chuck kottke

It's gone to that level, has it... "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--for ever." --from Nineteen Eighty-Four. The British author George Orwell"

> Yes it is, yes it is. I think it's because of top-down orders from Governors and Mayors, pressuring local jurisdictions to follow their orders, and some of those in charge of the local jurisdictions are deciding for themselves what to do, and to allow the protest assemblies to continue. It varies a lot, probably that's why. Glad the police and legislature patrol are being supportive in your city Crests! That's the spirit we need!!:)

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One of The Best Dark Chocolates I've sampled is Dagoba: Dagoba Organic Chocolate Fair Trade or Sustainable, that's the Coldplay way! ;)

I believe things are coming round full circle, we're coming down to earth. Going up in space and coming down to earth at the same time.....................................

Just free thoughts.. I'm imagining a car body made from a honeycombed material, natural fibers for the matrix, lignin or another biopolymer as the resin or binder, shell of a layering of criss-crossed fibers and more biopolymers, finished with some new type of finish, which is naturally tough, weather-resistant, with colors that don't fade, yet made in sync with nature.. Interiors of natural and biopolymer materials as well - all healthier from beginning to end, and in the end, it can all be pelletized and used as a biofuel, or decomposed as compost, or broken down into a myriad of other useful materials.. Just dreaming

A day spent with neighbors, enjoying the company of good friends.

Bonjour and Welcome here! Keep international investigative journalism going strong!!;););)

Welcome Aboard ROBBIE63 :sunny::sunny::sunny:

Jay, great suggestion - Julian Assange would be the ideal person to be the leader of this global movement, and perhaps in some ways, he already is. And this quote of Jean-Claude Juncker, Prime Minister of Luxembourg which you posted is very close to what I heard from our former Governor Jim Doyle at a gathering. How true that is. "We all know what has to be done; what we don’t know is how to get re-elected once we've done it.” So I believe when the will of the people gets so strong and clearly focused, the elected officials will do the right thing so they can be re-elected, for doing otherwise will cost them the election. We managed to get a mining law passed that way, against the powerful interest groups, so it can be done. Q: Cobalt, "Let's just forget that police infiltration is common in these protests, parrotdies. I mean, they'd never do something questionable on undercover duty, right?" __________________ Cobalt, I think that's a good observation, and something to seriously consider - when I saw Perkin's "confessions of an economic hitman" I began to see just how far the powerful are willing to go to get their way - hired guns called jackals assassinating any elected officials who wouldn't go along with their demands, hired indirectly by powerful corporate interests - so they know no limits, that's for sure. If all was pure in this world, there would be no need for uprisings.

> Here's the problem - what do you do when a minority of protesters decide that violence is the solution, and arrive to a gathering aiming to commit acts of violence against the state apparatus? I saw scenes of non-violent protesters trying to block the violent extremists at the gathering in Oakland, but it's hard to contain them all when some only act violently and show their real intent when they get to the center of it all. And you're right - to win the sympathy of the public at large, one cannot act violently. But in the 60's came the roots of violent resistance groups, and therein is a pattern established which provides examples for some. Consider also, that this is a general assembly of people airing their concerns, frustrations, and grievances for all to see, and no representative of the concerns of all has emerged yet like MLK, but there are some in the independent media who are rallying support for change. Those such as Van Jones, Amy Goodman, Conel West, Noam Chomsky, Chris Hedges, and many others are there, as well as those hikers recently freed from Iran, actors and actresses like Susan Sarandon and Victoria Jackson, filmmaker Michael Moore, they're all there. Perhaps what is missing is the long struggle that produces great leaders, this is in it's nascent stages right now. > We need the likes of Thomas Paine, Martin Luther King Jr, Mahatma Gandhi, but they came out of a long, patient process of awakening from problems that were long standing. I would suggest Bill Moyers for that role, if he's up to the task. Perhaps Amy Goodman, Chris Hedges, or Van Jones as well - anyone in the media who's seen the true nature of what's been building to this point. > It seem that when you combine a wealthy ruling class which drops their taxes down low, makes the government borrow enormously to make up the difference, plants insiders into agencies designed to oversee the markets, deregulates the system designed to prevent a mixing of the banking and the investment world, you get what you get - a housing bubble, a near economic collapse, then suddenly, massive unemployment. Government is now constrained, so it cannot stimulate the economy, the panic and upending of the housing market has tosses many out of work. When those motivated primarily by the money game are allowed to run the government, the result is a system that allows unregulated high-risk behaviors to go on on a grand scale. Of course I haven't worked at an investment bank, I haven't used a Bloomberg terminal. And just what then caused the failures in the commercial banking sector?? Everything I've seen of documentaries on the collapse point to many mistakes within the investment banking sector and the derivatives market, I'm not blaming you, just recalling what I have seen through investigative journalism programs, and seeing the aftermath. Ultimately, when the investigative branches are cut short on funding, the rules changed to allow risky activities to happen in the markets, and to allow the types of loans which were created through Wall Street firms, we cannot be blind to what has happened. > Plutocrats are the reason why social goods are denied to the citizens, the very citizens building the hospitals often have no health care, and the cost shifting that has occurred falls on the backs of everyone else who isn't super wealthy. Even the minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation in the US, all because average citizens have very little real influence in their own government. And Plutocrats are often the people who control the investment firms, go figure! I need to dig up that Citigroup memo perhaps, and refresh some memory. > I agree, it's Koch brothers baby, their way to co-opt the masses into fighting against their own interests - what a masterpiece of ingenuity! Yes, though that is one thing they got right - a properly organized movement, though with enough money to bankroll a small army. I see that as the answer as well - organized and to the point, so the voters are aware of what's going on and what solutions are offered, keep the elected officials on their toes so they do the right thing, instead of the usual thing. But I believe mass protests bring people together, empower the powerless into believing in themselves, help create the organization organically from the grass roots up, instead of from the astro-turf down. And just you remember what was written on that drum head by a certain Thomas Paine, who after all was the ideas man behind the American Revolution. I'll pound on my drum all day if it wakes people to the call of liberty and justice.;) "THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated." December 23, 1776

Government is simply the exercise of authority by a group of individuals or an individual over an organization or state composed of many individuals. Self-government is in essence just that - individuals governing themselves, either by selecting representatives to average the interests of a group within the larger population, or by direct vote on governing matters. It is our government, we must reclaim control over that which governs us. The theft which has taken place is not by the poor, who survive with little say in the current system of governance and occasionally earn enough sympathy to get a crumb here or there, and this theft was not by the working classes, who benefit from public works as workers or sellers of goods, but haven't much power either. No, this theft was by the richest .1%, maybe more accurately the richest .01%, those who proudly consider themselves plutocrats, who have hijacked our democracy by buying off the elections and officials, granted themselves huge tax breaks and shifted the burden onto the rest and into enormous government debts, and then said that everyone else must somehow give up what little improvements they get in their lives because of "budgetary constraints". Now if the billionaires would simply pay their fair share for the society that brings them their great wealth, improve working class wages, and allow the government to spend more to stimulate the economy, while shifting away from war to peace expenditures, both the economy would pick up, and tax revenues would increase as well, allowing for an easing of the debt burden, and with reform, an end to the cronyism and corruption plaguing our nation here. To Promote the General Welfare, as is written in the US Constitution, means to promote the general well-being of all citizens, so they are healthy and motivated to lead productive lives beneficial to their communities, country, and world. A government of, by, and for We the People must become again just that.

Amendments do one thing, even if they are ignored or misinterpreted: they provide a touchstone, that is a standard or criterion by which something is judged or recognized. If we are brave enough to have created a nation based on the rights of man, then we must be brave enough to stand up for an inclusion of the right to fair elections, for elections are not contests like horse races, they are the means by which we choose representation, the manner through which we govern ourselves.

Inevitably, some anarchists or agent provocateurs will do these sorts of things - whichever the case may be, the vast majority of protesters are there peaceably assembled, demanding reform and accountability. But doesn't it just serve the commercial press to highlight the acts of a few to justify harsh police tactics against protesters who just want justice in this nation? When the ownership of the press has their lapdogs bark, they do just that. Remember what Dan Rather said? "We all knew what we could and could not say, what the bosses wanted." I think it's instructive to look at how the mainstream media has covered the protests thus far, focusing on interviews with the least informed members of the protests, and highlighting clashes over the real central issues driving people to protest - it's ignoring the elephant in the room, that's what it is. But don't take my word for it - just read what MacArthur has to say about what the press has become: Q:" MacArthur: Well, I, I merely have to quote Dan Rather who says that “suck up journalism is in today,” and by that he means that the reporter, the editor, the producer, the media executive who goes along with power, goes along with government, has a better chance of getting ahead in the business than the obstreperous independent, trouble-making reporter. Rather is himself viewing his career and remembering that when he came into the business reporters were “rewarded” he says for asking the tough question, for making trouble and so on and so forth. And that nowadays a trouble making reporter is more likely to be told to “shut up” or to “calm down”, and to act more like, as he says, “that anchor man in California on whatever local affiliate, who makes people feel good.” And he’s very upset about it. Other reporters I talked to are also cognizant of this trend in journalism." Excerpted from :[/url]The Press, Propaganda, And Censorship | Richard Heffner's Open Mind | THIRTEEN So to respond to bottle throwers yes, but to what extent is force necessary to handle a few hoodlums, and why is this the main press focus on the matter? And then, the response - to use tear gas, shot bags, and flash grenades against a few marchers throwing bottles? The excessive use of force is simply unwarranted in this situation, and the use of tear gas should be banned. I have to wonder, for the few outbursts during the civil right's movement in the 50's and 60's, did that diminish the justness of the cause or the urgent need for reform? And the labor struggle before then, when a few acts of violence were committed, did that make null and void the need for change? See the higher calling, keep your eyes on the prize.

Sounds like a fun adventure, enjoy the cheese & strawberry blintzes at the bakery!;):laugh3:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hello Mike! Sorry for forgetting your name, my apologies. Good points, I agree, an investigation into the truth, and consequences for the injustices. But when a firm that enormous fails, it causes a panic in the markets, and sends the whole economy into a tail spin; so I think then the answer is to break up the company into smaller competitive units of diverse ownership, restructured so that all stakeholders have equal say in the company, and so the new ownership is diverse, so no small group or one individual controls the company - hence, a real democracy; preferably worker-owned. I understand what you are saying about the people who bought homes and didn't quite have the means for the payments or collateral, that was in part their fault for buying those homes, but it's clear that when we deregulated and allowed for no background checks on the facts of the buyers at these banks, and offers that were too good to be true, it's inevitable and actually designed to pull people in; and the incentive for the so-called Wall Street banks to do this was that they could take and bundle these loan assets, have them rated as AAA investments, and sell them on the global markets as super-safe investments. So the "bankers" that engaged in this practice were well aware of how to lure people in, and then use those loans as investment opportunities to sell to other unsuspecting buyers. And a lot of people who bought homes were not aware of how the mortgages worked - in fact, few people anywhere could adequately explain the variable rates; it was the case with many home buyers that initially they were earning plenty enough to make the payments, then suddenly the rates jumped and then could not, and instantly had their homes foreclosed on - not everyone was buying homes without the means to make the payments, until the rigged loan system kicked in.

Jay, I know you're aiming this response towards the_gloaming09, but I would like to respond from what I see happening in the world, from the average worker's end of the equation: >> Well, it seems to me we were promised a mule and 40 acres, which would have allowed at least the prospects of good food from an honest day's work, if the economy would have been fair enough to pay equitably the small farmer for his products (then and now). No doubt, worker-owned companies would have been a great improvement, if there had been a Jubilee, a restoration of equity in the means of production, that is to say, worker owned companies. There is always work being done, but if one is not compensated fairly for work, and if work is not done utilizing the more efficient means of the day, then work in this form amounts to nothing more than a new form of indentured servitude in my mind. Why on earth should anyone pick cotton by hand, or heads of lettuce for that matter, when there are efficient machines that do it quickly en mass? I think often when laborers are made to compete with each other, the tendency is for there to be little change for menial task jobs, since labor is cheaper than the labor-saving device plus operator. > I believe we haven't, and perhaps the fact that the lower wage earners today have only seen an 18% increase in wages over the past 30 years, while the top wage earners have seen an increase in wages over 275%. According to Wolff, what has driven down working class wages in the US is, in part, the wage competition globally, which is unfair for all the workers here who now work longer hours, work harder with immense productivity gains, and have seen only a marginal increase in wages, while an elite has profited handsomely from the increase in productivity. I think it is those top .1%, the prolific super-rich, who have skewered the tax system so far in their favor that the rest of us shoulder the burden, and they simply profit more and more from the society that pays for the schools, roads, bridges, and other societal needs, while they pay less and less back into it. So who should take a cut? The men and women down in the trenches, shoveling coke and iron ore into the furnaces and grinding those castings for our cars?? The example is outdated, but today's working world is still quite a hard slog for many; I think it's time for a rethinking of things. > Accepting pay cuts is about all we've been doing for the last 30 years, and loosing manufacturing jobs - have you seen our manufacturing cities here? The boats go to the well-paid and the super-well heeled. And without decently paid workers, there are no consumers to buy these things, aside from Thirston Howell the iii, if and when he decides to but a new flotilla of yachts. The price of everything becoming lower is a wonderful fiction, if that would only happen, but it hasn't yet. So workers can buy the coconuts they grow on Howell's plantation, whoopee! I highly doubt that goods and services will come down in price as our wages decline from competition - history suggests just the opposite.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A loan and a demand for restructuring of their business after a complete auditing and examining of their activities which led to their bankruptcy, if and only if their size were such that a collapse of that magnitude would cause a panic, or a prolonged recession. And I would insist that, given the nature of "too big to fail" I would want the ownership to become diversified elsewhere in the markets, and break up the behemoth into small, more competitive units. Corporate charters are granted by the people for the purpose of the improvement of society, and when they and their ownership become a burden or hazard writ large, they need to be re-examined and restructured. We need to learn from the lessons of history, apply the understanding of what happens when too much power is amassed in the hands of too few. I would say as well, an investigation would be in order, one not tainted by insiders and by the ownership's money and influence. Yes, save the jobs, save the company, but break it up, make sure no one individual or family has controlling shares in the company; democracy in the marketplace requires that companies as well have a real democratic structure, and include the interests of all stakeholders. What are your thoughts about this matter Jay?

Watching and listening to this film, San Francisco 1906, taken just 4 days before the quake that leveled the city. Music - Cafe Del Mar, Underworld Mix. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oubsaFBUcTc&feature=player_embedded]San Francisco Market St, Full & Repaired Version - YouTube[/ame]

3 million US citizens lost their homes, the result of poor economic planning, a system that favors exporting jobs and damping down working wages, and the un-payable liars loans (as William Black among others terms them), set up by the biggest investment firms and their entourage of mortgage lending companies, posing as banks on the street. Today's response was in Jamaica Queens, first settled by the Dutch, now an ethnically diverse mix, and presently the foreclosure capitol of New York. Q: from occupywallst.com“According to the Mortgage Bankers Association and the FDIC, one child in every classroom in America is losing their home because banks are foreclosing on their parents. In Queens, the reality is even worse,” said Michael Premo, a volunteer who is helping with Saturday's event. Occupy Wall Street | NYC Protest for American Revolution I think we need, in addition to amendments, a clear priority that any elected official who wants to be re-elected sign on to a reform bill, unambiguously written and un-tampered with. Make it clear to all, fair and exact in wording, and publicize it far and wide, so either they sign on or face poor election or re-election prospects. I would like to see us gain the right for direct proposal and direct popular vote on legislation, to be one more check on concentrated power, so that anyone trying to weaken or de-regulate laws intended to protect the public from harm can be blocked by the will of the public directly, and protections put in place. Direct Democracy.

I just rebuilt a pink wagon.:P:joker:

Sorry to hear the news, if that is true. :( Hope he is well cared for and comfortable in any case, and it's very thoughtful of Chris to make the time for him. but I don't know if this is the case, so ....(?)

& sleep tight!:P

Oui! It must be wayy late there in France?!;) But it is a party night, so enjoy!:hat: I was thinking some mellow thoughts about times gone by..

Q: Saffire "So eventually most Americans will remember their previous interaction with a cop being a traffic ticket, a rude shout-down, or a pat-down before a ball game. Some people may have friends or family who are currently in jail for non-violent "offenses", or may know people who were treated unfairly in the court system. When they share their stories and videos, it creates a snowball effect. This is why you may see sites like "copblock.org" shut down in the near future. Google was already asked by the government to take down police brutality videos from YouTube, and they (thankfully) refused." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Yes, we do have the highest incarceration rate in the world, something telling of either a dysfunctional society, or an excessively punishing system, or some of each. No doubt the system is broken. True, the more the word gets out the harder it is to hide the excesses of a police state. Interesting they would pressure Google, after all, Google stands for " do only good!?". -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q: Saffire:"I do expect a revolution to happen in America. I'm not sure when it will happen, but it feels like it's sooner and sooner. I've been linking to videos on this forum and talking about it for several years now. Hopefully the police do the honorable and intelligent thing, and lay down their weapons before it gets too bad. Also, I have a feeling the guys in the US military are slightly less likely to harass American citizens than their blue-costumed counterparts...but it all depends on how effective we are at propagandizing in favor of freedom, and against authoritarianism." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> In the 60's it looked like a revolution, I suppose it was a revolution to some extent, but the task wasn't completed. I think non-violent revolutions are the way of the future - really, a restoration of rights, a redress of grievances, a government accountable to the citizenry - that is what we're asking for. It looks like things vary - in some places, the police allow the gatherings, other places they have orders to break up the protests - depending on top-down orders and who in which jurisdiction is willing to do what and either cave in or push back. I am not sure how the military personnel feel about this whole thing, I am sure it's a mixed response, but for the enlisted men, I would bet they're with the protesters on the whole. Good thought though - comparing those who see first-hand our policy in action, vs. the loyalists who take orders and believe the commands coming for police captains via mayors, who are pressured by governors and so forth. But it does vary a lot - some jurisdictions are quite supportive of the protesters and their right to protest. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q:Saffire: "This is why I have a problem with socialism and progressivism - it is exceedingly dangerous to advocate solutions that expand government power, in a time where government is already too powerful and already abusing its power. There's a time and a place for everything. Now's the time to be talking about freedom." >> I disagree in part. I believe it is dangerous to have such a large military-industrial-complex, the 59% of the budget when you sort out the details in full. Yes, that needs to be cut way back, replaced with more peace initiatives and peace corps. But to curtail the abuses of government, one needs to look at the plutocrats who control it all upon high, with their tons of lobbying cash, campaign cash, and plants in agencies. Therein lies the dysfunction in my mind - we've let a minority of powerful individuals co-opt our government, with obvious results. Returning to a government of, by, and for we the people is the answer. To end the abuses, one needs to remove the wizards behind the curtain, and let the people run the government. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q:Saffire: "EDIT: Chuck, if I were a Prince, I'd love to have you as the "voice of reason" for the youth in my country! "Keep calm and carry on", as they say... >> That's most kind of you Jay, if only I had the "keep calm" part down pat! I am afraid that I tend to fly off the handle at times, though thanks for your most generous words and offer. And if I were President, Jay, I would appoint you as supreme budget overseer, for I know you would watch the expenditures more carefully than anyone else I know!;)