laugh3::builder2::biker::bobby::scholar:

What's with you people? Can't you see that Darkness Always Turns to Light!:P

My heart goes out to all those who are suffering in Gaza in the aftermath - we are all individuals, who feel pain when we are hurt, and know the hurt when we loose someone close to us.

If only Bono would call, I'm sure I've got a song or two they could adapt..:P

Did you catch a cold, or just wantin' a day off?:)

nope what? no to peanut-butter, or no to crunchy peanut-butter? sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't..:P

Welcome Back!!:)

Fair Trade Dark Chocolate is GooD!:vampire:

Someone's moved to Zimbabwe?:rolleyes: Peanut butter should be of a creamy consistency! Otherwise, it's just nuts.:P

I've seen the dark side - it's not that pretty! Turn back now, all of you, before it's too late!!!:P

:rolleyes::laugh3: Yes, Obama bonds! Guaranteed to yield better returns into the far off future! Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound! Not only are they secure, but they're backed by the full faith of Bono, and hey, if he's not God, then who else could be??:P

Have a pasti, and keep warm in Jolly England!:)