chuck kottke

In terms of why I think it can work, that these protests will make real change, is from this personal experience: Here we had the problems faced by a possible sulfide ore mine opening up in the state near where I live. Knowing the industry's history, and it's offloading of responsibility on past mistakes, it seemed quite risky to allow the opening of a sulfide ore body mine in areas of pristine waters, running huge risks, and knowing the industry's track record of abandoning it's past mistakes. So a group coalesced to educate the public on the risks of sulfide ore mining, and a law was pressed for setting a moratorium on sulfide ore mining, until the said industry could show one example mine that was operational for 10 yrs. and closed for 10 yrs., whereupon it did not show a contamination problem. By informing the electorate, most of the politicians got on board with the proposed law, even though they stood to loose significant revenues from campaign contributions and lobbying jobs, yet none of the politicians wanted the bad press that would result had they voted against the proposed law, so it passed against the wishes of the big corporate money. That's a rare thing to find happen these days in government - actual laws passed that the citizens wanted passed! So here is an opportunity to press for real reform, nothing watered down, nothing left to chance, and several amendments - because if public sentiment is running so strong that it cannot be ignored, then people power will trump corporate greed and gambling chips from the Wall Street casinos. Power to the People!:sunny:

On the matter of the "right to keep and bear arms" I think this was intended primarily for ensuring state militias, at a time when the US was a frontier nation, for better or for worse, this was probably what the framers had in mind. It also assumed States may provide the ultimate check on authoritarian centralized power. Those were different times - many rural citizens had guns, most were automatically inducted into the state militias, so it was a mute point back then. Today it makes sense for certain jurisdictions to pass laws to determine the types of allowable guns and ammunition, and other factors relating to lethal weapons. That is a decision for the citizens within each jurisdiction to make - a place like rural Wyoming may decide differently from Downtown Boston, MA, for example. But at protest rallies, I think better to go the non-violent route - it sways far more to the side of the protesters to gather peacefully and ask for accountability and reform for the crimes that have been committed at the highest levels of finance and government.

Obviously, in any protest situation today there are those who use violence against what they perceive to be the enforcers of the state machine, that machine being controlled by the elite. Which I have to say backfires in public opinion, which is where protesters are really vying for - the hearts and minds of the citizens, so I generally don't like to see the radicals who act violently as they sometimes do in the "peaceably assembled" bodies of citizens. But I do think it's quite possible that there are those agent provocateurs within the protesters who act as instigators so police brutality seems justifiable, as though it ever is to this extreme..? But the use of such injurious weapons against a minority of bottle throwing anarchists, often hitting the other innocent protesters, this seems like clear-cut brutality to me. One Iraq veteran is in the hospital for a head injury sustained in Oakland, he's in critical condition - how can this be justified? What sort of riot control equipment are we allowing? I speak as someone who is a friend of a police officer who is disabled from an almost severed spinal nerve cord, a man who was knocked down in the riots in Milwaukee in the 60's. I think there are cases when to keep order one has no choice, but to me, it looks like top-down orders to attack and remove the protesters, and yes, those very officer's livelihoods are threatened by the economic downturn, since tight budgets mean cutting department personnel, pressuring public employee unions for concessions. I think something else to consider is how the nonviolent protesters have been trying to corral the (small number of) violent types, so as to prevent their provocation attempts from happening. But we also need to consider that this is a right, the right to "peaceably assemble and petition the government for a redress of grievances" - this is exactly what is happening.

Hello New Cachi1234:) Welcome to Coldplaying.com!:sunny::sunny::sunny::sunny::sunny: Sunny Madrid, and it was raining during the concert? Quite the surprise, although I suppose it's the rainy season there. Glad you found them superb, happy you could join in with our merry band of globetrotters here. ;):flutterby::flutterby::flutterby:

I just wish I could offer all those earthquake survivors a place to stay, with hot water and warm stoves in the winter already there.

:sunny:Welcome !!:sunny:

OH is that it! ;)

> Glad you could join in Aidan! Hm, sounds like Ian and Stephen need to get the word out a little better!:laugh3: But you found us, so here we all are. Wherever you go, there you are, so here you are!;) Jersey Shore, all I know are the pine barrens, which is a lot like here, but with more beaches. I see, you're a multi-talented musician - good for you! :cool: Coffee house songs - great place to start, like the cave then? Anyhow, hope to see you around here then.

Aggressive types like aggressive music, compassionate types like compassionate music, fun types like fun music. Most like a mix depending on mood or mode. Was it any different, the dichotomy between the Beatles and the Rolling Stones? How we forget the sand dollar was once a starfish...

>> True, well said, if enough people use the internet vs. believing what their TV's tell them, that is. But it becomes unavoidable eventually, when the pinch happens to so many, and the news simply cannot avoid discussions on the topic. It is the combination of factors which has propelled so many to the streets - the unemployment, the high student debts, the global revolutions, the awareness that the crime of the century has been committed and gotten away with, and all those victims - the millions who have lost their homes, the endless wars, which still go on under other pretexts. I find the idea of the issues surrounding the Fed and the banks intriguing, but to me even to address those issues, we must first have a system where honest candidates who truly believe in their oath to protect preserve and defend the Constitution are given equal time and access to the public square of the day.

I watched the video, and I think the answer isn't in reducing taxes to almost nil, I think the answer is to end the buying of the elections by the moneyed elites. Even if we want to shrink the size of government, we can only do that if we are in charge of it, and to do that, we need to be able to hear openly, equally, and freely from all registered candidates running for office, and put an end to the revolving doors. Declare that money is not free speech so we can limit the excesses of spending on political campaigns, declare that corporations are not people so there isn't some back-door way for the powerful few to funnel huge sums of money into campaigns and act as individuals petitioning the government for a redress of grievances. It's their Trojan Horse, the corporation as a front for their control from within. But if all this money is flowing into TV ads, radio ads, and internet pitches, plus the marketing of candidates using the commercial TV "news", then clearly that is the one thing which misinforms and misleads citizens into making poor choices from a set of candidates who are largely beholden to the powerful special interests. Why poke at the edges, when the dragon is right there before us?

>>I had that thought as well, wondering if it's all a game for them, a twisted one where they want to see just how far they can push people around, like a bully testing limits, or a control freak who doesn't think there are any limits. It seems to come from the top down, that's the vibe I get - not just police actions, but direct orders from those in the highest seats of power. I know people will do their jobs, many will compromise ethics and awareness for security, position, and money, but for how long will the rank and file take it before they've had enough of this charade as well? I was listening to Democracy Now! this AM, and they interviewed Glen Greenwald who writes for Salon.com, and he's written a new book about how we have a two-tiered justice system, one for the elites, and another for the rest of us, pioneered during Nixon's time in office and by Gerald Ford's precedent and attitude allowing for the pardon of Nixon, and advanced ever since then. Today we have an Imperial Presidency, yet the exact opposite was intended when the Constitution was written, and what has been done is completely illegal to create such illegitimate levels of power.

> Yes, I was thinking that too - it's as though the police are defending a state run criminal enterprise, perhaps some unwittingly so, some unwillingly so, but in reality, all the crimes that have been committed and have gone unchecked, it's ridiculous, and the very people who caused the collapse were put in charge of the restructuring? Completely absurd. Then they sock it to everyone else for their misdeeds - massive unemployment, higher taxes for the working classes, huge student debts, corporate greed and control run amok. Yes, it is disgusting - and look who's pulling the political strings behind the scenes - it's those who should be held accountable, those who have committed these crimes.. I am disgusted as well with the whole situation today. And yes, that's true to - nothing galvanizes the citizens faster of better than brutal police repression under the dictates of an Orwellian state. Power to the People! :bandana:

> Nothing like a police state being questioned for supporting a criminal enterprise - reminds me of Nixon's paranoia against protesters.. it's plausible that they provoke in order to permit themselves to act the way they do, but even so, to all involved? Heavy handed, in my mind, even if there are some real anarchists committing violence, then go after them, not the whole crowd. And it's quite plausible that agent provocateurs are there, it would be an easy thing to pull off and fool the "unbiased" press, lol. I wouldn't put it past the people in power - just thinking about the actions of Governors in some states, who wanted all the protests broken up (Cuomo comes to mind).. Police shooting something explosive into a crowd? Well, they argued it was fireworks going off from the protesters, but someone really got hit - an Iraqi war veteran - shot in the head with some projectile by the police, send to the hospital and in critical condition in Oakland. Yes, I hope the truth is found out!

History is being made at this very moment, and yes, it's messy. But without it, nothing changes; progress requires it. Don Quixote may clip all the blades off the mill.

:rolleyes: you and 6.9 billion others!:laugh3: > I am loving it!! They're wearing Robin Hood costumes, participating in the protests, getting their fellow citizens to invest in things that are of, by, and for the people, like community banks & credit unions, and away from the Banksters. WooHoo!!!! :cool:

Well, the rain exploded with a mighty crash as we fell into the sun, And the first one said to the second one there I hope you're having fun. Band on the run, band on the run. And the jailer man and sailor sam were searching every one For the band on the run, band on the run, band on the run, band on the run Well, the undertaker drew a heavy sigh seeing no one else had come, And a bell was ringing in the village square for the rabbits on the run. Band on the run, band on the run. And the jailer man and sailor Sam, were searching every one.... For the band on the run, band on the run,band on the run, band on the run Well, the night was falling as the desert world began to settle down. In the town they're searching for us every where, but we never w I'll be found. Band on the run, band on the run And the county judge,, who held a grudge,,, Will search for evermore.. For the band on the run, band on the run, band on the run, band on the run

"Shoot an apple off my head"... William Tell is on the move against the Governor, and as luck has it, is teaming up with the Robin Hoods, saving his countrymen for the ruinous financial system and the harm it has wrought upon the citizens: Don't forget - October is move your money out of the lair Month here in Sherwood Forest. >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> How_To_Guide_for_Your_Merry_Band_of_Robin_Hoods.pd f (application/pdf Object)

Ribbit Ribbit, Ribbit Ribbit. :waffle::mudkip:

Greetings Erwin! Glad you could join our merry band of Robin Hoods. :elf::elf::elf: ======================================================= Don't forget - October is Tax the Sheriff Month here in Sherwood Forest. >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> How_To_Guide_for_Your_Merry_Band_of_Robin_Hoods.pdf (application/pdf Object)

Welcome, and just what makes you think we're all people here?:laugh3:

> You're right David, no doubt about it. GM could have really set the pace and led the charge, so-to-speak, for change. And if we had done what visionaries in the 30's had told us even back then, we would be sitting in much better shape today - vehicles with great efficiency built-in long before the oil crisis. Fuller had the right ideas, incredibly perceptive of the need for efficiency; how sad it is to see great movements lost because of greed and ignorance, but I think we've started to turn the corner on all this. :lol: All that, and only 1 Horse Power!;) ;) Good idea, not only do we need a slow food movement, we need a slow pace movement! I've been thinking for a long time how truly enjoyable moving at a slower speed is, all this rushing around doesn't even give us time to take in the views, enjoy the places we're at. Glad you can go this route! I might even do the same, haul out the old buggy in back, fix er' up, and either pull it with horse-power or maybe just a small diesel engine under the seat and some biodiesel made from fryer waste. Emissions vary - one smells of donuts, the other smells of digested hay, but both smell wayy better than car exhaust!:laugh3:

Mrs. Bonaparte, what sayeth you? Always wanted a mossy roof, soft and green, rounded tufts of cushioned deep green, beautiful in the fall when all is brown and gray.

>> first I just wanted to say "thank you" to Yangarin for the cool video of Occupy Miami - many, many thanks!! Super Cool :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool: > Hm, from this article in the Buffalo news Unmoved Albany protesters add Cuomo to their list of concerns - Albany - The Buffalo News And a quote from the article gives us a clue: "Over the weekend, aides to Cuomo sought to pressure Albany Mayor Jerry Jennings to evict the demonstrators—with police force if necessary. The one-block park is half state owned and half city owned. Demonstrators Friday night moved entirely into the city-owned portion. On Monday, Occupy Albany organizers said the city — including police — have been supportive, dropping off rakes, blankets and other supplies. “A lot of people applaud Jennings. I commend him for being a human being. He’s no puppet,” said Egnor, as he cleaned up the park. Nearby, about three dozen tents had been erected." Which sounds encouraging! Good for Mayor Jennings and the police in Albany - they are on the side of justice then in this country, I am proud of their stand against the dictates of Governor Cuomo, and their stand for the citizens of our nation and of the world. Strange that Cuomo would try and block the protests, after all, he was such a strong supporter of the criminal justice system, why doesn't he take the criminals on Wall Street to task, and pressure the Federal Government to investigate more, and expand the white-collar crime division? I'm beginning to see why the white collar division is so poorly funded... Micro-management, to block the peaceable assembly and free speech of ordinary citizens, shows clearly then that the corrupting effect goes right to highest elected officials - never could the case for campaign finance reform be greater, the need for amendments stronger, to nail down the cause of the problem and let justice proceed and fair elections rule the country. I am beginning to warm to the idea of direct democracy - allow citizens to propose legislation to be put on the ballot for the Federal Government, and then put it up to a popular vote. Perhaps not always perfect outcomes, but this method seems to work well in Switzerland and in California.

The elephant as a spiritual understanding of nature: A pillar? A fan? A rocketship? - ethical expeditions "Our group watched Fierce Light last night, a documentary about the soul behind activism. One woman described the world’s spirituality as an elephant, where spiritual diversity grows as each person feels a small part of a single whole beast. One person may touch the leg and feel a pillar while another feels the ear and finds a fan, but neither sees the elephant, the whole of spirituality. I feel that the same argument could be made for the conservation “movement” acting around the world today. As Paul Hawken describes in Blessed Unrest, the global shift in consciousness towards the environment cannot truly be defined as a movement because a movement requires a leader, ideologies and a centralized goal. The environmental “movement”, however, has many leaders with different conceptions of conservation and working towards different goals. Many conservation groups disagree entirely with each others efforts and actions. But as each conservation group touches a different part of the same beast, the global shift in environmental consciousness, they all work towards the same idea: the fight against environmental degradation."