This thread is an extension of The Skeptics’ Guide to the Universe thread, which talks about skeptical and atheistic issues and people.

 

http://www.coldplaying.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73048

 

The topic for discussion this week is 9/11 Conspiracy Theories!

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcrF346sS_I&feature=player_embedded]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcrF346sS_I&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

 

 

 

http://www.debunking911.com/

I do not believe that it was a conspiracy, although I feel that it has been used in negative ways by the American government after the event.

 

The amount of people it takes to plan an event like that is huge (bigger than simply the Taliban committing the act since they had no plans to cover it up) and there is no way they could have got away with it. If they could get away with that we would be a lot more oppressed than we are as those capable of such actions would be in a ridiculously strong position.

I don't think people should stereotypically think that Islam is bad because of this event.

I don't think people should stereotypically think that Islam is bad because of this event.

 

 

I believe extremism is bad in all religions (and that was what caused 9/11), simply because the holy books are not to be believed and therefore extreme interpretations of them can only spell bad things. On to your point I agree because 9/11 is not something that the majority of western Muslims, or other Muslims would agree with. Far from it. Many interpret it as a peaceful religion, and those people should not be viewed upon as the same as the perpetrators behind 9/11.

 

My main dislike for Islam (not the individuals I must stress, but as a religion as a whole), however is in the inbuilt sexism which prevents freedom and encroaches upon what I believe to be basic human rights. I'm sure this will be discussed in another thread though.

^^

 

kinda ironic how most of those arab nations who operate under some form of islamic law have a much greater proportion of women in their parliaments and governments than most western countries. same goes with pakistan and indonesia both have had very very influential and important female leaders in the past. muslim women may wear veils but western women cant get past the glass ceiling.

 

from my knowledge much of the oppression against muslim women is not based on the teachings of the koran rather its the culture that has been around for many hundreds in those parts of the world and have now fused with the religion.

 

to get back on topic. conspiracy theories on tragedies such as 9/11 make me sick.

I believe extremism is bad in all religions (and that was what caused 9/11), simply because the holy books are not to be believed and therefore extreme interpretations of them can only spell bad things. On to your point I agree because 9/11 is not something that the majority of western Muslims, or other Muslims would agree with. Far from it. Many interpret it as a peaceful religion, and those people should not be viewed upon as the same as the perpetrators behind 9/11.

 

My main dislike for Islam (not the individuals I must stress, but as a religion as a whole), however is in the inbuilt sexism which prevents freedom and encroaches upon what I believe to be basic human rights. I'm sure this will be discussed in another thread though.

 

I too, believe that 9/11 is the work of fanatics. Islam teaches good, all religion teaches good, and if people would obey their religion's teachings in the right way, then I think the world would be a much better place.

People shouldn't base everything on one event.

 

That would be another thread. I think it's a little too sensitive to discuss about what we think about a religion as a whole over here, it might stir discontent among the users. :\

^^

 

kinda ironic how most of those arab nations who operate under some form of islamic law have a much greater proportion of women in their parliaments and governments than most western countries. same goes with pakistan and indonesia both have had very very influential and important female leaders in the past. muslim women may wear veils but western women cant get past the glass ceiling.

 

from my knowledge much of the oppression against muslim women is not based on the teachings of the koran rather its the culture that has been around for many hundreds in those parts of the world and have now fused with the religion.

 

to get back on topic. conspiracy theories on tragedies such as 9/11 make me sick.

 

Your statement on politics is acknowledged.

 

However regarding the Koran:

 

Sura 2:229

 

And the divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three courses; and it is not lawful for them that they conceal what ALLAH has created in their wombs, if they believe in ALLAH and the Last Day; and their husbands have the greater right to take them back during that period, provided they desire reconciliation. And they (the women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in equity; but men have a degree of advantage above them. And ALLAH is Mighty and Wise.

 

4: 12. ALLAH commands you concerning your children; a male shall have as much as the share of two females; but if their be females only, numbering more than two, then they shall have two-thirds of what the deceased leave; and if there be one, she shall have the half. And his parents each of them a sixth of the inheritance, if he have a child, but if he have no child and his parents be his heirs, then his mother shall have a third; and if he have brothers and sisters, then his mother shall have a sixth, after the payment of any bequests he may have bequeathed or of debts. Your fathers and your children; you know not which of them is more beneficent to you. This fixing of portions is from ALLAH. Surely, ALLAH is All-Knowing, Wise.

 

4:177. They ask thee for a decision. Say, `ALLAH gives HIS decision concerning `Kalálah. If a man dies leaving no child and he has a sister, then she shall have half of what he leaves; and he shall inherit her if she has no child. But if there be two sisters, then they shall have two-thirds of what he leaves. And if the heirs be brethren - both men and women - then the male shall have as much as the portion of two females. ALLAH explains this to you lest you go astray and ALLAH knows all things well.'

 

Sura 4: 35. Men are guardians over women because ALLAH has made some of them excel others, and because men spend on them of their wealth. So virtuous women are obedient, and guard the secrets of their husbands with ALLAH's protection. And as for those on whose part you fear disobedience, admonish them and keep away from them in their beds and chastise them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Surely, ALLAH is High and Great.

 

4: 4. And if you fear that you will not be just in dealing with the orphans, then marry of other women as may be agreeable to you, two, or three, or four; and if you fear you will not be able to do justice, then marry only one or marry what your right hand possess. Thus it is more likely that you will not do injustice.

That would be another thread. I think it's a little too sensitive to discuss about what we think about a religion as a whole over here, it might stir discontent among the users. :\

 

Whilst I disagree with your belief that all religions teach good this quoted part is a fair point. I shall desist from continuing this topic (I am indeed finding it hard to stay on topic as it is), although can I make it clear that I have no ill feeling to any pious members of any religion who wish no ill on others and do not force their religion on others (of whom there are plenty), it is merely the mechanics of the vast majority of religions as a whole which I dislike.

 

My comments may be deleted if that is appropriate as they are off topic.

yeah its best to move off religion. but it is hard to talk 9/11 without bringing up religion.

so it is a 'i believe in those conspiracies, there was something behind it' or the opposite?

 

i would care more for political than the religious part, cause what is true is the international politics changed after that event, for instance doing laws that makes the right to fly more difficult.

 

Whilst I disagree with your belief that all religions teach good this quoted part is a fair point.

 

Ah yes, I know that you don't approve of religious organizations or something like that. :P

But thinking about it again, I do agree that my statement is pretty vague; I don't know the details in every religion.

 

I think all of these conspiracy theories on 9/11 are some of the most idiotic things I've heard. I mean explosives being set in the world trade center, or that the people on the planes never existed and the planes were remote controlled.

 

I find these to be pretty offensive.

 

Also it's common sense too... I mean if you have a jet crashing into a building with all the fuel inside of it, that from the explosion is burning, plus all those tons of weight on top of the crash site, there's no reason why someone else should think differently that the towers collapsed otherwise.

 

And also... a government conspiracy? It wouldn't be true because if people were caught they would completely destroy their political career (probably also for their party), and would be taken to trial for it.

Whilst I disagree with your belief that all religions teach good this quoted part is a fair point. I shall desist from continuing this topic (I am indeed finding it hard to stay on topic as it is), although can I make it clear that I have no ill feeling to any pious members of any religion who wish no ill on others and do not force their religion on others (of whom there are plenty), it is merely the mechanics of the vast majority of religions as a whole which I dislike.

 

My comments may be deleted if that is appropriate as they are off topic.

 

I thought Coldplaying was the cool cat place where we could swear and joke and talk about religion and politics all day long without 'OH NOES CAN'T TALK ABOUT THAT HERE MIGHT CAUSE UPSETS!' type of HORROR RULE around.

I thought Coldplaying was the cool cat place where we could swear and joke and talk about religion and politics all day long without 'OH NOES CAN'T TALK ABOUT THAT HERE MIGHT CAUSE UPSETS!' type of HORROR RULE around.

 

Of course we can talk about it.

But this isn't the thread for what I was talking about.

This thread is about 9/11 and I strayed off topic.

^I started it. :|

^I started it. :|

 

No, you made a valid point.

I could have left the second paragraph out of my second post but I didn't.

I Don't really have a conspiracy theory I Just think it was really terrible what happened and I Hope they catch who ever was behind it, if it was Binladen they should find him although he's playing very good hide and go seek if he's not already dead by now :\

Whilst I disagree with your belief that all religions teach good this quoted part is a fair point. I shall desist from continuing this topic (I am indeed finding it hard to stay on topic as it is), although can I make it clear that I have no ill feeling to any pious members of any religion who wish no ill on others and do not force their religion on others (of whom there are plenty), it is merely the mechanics of the vast majority of religions as a whole which I dislike.

 

My comments may be deleted if that is appropriate as they are off topic.

 

I will in the future create a thread in this Skeptics series that talks about religion and the role of God, you can talk all you want then, but any and all responses are always appreciated :)

I don't think people should stereotypically think that Islam is bad because of this event.

 

well who would ever think that? i mean, they only stone people to death for adultery?

well who would ever think that? i mean, they only stone people to death for adultery?

 

:facepalm:

 

jks

Of course we can talk about it.

But this isn't the thread for what I was talking about.

This thread is about 9/11 and I strayed off topic.

 

Thank heavens I would have left otherwise

well who would ever think that? i mean, they only stone people to death for adultery?

 

Are you referring to the religion or Muslims?

Are you referring to the religion or Muslims?

 

The religion, the Quran, The hadith, Sharia law & muslims are all responsible for allowing people to be stoned to death for non crimes such as apostasy.

The religion, the Quran, The hadith, Sharia law & muslims are all responsible for allowing people to be stoned to death for non crimes such as apostasy.

 

I don't know the religion enough, but the way things are ruled here seems fine. Yeah, I've heard of that a Muslim woman was supposed to get caned for drinking beer, but in the end she was only sentenced to community service.

 

Muslims are quite nice people in general, not all of them are bad.

Your statement on politics is acknowledged.

 

However regarding the Koran:

 

Sura 2:229

 

And the divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three courses; and it is not lawful for them that they conceal what ALLAH has created in their wombs, if they believe in ALLAH and the Last Day; and their husbands have the greater right to take them back during that period, provided they desire reconciliation. And they (the women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in equity; but men have a degree of advantage above them. And ALLAH is Mighty and Wise.

 

4: 12. ALLAH commands you concerning your children; a male shall have as much as the share of two females; but if their be females only, numbering more than two, then they shall have two-thirds of what the deceased leave; and if there be one, she shall have the half. And his parents each of them a sixth of the inheritance, if he have a child, but if he have no child and his parents be his heirs, then his mother shall have a third; and if he have brothers and sisters, then his mother shall have a sixth, after the payment of any bequests he may have bequeathed or of debts. Your fathers and your children; you know not which of them is more beneficent to you. This fixing of portions is from ALLAH. Surely, ALLAH is All-Knowing, Wise.

 

4:177. They ask thee for a decision. Say, `ALLAH gives HIS decision concerning `Kalálah. If a man dies leaving no child and he has a sister, then she shall have half of what he leaves; and he shall inherit her if she has no child. But if there be two sisters, then they shall have two-thirds of what he leaves. And if the heirs be brethren - both men and women - then the male shall have as much as the portion of two females. ALLAH explains this to you lest you go astray and ALLAH knows all things well.'

 

Sura 4: 35. Men are guardians over women because ALLAH has made some of them excel others, and because men spend on them of their wealth. So virtuous women are obedient, and guard the secrets of their husbands with ALLAH's protection. And as for those on whose part you fear disobedience, admonish them and keep away from them in their beds and chastise them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Surely, ALLAH is High and Great.

 

4: 4. And if you fear that you will not be just in dealing with the orphans, then marry of other women as may be agreeable to you, two, or three, or four; and if you fear you will not be able to do justice, then marry only one or marry what your right hand possess. Thus it is more likely that you will not do injustice.

Soo out of context.

 

Douche.