Any song writers out there?

[StephenG]

Really struggling with this. I seem to have made a few good lyrics for a few songs but im finding it really hard to write more quality songs.

 

I think the problem is i'm not articulate enough to do it. Im a good poet tho, its the transition im having trouble with.

 

Or I feel im ripping off music I listen to a lot, my lyrics end up Radiohead/Coldplayish music but from the heart but all I seem to write is really depressing songs.

 

And at the end of the day, I want to be individual.

 

Plus im just having trouble figuring out how to write songs, despite tutorials. The basic lyrical structure for example.

 

Any help or methods you guys use would be great.

 

 

 

-My most Coldplayeske song

 

Supermodel

 

Supermodel (played down acoustic, bit of piano, electric guitar and drums come in heavy at the end)

 

I’m getting sick of needing to tell people,

Don't concern yourself with the human mannequin,

He's as scared of us as we are of him,

He just hides it behind his looks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And no I don't have a perfect body,

And no I'm no supermodel,

But I’ve got a lot to offer,

It just takes time to surface.

 

And no I can't tell good jokes,

And I don’t have much of a presence,

And I have to think too hard to succeed,

I'm always defensive.

I'm chemically imbalanced.

 

(Lighter vocal)

 

I got to tell you something,

we all feel like you

We all wonder what we'd do,

When its time.

 

We don't succeed in this social game,

You'll never elevate yourself above the shame,

But you you'll never be happy,

If you prefer being down.

 

Don't concern yourself with the human mannequin,

He's as scared of us as we are of him,

He just hides it behind his looks.

 

Oooooooo, Oooooooo (rp)

 

But who'll pull you back from such a dream?

Just you, just you.

 

(Silence for the impact of the next song)

[Fixed]

I am in the same boat as you. I'd love so much to be able to write something decent but I find it so difficult. The problem is, I don't know exactly what I care about. But when I hear other people's songs, it's like that song was written about me - why can't I channel my feelings the same way as Chris Martin or whoever else can.

[TraceOddity]

I love the theme...people need to hear that message more. You probably already know I'm a songwriter, and I can tell you that if you're writing from the heart, you'll do better than any tutorial can teach you:)

 

You might want to simplify the first line a little, but other than that it's a good lyric.It's not flowery, just simple, heart-felt and sincere.

 

There are lots of great musicians on here, and I'm sure they'll be happy to offer advice too.

 

Another bit of advice I can offer is that if you're afraid of sounding like Coldplay, try using different instruments or different parts of your vocal range than they use...oddly enough, that's the same advice Eno gave Coldplay,lol.

 

You may sound derrivative of the bands you love at first, but as you grow musically and hone your craft, you'll find your own sound if you're looking.

[StephenG]

Thanks, the main problem I have is making songs that are usual form, bridges, choruses and verses. I can never really finish a song. Ive tried writing down what each block of the song is designed to do ie describe (first verse), provide power (chorus) ectra, but it doesn't seem to help.

 

Ill show you somethings im not happy with and i'm dying to finish at this stage suggestions would be great.

 

 

I stumbled upon a secret today,

The ex found someone new,

I didn’t keep my options open,

They did, oh they did.

 

Don’t get me wrong I don’t want you back,

I just wanna tell you what you’re missing,

I meant what I said.

 

I’m not one to hold onto things that have passed and died,

But if you tell me you’re in love again then lord I’ve tried,

But some people, well you never can tell,

Heart and substance, those two don’t gel.

 

You cost me a lot of sleep,

Sitting here worrying,

I didn’t keep my options open,

You did oh yeah you did.

 

Don’t get me wrong I don’t want you back,

I just want to tell you what you’re missing,

I meant what I said.

 

I’m not one to hold onto things that have passed and died,

But if you tell me you’re in love again then lord I’ve tried,

But some people, well you never can tell,

Heart and substance, those two don’t gel.

 

Don’t get me wrong I don’t want you back,

Just want to sit you down in a room,

Tell you what you’re missing,

 

I meant what I said.

 

(Fade out)

Oh yeah, I meant what I said,

I meant it baby,

Hang on, I did

Oh yeah

 

 

----------

 

 

 

3. Needs chorus, lone phrase to pin it all down 'wishing I was bulletproof' for eg and more lines

Trying to create that feeling of walking home alone.

 

What can we do?

 

I still don’t get why,

 

I believe, I don’t know what anymore.

 

I used to salute the driver,

But they weren’t paying attention,

I’m trying to be normal,

Creating barriers,

It’s taking forever.

 

Strange people avoiding eye contact,

Floating away, living for the weekend,

Going to lengths to avoid people,

Drowning in a vast sea,

 

We don’t understand, we don’t relate,

Hat-ing little children,

Pure Faked sympathy,

Whilst trying to get a reaction.

[Fixed]

How do you know if a melody is good or not? I have loads but they just sound so average when I compare them to proper songs by famous bands.

[Magnus]

Yeah I see what you mean, writing songs is really a lot more difficult than I thought it would be, especially if you try to put in many different instruments (drums, bass etc).

 

I guess, besides lots of knowledge on how to incorporate all those elements, you really need a moment of inspiration to write a good song.

 

 

I myself never wrote a whole song, started playing the guitar only about a year ago, and I didn't take any lessons at all, a friend of mine just introduced me with the basics, and the rest I tried to learn on my own. He, on the other hand, is a song writer, so I know first hand how much effort you need to put in a song to make it sound good. Good lyrics are only the first step.

[hobbestheprince]

How do you know if a melody is good or not? I have loads but they just sound so average when I compare them to proper songs by famous bands.

 

I think that popular songwriters like Chris Martin often cut right to the chase and get to the heart of the matter with their music. Chris doesn't overcomplicate things in his lyrics. He writes very simply structured poetry (if you will). He seems to distill the pure emotion in the song, and he's damn good at it too.

 

Don't get discouraged though ... you probably don't know how many times Chris has had to rewrite The Scientist until he was satisfied. Not too often does a song just fall into place with the perfect words. It's definitely something that needs constant deconstruction and reconstruction.

[fakfak]

I found that my songwriting improved when I began to impose an amount of structure on my process. Before, I just kind of sat and let thoughts come out of me, thus everything sort of came apart after a certain point. I started looking at my songs in smaller pieces and analysing each section/part in detail on it's own, then fit that finished piece back into the overall structure.

 

Not sure if this makes any sense:rolleyes4:

 

Hope I could be of some help...

[Fixed]

Thanks for all the advice. Also, how do you know what to write about when there's been a big thing that's happened in your life that kind of overshadows everything else, like death, and it's all you can think about, but you're not a miserable all the time, you try to be optimistic. How do you focus your thoughts? Nobody wants to hear an album full of songs about death, I sure don't. It's such a weird subject that it's hard not to sound cheesy when you write about it, even though you're trying not to be cheesy. Do you just avoid it?

[Fixed]

More writing probems - Where do you start? There's so much to say. How do you decide what's important enough to write about? Hasn't everything already been said?

 

Also, is it feasible to write songs based on dreams you've had?

[StephenG]

More writing probems - Where do you start? There's so much to say. How do you decide what's important enough to write about? Hasn't everything already been said?

 

Also, is it feasible to write songs based on dreams you've had?

 

Took me a while to realise this one myself.

 

Now I just write about a load of comical things, weird and wonderful stuff.

 

I wrote a song the other day about a guy who thought the government was trying to kill him for his belief in the 'world wide gangster communist computer god' the other day. Inspired from wikpedia.

 

I've also wrote songs about people I don't like, what I think of modern Britian, having regrets and all sorts.

 

Im just gunna make loads of songs, then worry about the record placing order.

[Cobalt]

I'm also in the same boat :freak: I can't write a song for the life of me, I'll sit there, pen to the paper, and nothing comes out :angry:

 

Fustrates me to no end

[dr_ross]

Firstly, if you find it difficult writing songs then you probably shouldn't do it. Like any art it's a natural process which is only hindered by rigorous structuring. Secondly, if you TRY and write a song, nothing will happen. The best ideas come when you're not thinking about them. Keep a notebook on you at all times, then when a flash of inspiration comes just jot it down, that's the best advice I can give.

[StephenG]

Firstly, if you find it difficult writing songs then you probably shouldn't do it. Like any art it's a natural process which is only hindered by rigorous structuring. Secondly, if you TRY and write a song, nothing will happen. The best ideas come when you're not thinking about them. Keep a notebook on you at all times, then when a flash of inspiration comes just jot it down, that's the best advice I can give.

 

Its the best way to get started for sure, but eventually you need to sit down and think about it.

[peng]

Thanks for all the advice. Also, how do you know what to write about when there's been a big thing that's happened in your life that kind of overshadows everything else, like death, and it's all you can think about, but you're not a miserable all the time, you try to be optimistic. How do you focus your thoughts? Nobody wants to hear an album full of songs about death, I sure don't. It's such a weird subject that it's hard not to sound cheesy when you write about it, even though you're trying not to be cheesy. Do you just avoid it?

 

 

 

too right. when i feel miserable, i write loads. but when i read it again the time i feel fine, all i wrote was just full of old cheesy words :(

[rastelin]

WAlked into the shadows today,

further I fell away,

Into a day where time was laughing at me all the way,

beyound the streams past our dreams,

where all falls to the silence of the minds of children at play,

Is where I find my notion of the Shadows I walk into today..

 

Chorus.

[peng]

^you write this with the melody too?

[StephenG]

Dont rhyme things directly (day, today) try extended rhyming couplets. (Hold, rode)

(forced, remorce) ectra... the idea is you repeat the vocal hook for both lines.

 

The 2 words dont need to rhyme in honesty, its the vocals between each line that need to link.

[a2iel]

i have found that songs come easier to me once I have an idea in my head of what I wanna achieve with the song. I also always like finding one phrase that will lead me into other good ones, a phrase that sparks a lot of thoughts in my head, lot of things to say and sometimes even how I wanna sing them: full of pain, slowly, fast, etc... then I also try to grasp on what to do with the whole thing: strong in the beginning, quiet beginning, buildup, monotone, some unexpected change in the bridge... things like that. then when I sit and try to write the song it feels as if i sort of already have heard it before, or as if I already had written it a while ago and now I just have to remember about it.

but I am really sure there's no real structure to these things, there prob is one that will feel really easy and comfortable to you tho. and even then, it doesnt always just work.

[Fixed]

Break the rules and you may hit gold.

[StephenG]

Break the rules and you may hit gold.

 

The greatest songs imo break the rules.

 

Losing my religion R.E.M

Bad - U2

History - The Verve

Bittersweet symphany - The Verve

Beetlebum/song2 - Blur

[Pseudonym]

I wrote my one and only greatest song (lyrically, not instrumentally) when I was in a daze of emotion. I was extremely angry and such and I just wrote how I felt and now many people have told me its some of the greatest songwriting theyve ever seen. So the key is to write when youre extremely emotional about something, no matter how hard it seems. Trust me, lyrics straight from your heart are always the best.:D

[Fixed]

Losing My Religion is incredible. From the second it starts it takes hold of you and doesn't let go. That mandolin just keeps looping and looping, like a train, until the slight pause near the end. It seems to go at 100mph. I love the lyric, "Consider this, the hint of the century". I don't exactly understand what the hint is, but it's just amazing. Ahhhh (runs off to listen).

 

History seems to get a bit of 'stick' from fans on The Verve forums, I don't know why, I think it's a beautiful song. Inspired by a William Blake poem that we studied in English a couple of years ago called 'London'.

[Fixed]

Tracie, anybody, help!!!...

 

I just realsied that I MIGHT be ok at writing melodies for my choruses (speliing?) - my problem is writing melodies for the verse. Every verse melody for each song sounds the ssame, but my chorus melodies sound a bit different, and I'm happy with them. How do I make my verses sound different?

[PianoRocker]

Okay, start writing chorus, find good fitting chords, guitar parts, bass parts, drumparts.

 

Start with the major drumline.

This drumline will play in the chorus and verse.

 

After that add your guitar chords with good sounding chords and play the scales for them to check if that fit well.

 

Now add your bassline to the chords and drums.

This line must be the same scales as the chords are.

And must fit on the drum(messure and rhythm.)

 

Finaly add vocals/lead guitars etc..

 

Than u have a very cool chorus.

BUT we are talking about the verses.

 

Okay follow this.

 

Use your drumline from the chorus and replace the ride cymbal with the hats.

 

After that use the same chords as in the chorus but use another mix of them.

And play the rhythm less power-full.(remove some 16th ot 8th notes!)

 

Then create the bassline same way you already did for the chorus.. But check scales and chords again.

And play them in Whole, halve or quarter notes.

 

Add vocals etc. then.

 

After that play with your lead guitar.

Turn the gain down, or use your volume pedal.

Some less effects and play on the accents smooth riffs that fits in the background of it(add much reverb to it!)

 

I hope it helped!