TraceOddity Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I made a thread like this a long time ago, but now that we've heard VH, it's time for another one. This isn't a complaint thread, just a discussion.:) If you were Eno or the band, what would you have done differently when mixing/performing/arranging VH? (I'm a producer/arranger, so I love this type of discussion.) I love VH, but as I've said on other threads, I'd have shortened the electronic intro...I understand that the album ends with it as it begins, but as a stand-alone track it's a bit long for me. And had I been playing the solo, I'd have moved it up the guitar neck mid-way through. It's a good hook, but I find it repetitious for 16 bars. Just my 2c. What's yours? (And we can use this thread for the whole album when we git it too.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grace Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 i don't know anything about producing or arranging, but to an avid listener without any musical knowledge the guitar solo just sounds wrong. :thinking: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackchickintheback Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I would have made it a longer song, honestly. :P A couple of more versus, but Coldplay said they wanted a shorter album so there you go. And the opening might be cut from the vid/radio because it's so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Cadet Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Like others have said elsewhere, it was mastered way too loud. But that's not a mixing problem it happens later. Still, not pleasant when you have a sinus cold and everything is buzzing making it worse. Why on earth do they do that anyway? It adds nothing to a song and takes away plenty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceOddity Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 Like others have said elsewhere, it was mastered way too loud. But that's not a mixing problem it happens later. Still, not pleasant when you have a sinus cold and everything is buzzing making it worse. Why on earth do they do that anyway? It adds nothing to a song and takes away plenty. It's pretty much the industry norm now, and I agree, it's too bad. Everything's hyper-compressed and boosted for corporate FM radio. So much of a son's dynamic is just sucked out the way music is mastered. I think it's why I lvoe indie music so much...you don't find as much of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grace Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 oh, and i would have made chris' voice stand out a bit more. it sounds a bit lost until that slow part begins. i can hardly understand what he's saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackchickintheback Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Really? I would have Chris stand out LESS in the choruses, i want to hear more other the other guys as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Cadet Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 It's pretty much the industry norm now, and I agree, it's too bad. Everything's hyper-compressed and boosted for corporate FM radio. So much of a son's dynamic is just sucked out the way music is mastered. I think it's why I lvoe indie music so much...you don't find as much of that. Come to think of it, that's originally what got me looking into indie music in the first place. I didn't have a clue where to start but I couldn't handle the buzzing anymore and I would have given up on modern music completely at that point if I hadn't found anything better. People who listen to it all the time may get numb to it, but if you've been listening to other stuff and turn on the radio, it feels like your under attack. :sick: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FedEx Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Yeah I would have toned down the guitar a bit and boosted the piano as well as reduce the BAM BAM BAM part by 2 BAMs. I think the song is of perfect length though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IneedYou23 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I love Violet Hill!!I dont know sometimes i cant hear what Chris is singing.I get that a lot though with their previous tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greta22 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 If i produced the track.... I really like the 70-80's ness vibe to it, the big clunky drums (and that chimy sound they have on top of drums/snare, I'm assuming to make it sound more machine-like)...so i like that direction...however... - i would prefer the vocals to have less echo delay on it. makes it a sound a bit too far away. another problem with this is the fact it makes the flaws in any vocal melody seem more obvious, and in violet hill, it sounds like they wanted to sort of mimic a "dylan-esque" ad-libbing vocal, somewhat raw vocal melody where he doesnt sing too perfectly...if you go for that style, adding a lot of delay or reverb to a melody makes the flaws sound too apparent, in my opinion. - when jonny's guitar comes in with the obvious heavy distortion, i think it's too much. i understand this is intentional but it seems to stick out too much from the rest of the mix. that trick reminds me too much of a linkin park idea or something, haha. and i like distortion. i would have either kept the distortion the same and lowered the volume in the mix, or lessed the distortion on the guitar but kept the volume the same. - like others have said, it's way too compressed. you dont hear any drop in the audio levels really until the very end when its just chris' vocals and the piano. it would have been nicer to have more dynamics. i hate how everyone overmasters tracks these days. but then again ive been guilty of doing it too so i cant criticze ;) - during jonny's solo i think it would have been really nice to add a pretty and complex string melody during the 2nd half of it, underneath jonny's guitar. i think it would have been a nice touch to the "decadent" sound the song reflects. - after jonny's solo it would have been nice to have another break where chris would sing a completely different line from the rest of the song's verses/chrouses, to spicen up the track before the final outro and make it a tiny bit longer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan8 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I'm too happy with a new Coldplay song to complain :nice: I'll be back and complain in a couple of weeks :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greta22 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I'm too happy with a new Coldplay song to complain :nice: I'll be back and complain in a couple of weeks :P haha well i dont think this thread is about complaints really, just what we would want to do with the track had we been the producers. people who like production work always think like this, trust me (dont know if you're into that or not, if you are i apologize)...but yeah, i am always thinking "how would i make this track sound" even when i listen to my favorite songs of all time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricardo Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I think the song it's great as how it is now, just 2 changes: -the first one http://youtube.com/watch?v=_1jJXOXWQQM, shorter intro, but only for radio, long intro in the album - I love the guitar solo, but it is too repetitive either makin it shorter or adding a electric guitar only for rythm and only in that part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceOddity Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 haha well i dont think this thread is about complaints really, just what we would want to do with the track had we been the producers. people who like production work always think like this, trust me (dont know if you're into that or not, if you are i apologize)...but yeah, i am always thinking "how would i make this track sound" even when i listen to my favorite songs of all time... Exactly! (That's why I pointed out that it's not a complaint thread in the first post.:)) It's just fun for some people to analyze and play with ideas with regard to production. I agree the distortion and its volume are a little harsh, although I wouldn't change either. What I'd do is fade it in over a second or so, so that it had all its presance but was more subtle on approach,lol.(Maybe even a little 'reverse delay' bringing it in...a little Beatle-esque, but still fun.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMagpie Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Can you find that old thread? I want to see what I wrote in it orginally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceOddity Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 Can you find that old thread? I want to see what I wrote in it orginally. God, I'm not even sure what I called it or even where it was posted. I'd like to see what we all posted, esp. when the album comes out, to see how close we were to the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greta22 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Exactly! (That's why I pointed out that it's not a complaint thread in the first post.:)) It's just fun for some people to analyze and play with ideas with regard to production. I agree the distortion and its volume are a little harsh, although I wouldn't change either. What I'd do is fade it in over a second or so, so that it had all its presance but was more subtle on approach,lol.(Maybe even a little 'reverse delay' bringing it in...a little Beatle-esque, but still fun.) did you notice this traciemorgan.... during the interlude (jonny's solo) there's an ambient synth droning in the background? ok, sorry this is a complaint, but in my opinion it really does nothing to the mix but make it harder to hear the rest of the instruments, and sound more clouded. i guess they were trying to create an ambiance to that part but i dont think its even loud enough to register anything to your ear besides sounding cloudy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TraceOddity Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 did you notice this traciemorgan.... during the interlude (jonny's solo) there's an ambient synth droning in the background? ok, sorry this is a complaint, but in my opinion it really does nothing to the mix but make it harder to hear the rest of the instruments, and sound more clouded. i guess they were trying to create an ambiance to that part but i dont think its even loud enough to register anything to your ear besides sounding cloudy.... I think it's there for Eno's ears only,lol. Found the old thread, and Briggs, your post was quite on the mark in a few ways.:D (Think my early review that the album will draw 70s Classic Rock comparisons!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMagpie Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I don't have a problem with the long intro, I like it. Maybe add just a few more electronic noises in there would be nice. Wouldn't mind to have Chris's voice just a little bit softer. The thing that stands out to me in this one is the drums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotplay007 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 If i produced the track.... I really like the 70-80's ness vibe to it, the big clunky drums (and that chimy sound they have on top of drums/snare, I'm assuming to make it sound more machine-like)...so i like that direction...however... - i would prefer the vocals to have less echo delay on it. makes it a sound a bit too far away. another problem with this is the fact it makes the flaws in any vocal melody seem more obvious, and in violet hill, it sounds like they wanted to sort of mimic a "dylan-esque" ad-libbing vocal, somewhat raw vocal melody where he doesnt sing too perfectly...if you go for that style, adding a lot of delay or reverb to a melody makes the flaws sound too apparent, in my opinion. - when jonny's guitar comes in with the obvious heavy distortion, i think it's too much. i understand this is intentional but it seems to stick out too much from the rest of the mix. that trick reminds me too much of a linkin park idea or something, haha. and i like distortion. i would have either kept the distortion the same and lowered the volume in the mix, or lessed the distortion on the guitar but kept the volume the same. - like others have said, it's way too compressed. you dont hear any drop in the audio levels really until the very end when its just chris' vocals and the piano. it would have been nicer to have more dynamics. i hate how everyone overmasters tracks these days. but then again ive been guilty of doing it too so i cant criticze ;) - during jonny's solo i think it would have been really nice to add a pretty and complex string melody during the 2nd half of it, underneath jonny's guitar. i think it would have been a nice touch to the "decadent" sound the song reflects. - after jonny's solo it would have been nice to have another break where chris would sing a completely different line from the rest of the song's verses/chrouses, to spicen up the track before the final outro and make it a tiny bit longer.... Perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saffire Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Complicate the song. It's just too dang simple for me to enjoy. I'd allow Jonny more freedom to mess around with layered guitar effects and I'd have him rewrite the solo part. As it stands now it's just not very moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dejan Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 If i produced the track.... - during jonny's solo i think it would have been really nice to add a pretty and complex string melody during the 2nd half of it, underneath jonny's guitar. i think it would have been a nice touch to the "decadent" sound the song reflects. maybe some cello.... it would have been REALLY nice to add some hammond/rhodes/clavia in this song,a perfect match with the guitar's distortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixed Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Brain Eno gave a talk at Hope University in Liverpool a year or so ago. I'm gutted that I didn't go! EDIT: Ohhh, thank you Google, you can listen to his lecture here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/freethinking2006/pip/132yy/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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