I haven't been overseas, yet, so I don't know as much as I'd like to. This may sound like a dumb question. I was watching the Top Gear episode where they take a road trip through Florida(literally right through where I live) and they seemed to mock parts of Miami for how dangerous they are. I believe the host laughed about being told not to go south of some street because they would get killed. So, is that something unheard of in London or other major cities in England? I always thought every major city had extremely dangerous neighborhoods. I remember when I first started driving and someone gave me directions in Orlando. The guy pointed at the train tracks and said 'don't go past those tracks, they'll shoot you even if you have a car.' And he wasn't joking. It's just the way they were reacting on the show made it seem like England's cities don't have places like that and it's only in violent America.

No, for some reason people have this stigma about being in unknown places. Everyone assumes places are more dangerous than they actually are because they knew a friend of a friend who was shot there 3 years ago (And most likely in circumstances that normally get you shot).

 

My experience of this comes from knocking doors for charity quite a few years ago, we would often knock doors in "very dangerous" areas without realising it, specifically Disraeli Street which had the record for most stabbings in the UK on one street that year, and it was just the same as anywhere else.

I agree, most bad areas aren't as bad as people make out. I lived in two very rough areas when I was a student and I never really got into trouble. I think you're generally gonna be ok if you aren't involved in any kind of crime/ gangs. There was always a lot of police presence which was scary at first but you get used to it after a while. I can't say I was scared walking down the street and I wouldn't tell people to avoid those areas either but I'm sure many people who have never been there would.

There were be some places (there's certainly notorious areas) but it's rarely a case of threat of getting killed. Far more likely robbed.

I know for fact many of these areas in Florida are hat bad. So it's not really an overstatement for America. However, they just seemed so shocked by that, it made me wonder if they have places like that in England. So the whole thing was basically about how these guys from England were making such a big deal about this, like it's not common in their country.

It's certainly not the case that every city has places like that. There's plenty of gangs but it isn't no go areas which would lead to death. Like I said, more theft. Certainly plenty of places to feel threatened and you'd feel like you were going to be attacked, but whether you would is another matter.

 

I'd be shocked if it was like that in my country.

I live in a small town where barely anything much happens a part from the odd robbery, mistaking bb guns for actual guns, the worst crime was last year an old lady was attacked in the head with a hammer and it was hard to believe because that has never happened before.

Yeah. Purple pensioners tends to be as shocking as it gets around me too. Though the occasional murder happens a little further afield. Most regular thing appears to be drug busts and it's almost always weed farms.

I had a women shot and killed down the street from me a few years ago and I live in the wealthy neighborhood. I live in a small town and have had a gun pulled on me. Millions of times i've seen police helicopters over the city searching for someone that is dangerous, and sometimes for a murder. I'm just kinda weirded out by the fact that it's not like this over there in big cities, at least.

I'm just kinda weirded out by the fact that it's not like this over there in big cities, at least.

You should be more weirded out by the reverse.

Growing up here it's sadly the norm and I always thought it was for all major cities. Not so much for small towns, I assume my town is rare.

We don't have the same gun laws...

I had a women shot and killed down the street from me a few years ago and I live in the wealthy neighborhood. I live in a small town and have had a gun pulled on me. Millions of times i've seen police helicopters over the city searching for someone that is dangerous, and sometimes for a murder. I'm just kinda weirded out by the fact that it's not like this over there in big cities, at least.

:wreck:

 

If it makes you feel any better, in France we have a couple cities with areas that are REALLY dangerous. :nice:

I don't know exactly about Paris, although i'm guessing the most dangerous areas are in some suburban areas located in the North, with poor population that feels excluded, lots of drug traffic etc.

My city has a really really bad area that I go through everyday by tramway to go to work (i'm currently finishing an internship). It's okay now, but 2-3 years ago it was too dangerous to go there for a while. Grenoble is mostly known for Italian mafia, gangs and drug cartels issues, and corruption. For a few weeks it felt like Gotham city :lol: Anyway, there was a hold-up at a casino outside of Grenoble, the police chased the men, killed one of them, and the result was that all the people from a specific area swore revenge and started shooting at any policeman that would go there. Once, the police was searching some bar in the city and found an incredible amount of weapons in the basement, including a bazooka :wreck: Nicolas Sarkozy, the President at the time, even went to Grenoble and made a speech etc

The other city that still has some really really bad areas is Marseilles, in the south, on the Mediterranean sea cost. Cops can't go there, they'd get shot automatically. We've heard of numerous shootings occurring there the last few years.

Most of the time, it's still mostly dangerous for cops, but i wouldn't recommend anyone to go to these areas anyway.

 

But NEVER have I had a gun pointed to me in my little wealthy town next to Grenoble.

I had a gun pointed at me as well in Tilburg. Also got beaten up there for no reason, so was a classmate of mine and two friend (all other occasions). Robberies were common and stealing of your scooter while you drove by a bunch of people. I have been hit by a car three times without them stopping and read in the newspaper a couple of times that people had been hit by a car and died while the car did not stop to check if the person was badly wounded. Oh and I've encountered a couple of Pencil Men (potloodventers), how do you call these men that like to wank it in public?

Christ. We'd just call them perverts, flashers or public masturbators.

 

I thought the Netherland's was a lot more easy going than that. I mean, I suppose masturbating in public is pretty easy going, but you know what I mean. More the other stuff. That's crazy.

 

And the stuff in France too. I've been to the south coast (Montpellier a handful of times and Nice) and that always seemed fine. I've heard of Marseilles reputation though.

We don't have the same gun laws...

 

It has nothing to do with gun laws. It's an society issue. If people in the UK wanted guns bad enough, there is no possible way the government could keep them from coming into the country like drugs. In America, we can't keep anything out, unless the majority of people don't want it. It's not a legality issue, it's a supply and demand problem based on a violent society.

 

 

So it sounds like there are a few other industrialized European countries with some very dangerous parts of their city.

To be honest, it's just bad luck in Tilburg I guess. In nearly all cities here you can walk at night alone as a woman wihout getting raped/assaulted. Oh that reminds me... yet again in Tilburg I got nearly raped in an ally in daytime but a girl saved me from them and we ran away.

Wow! I'm glad you're okay! Someone tried to rape me once, I know how you feel, it was quite scary.

It has nothing to do with gun laws. It's an society issue. If people in the UK wanted guns bad enough, there is no possible way the government could keep them from coming into the country like drugs. In America, we can't keep anything out, unless the majority of people don't want it. It's not a legality issue, it's a supply and demand problem based on a violent society.

 

 

So it sounds like there are a few other industrialized European countries with some very dangerous parts of their city.

 

I wouldn't say it has NOTHING to do with the gun laws. I do understand that people from areas without such laws may overplay them, but it will certainly contribute in some way. I would say that in other European countries they seem a hell of a lot less risky than in the places you are discussing, and America being the self appointed most awesome place and freest place ever, you have to question exactly why that is.

It's a question of violent societies and their love of weapons. Actually, a lot of evidence shows higher gun rates equal lower crime rates. All shooting since 1950, except for one in America, happened in gun-free zones. I wish guns didn't exist, believe me. They're a plague on humanity, but laws, like with drugs or anything else that is available in massive quantities doesn't play that much of a role.

Christ. We'd just call them perverts, flashers or public masturbators.

 

I thought the Netherland's was a lot more easy going than that. I mean, I suppose masturbating in public is pretty easy going, but you know what I mean. More the other stuff. That's crazy.

 

And the stuff in France too. I've been to the south coast (Montpellier a handful of times and Nice) and that always seemed fine. I've heard of Marseilles reputation though.

In our second year of high school, some German students came to visit for a couple weeks. One of my best friends saw one of them...masturbating in the bus :| Apparently no one else had noticed.

Anyways ~*

(Disclaimer: about 90% of this had nothing really to do with what Nick said, it just started me off and I couldn't stop typing, so I'm not expecting a reply to it all or anything)

 

It has nothing to do with gun laws. It's an society issue.

 

Well if you mean its a societal issue because that society has had a loose and relaxed attitude towards guns as a result of loose and relaxed gun laws, sure. Now it's pretty ingrained in many people that not only are some relaxed and de-sensitized about it but evidently feel entitled to have guns.

 

Many believe the right to own guns does not have any correlation between people feeling they should have the right to use them, it's down to a violent culture that has celebrated and glamorized its civil war to being involved in wars around the world, often more than one, nearly consistently for around a century. None of that helps of course, but call me simple-minded, having the ability to go to your local supermarket and pick up rounds or to a gun exhibition and pick up a variety of weapons without a background check, and all these other sensationalist stories we hear of that are actually true, certainly make way more of a difference.

 

If people in the UK wanted guns bad enough, there is no possible way the government could keep them from coming into the country like drugs.

 

Yeah but they don't, and the British Army have also been significant in wars around the world and wars of independence there, back to the British Empire and far beyond, there's no reason why they should have less of a violent culture. So why don't they? Because its ingrained that you as a civilian aren't allowed to have guns, because it's just as likely you are in no way responsible enough to handle such a weapon as any other person or maybe lunatic in your neighbourhood, that's just the end of the story. For those who want to think about it a bit more, they can look at the homicide rate in the States compared to any other developed place with decent judicial institutions in the world, you can have the common sense to realise that the main reasoning behind having a gun, "protection", would not be anywhere near as necessary without a gun crazy culture in the first place, those kind of things would put off the average person from wanting guns in their country.

 

It's a question of violent societies and their love of weapons. Actually, a lot of evidence shows higher gun rates equal lower crime rates.

 

That is true, and some have looked at areas like Washington that have strict gun control laws yet an incredible amount of armed robberies. Why? Because it's not hard to cross a state line to somewhere that the general population are unlikely to pull a gun on you. Now this could be taken to back up both sides of the argument, on one hand the bordering states should have equally tough gun laws to stop people beyond the borders easily attaining weapons and being able to waltz in and rob as if it's slim pickings, on the other, the people within an area such as Washington should have looser gun laws to be able to defend themselves. And it's hard to argue with either point, but you could say that when it comes to such an important issue each senate should have a resolution that leaves laws equal or within touching distance to balance out such a problem, so that people that live within miles of each other don't have a completely different culture and attitude towards it.

 

There are only a few things you can be sure of when looking at statistics of gun related crime and how they correlate to gun laws, the first thing is that if you're going to only compare state-by-state or violence within America down the years there's no correlation whatsoever, every statistic is just as erratic as someone losing their mind and shooting their neighbour over a petty dispute. For example (When it comes to statistics down the years) gun crime has nearly halfed from 1991-2010, what's funny about that is the NRA use statistics like this to somehow show that our current laws are working, despite there being nothing of significance since 1991 to mean there is any control or more freedom on guns, so how is that proving anything? It's proving that despite the availability of guns, a smaller amount of people are now shooting eachother than the higher amount 20 years ago, while still way, way worse than any other developed country in the world, it's something to be celebrated that it's less worse than what it was. But anyway, if you go back to 1984, the amount of gun crime was quite close to 2006/2007, and if you go to 1981 it was around the lows of 1991, so yes, completely erratic, completely meaningless. The same thing with comparing state by state, there's nothing conclusive, you've brought up how stricter gun laws in some states do not equal lower crime rates (Like California, Illinois or mainly Chiago within it, New York) or with New York for example, you have Pennsylvania and New Jersey nearby with similar restrictions and just as much gun-crime, yet states like Connecticut and Rhode Island which again also have similar restrictions, and very low gun-crime rate. And it goes without saying you can find any number of examples of states that have more gun control and less gun crime.

 

So I think I've made my point why comparing state-by-state doesn't bring a lot of conclusions, the other thing you can be sure of, is that there is no comparison at all between America and other developed countries when it comes to gun crime. After the Dunblane shootings in Scotland in 1997 the population of the UK had to return 160,000 firearms because of strict gun control laws, and it's been pointed out that somehow this hasn't been effective as gun crime has doubled, yet the homicide rate per capita is still 40 times lower than in the US. Just like statistics within the US are pretty meaningless to compare, it's just as erratic when it comes to any country, when a type of crime is so rare in the UK it's pretty easy for it to double or half.

I had a women shot and killed down the street from me a few years ago and I live in the wealthy neighborhood. I live in a small town and have had a gun pulled on me. Millions of times i've seen police helicopters over the city searching for someone that is dangerous, and sometimes for a murder. I'm just kinda weirded out by the fact that it's not like this over there in big cities, at least.

 

I've seen/ heard lots of police helicopters when I lived in a rough area in Liverpool. Sometimes you'd see 10 police cars in a row. There have been murders but I don't think you'd be likely to get attacked if you aren't involved in any kind of crime.

 

The riots were pretty scary though. There were burning cars in our street and several shops got looted. No one got hurt though and this was the only time I felt scared living in this area.

I had a women shot and killed down the street from me a few years ago and I live in the wealthy neighborhood.

 

Why did you have her killed?

Yeah i wanted to post about guns but I didn't have the energy and it's hard when you're talking to people who actually believe they need them.

 

And that's not me insulting Nick. It's just the situation he's in and this is just the situation I'm in.