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Obama Kills 16 Afghan Civilians


Saffire

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I'm just curious as to why people are so pessimistic about this guy.

 

I'm yet to see why anyone is optimistic about this guy! I've yet to see anything in his past but corruption and screwing over the little man.

 

The fact that he did the same thing Bush got in trouble for and he get a free pass because he is new is stupid. What does it matter if he did this on this first or 100th day in office, does the time frame change the what the action is and how it's viewed?

 

I'd understand if it was something he had no part in or didn't know about, but that is simply NOT the case, thus no matter if its day 3 or day 200 that is immaterial to what he did....

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Zemy101, I kind of come off as a jackass on this forum sometimes, but the best way I can explain it is this analogy:

 

Atheists are to God

 

as

 

I am to Government!

 

Plus it's fun to be excruciatingly cynical about someone 90% of people adore. ;)

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i'd be more sympathetic to you guys if you would provide us with realistic suggestions on how you would go about the president's job while retaining the support or at least the allegiance of the american people and adhering to the constitution to avoid rioting and accusations of treason. all i hear from you two are calls for humungous, sudden changes, like complete economic reform and anarchy. i think it's fine to hold ideals such as those, but to actually propose enacting them all of a sudden as some sort of solution to our current problem is delusional. i don't even know if you really think that those sorts of changes should be made right now, but even if you don't, what good is it to sit around and say that that's what should be done when you know it can't be? are you just waiting for the world to explode so you can step in and take over and be the next founding fathers?

 

jay, you say you're just messing with us because it's fun, and i think i believe you. but since you've obviously studied economy and government and know much more about the technicalities than i ever will, i'd be interested in knowing what you'd HONESTLY and REALISTICALLY do if you were in obama's position right now. me, i have socialist leanings based on what i know and have studied, but that doesn't mean i'd go in and start enacting those policies if i were president. from what i know about history, huge, sudden changes haven't worked and haven't lasted, and i'd wager that the same would happen now if there was a brand-new economic order. what then?

 

obama's tagline is change because he and his (more intelligent, less idealistic) supporters believe that his proposed small tweaks in policy will pave the way for greater change in the future. i believe it's all about the tact, making small repairs now for a better future in the distance while still retaining the allegiance of the american people and adhering to the constitution so he's not booted out on his ass for treason. that's not to say i think obama would make the "right" broad changes that you propose even if the time was right--he doesn't sound like your man, nor does he sound like he will ever be. but i think the sort of person you seek is not going to come around for another 50 years at the least, so i don't see a point in sitting back and citing all that went wrong and how it's all just going more wrong when you seem to have the smarts to get in there and help guide the decision-makers along the road to the future you eventually want to be reality.

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Well the majority of things done by congress and Bush and Obama are 100% against the Constitution. And against what our founding fathers said should be done and warned against what they have and are doing.....

 

Bush, Paulson, Obama have already committed treason, they've done more damage to American then Hitler, Osama or Japan.

 

The things that are being talked about ARE

 

It boils down to proven economics versus feel good economics that we have now. There are proven laws that cannot be broken in the long term, and correction for them sucks but is the only solution.

 

We've become a nation of near sighted feel gooders and are paying the price and will continue too.

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There is a proven solution, and you may hate it but wiping the slate and letting the competent take over from the incompetent is the way to fix this mess.

 

what good is it to sit around and say that that's what should be done when you know it can't be?

 

You have it backwards, its the ONLY thing that can be done to fix the problem. The Obama/Bush economics CAN'T be done.

 

What were talking about WILL happen, the question is when and after how much trouble? We are delaying the inevitable and making it harder to recover. There is proven sound economics and then there is what were doing now that has been disproven. Change will come, but with how much time and trouble?

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i believe if we're delaying the inevitable, then the inevitable is a complete meltdown of government, society, and economy. i don't see the people standing for a quick, drastic change that forces everyday life and everyday policies to change, especially not in america. people here are too status-quo, too spoiled, and too selfish for the most part to stand for drastically altering their ways of life for the betterment of society years down the road. from what i can tell, you're essentially saying let the world crash and burn so it can rise out of the ashes. while i know the present situation is bad and it looks as though its just going to get worse, i don't think it's yet time for the world to burn. we've survived worse than this so far, and i anticipate bigger yet inherently different problems arising in the next few hundreds of years that have more reason to boil down to a big explosion.

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ApproximatelyInfinite, here's the problem with your thesis: You say Americans are spoiled and selfish, yet we just elected a guy who's campaign platform was to help out the poor and save the Earth from global warming. Do you see the contradiction?

 

Americans (and all humans) are willing to give their money to good causes, but the problem is they don't trust their fellow man to do the same thing! So, they feel there's a necessity for government (which to them is a charity with a gun, but they will deny the gun exists until they're blue in the face).

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i understand the contradiction, but i didn't make myself clear, nor do i know how to make myself so clear that i'm confident my point has been made and not mis-quoted. i don't believe every last american to be selfish and spoiled (and i fully anticipate people to get on my ass about that statement i made a few posts ago). i believe there are people, a good number of them, that defy the stereotype, and that obama is one of them. i believe he has to take the roads that we've already been set down to start change in motion. i also believe that's the only way he'd ever be willing to do it, and for that reason he's not someone that people with your political mindset would ever be satisfied with.

 

i took a class partly based in anarchy last year, and after extensive thinking about it, i just don't believe it would work in today's society. i can be optimistic for things such as anarchy and socialism working well hundreds of years in the future, but i don't see it happening now, based on historical, philosophical, and psychological models that i know of. i understand that you think differently, and i accept that. i just want to hear a little more realism and a little less idealism in what everyone's proposing--obama included, although i think his proposed tweaks are much more likely to go into effect and further things along than i think anarchy or what have you would bring us to the ideal future that you seem to envision.

 

i should probably stop going on so much, because i think i'm digging a hole for myself, but at least i know i don't have as much detailed knowledge of this stuff as others do :P. i'm just saying what i believe to be true based on what i know at this present time.

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i believe if we're delaying the inevitable, then the inevitable is a complete meltdown of government, society, and economy. i don't see the people standing for a quick, drastic change that forces everyday life and everyday policies to change, especially not in america. people here are too status-quo, too spoiled, and too selfish for the most part to stand for drastically altering their ways of life for the betterment of society years down the road. from what i can tell, you're essentially saying let the world crash and burn so it can rise out of the ashes. while i know the present situation is bad and it looks as though its just going to get worse, i don't think it's yet time for the world to burn. we've survived worse than this so far, and i anticipate bigger yet inherently different problems arising in the next few hundreds of years that have more reason to boil down to a big explosion.

 

Well I don't want it to crash and burn if it does not have too. But it's worse then most people realize. It's a simple fact of it has to be done. It's part of the cycle of humans.

 

If it was avoidable and it was I'd be singing a different tune, but were past that now.

 

This is simply now what will happen and also must happen, we can delay but were running out of delays. We have to completely restructure our economy, we can do that now or be forced too.

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