musiclover Posted February 18, 2004 Author Share Posted February 18, 2004 whoa...Kasia, you seem to think that only religion and Catholic Church can bring any good to society. What has it brought to humans in the last 2000 years? wars and endless wars? Inquisitions? disease to native americans? don't get me wrong...religion has its place. just not at the top of the matters. and i don't get your reference to buddhist monks :huh: what is that about? there is no correlation to what i said and to having no buddhist monks! :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedy_gonzalez Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 that's all true' date=' Kasia. But apparently, all though history, 'God' seems to be the reason people have gone to war, committed savage crimes, and all the other things. Why can't people once and for all just leave God to every individual...let them do their own thinking and come to their own conclusions instead of trying to get people convinced about your own ideas of how it was or how it will be if you don't accept a story...[/quote'] war is a psychological meaning if you take a look back into history. have you ever heard of a woman who`s start a war? i haven`t. war has always been a 'masculine issue' if you know what i mean. males have it in genes. they fight about money, women, food and religion. they are males and males are meant to fight. testosterone i'm all for people to be spiritual and Godly' date=' in their own personal ways. I know I try to be that way...[/quote'] me too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiclover Posted February 18, 2004 Author Share Posted February 18, 2004 apparently, most wars that i can think of have been fought over land and religion.... you should read "2000 years of disbelief" and you will get some idea about how revolting some of the religious wars have been... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiclover Posted February 18, 2004 Author Share Posted February 18, 2004 can`t you see what going on in the world? people tend to forget about what`s really important. it`s all about the money instead of love. i believe that God (however you call Him: Yahwe, Buddha, Allah) IS LOVE. we forget about God = love love? religions do talk of brotherly love etc. they all do. not one exception to it. then why is there blood spilt in the name of this love? one religion's name itself means "peace", yet i can tell you countless histories of how unpeaceful its followers have been toward people of other religion. :rolleyes: and people of another religion seem to think only they have authority of how love should be and if you don't accept their love, you start to get attacked by all sorts of unscrupulus means... :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedy_gonzalez Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 whoa...Kasia' date=' you seem to think that only religion and Catholic Church can bring any good to society. What has it brought to humans in the last 2000 years? wars and endless wars? Inquisitions? disease to native americans? [/quote'] it`s not catholic church that brought the wars and diseases. it`s us, humans. we are able to make our own choices, we make them, sometimes they`re right, sometimes they`re not. and i believe diseases are the result of the wrong choices we made. i believe that you get what you give to the universe. it`s a circle. and please don`t tell me i think that only catholic church can bring good to society. i hope you don`t think so becuz you know i`m catholic. and i don't get your reference to buddhist monks :huh: what is that about? there is no correlation to what i said and to having no buddhist monks! :rolleyes: sorry i thought buddhist monks teach young kids about love, religion, truth just as catholic priests do but i must have messed it up. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiclover Posted February 18, 2004 Author Share Posted February 18, 2004 and umm....Joan of Arc was a woman that fought quite well... and there are many other women too in history. they just seem to be sidelined by male history writers, i guess... :D :P one terrific example is the women of Sparta who not only would give up their male children to state military schools at the young age of 7, but would also demand that during war, their kids better come back winners or don't come back at all!! the few deserters were spitted upon by their own mothers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedy_gonzalez Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 apparently, most wars that i can think of have been fought over land and religion.... you should read "2000 years of disbelief" and you will get some idea about how revolting some of the religious wars have been... still i can`t think of a single woman that started a war. there were wars (or fights) between men over beautiful women (mythological troy for instance) but somehow i can`t think of two women starting a war over a man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedy_gonzalez Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 can`t you see what going on in the world? people tend to forget about what`s really important. it`s all about the money instead of love. i believe that God (however you call Him: Yahwe, Buddha, Allah) IS LOVE. we forget about God = love love? religions do talk of brotherly love etc. they all do. not one exception to it. then why is there blood spilt in the name of this love? one religion's name itself means "peace", yet i can tell you countless histories of how unpeaceful its followers have been toward people of other religion. :rolleyes: and people of another religion seem to think only they have authority of how love should be and if you don't accept their love, you start to get attacked by all sorts of unscrupulus means... :rolleyes: i still don`t understand why you blame it on catholic church. is it the only religion that caused wars? or do you wanna start a new war? :P :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedy_gonzalez Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 and umm....Joan of Arc was a woman that fought quite well... and there are many other women too in history. they just seem to be sidelined by male history writers, i guess... :D :P one terrific example is the women of Sparta who not only would give up their male children to state military schools at the young age of 7, but would also demand that during war, their kids better come back winners or don't come back at all!! the few deserters were spitted upon by their own mothers... yeah but did any these women actually start a war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedy_gonzalez Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 musiclover did you give up? i can be pretty defensive and i don`t give up easily. :wink3: :wink3: :D :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiclover Posted February 18, 2004 Author Share Posted February 18, 2004 it`s not catholic church that brought the wars and diseases. it`s us, humans. we are able to make our own choices, we make them, sometimes they`re right, sometimes they`re not. and i believe diseases are the result of the wrong choices we made. i believe that you get what you give to the universe. it`s a circle. and please don`t tell me i think that only catholic church can bring good to society. i hope you don`t think so becuz you know i`m catholic. no, i only wondered that because you went into various societal limbs (schools, doctors, civic society etc.) and said we don't need those, either, 'cuz i seemed--to you--to say that we don't need religion. So to me, you came out saying that either we have the church or we have nothing. And i don't agree with it. Church has organized society in helpful ways but it has also caused problems, and there can be no getting away from that blame...it rests squarely on the shoulders of chruch hiercharcy. how can you say that it can't be blamed when in fact past popes have been glorified for declaring war and fighting war!? sorry i thought buddhist monks teach young kids about love, religion, truth just as catholic priests do but i must have messed it up. ummm yeah...I doubt there is a buddhist 'pope' and a buddhist treasury that sends well-endowed missionaries abroad to teach people about love, or rather force-feed them the same... :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedy_gonzalez Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 it`s not catholic church that brought the wars and diseases. it`s us, humans. we are able to make our own choices, we make them, sometimes they`re right, sometimes they`re not. and i believe diseases are the result of the wrong choices we made. i believe that you get what you give to the universe. it`s a circle. and please don`t tell me i think that only catholic church can bring good to society. i hope you don`t think so becuz you know i`m catholic. no, i only wondered that because you went into various societal limbs (schools, doctors, civic society etc.) and said we don't need those, either, 'cuz i seemed--to you--to say that we don't need religion. So to me, you came out saying that either we have the church or we have nothing. And i don't agree with it. Church has organized society in helpful ways but it has also caused problems, and there can be no getting away from that blame...it rests squarely on the shoulders of chruch hiercharcy. how can you say that it can't be blamed when in fact past popes have been glorified for declaring war and fighing war!? i suggest you read my brainstorm again and think of it as of something that was created and meant to be sarcastic and ironic :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiclover Posted February 18, 2004 Author Share Posted February 18, 2004 yeah but did any these women actually start a war? except for queen elizabeth of england, i can't think of any right now. Actually, there's the queen of Jhansi (she's well-respected and well-renowned for her courage in India). these two women for sure started their own wars. as to why others didn't...you have only to look at the society. church doesn't even allow women priests even now, right? women didn't play important role in society, not just in war... but the few examples that are out there, those women DID bring up God as their reason to fight... wasn't the fear of catholic takeover that prompted elizabeth to fight? or may be it's vice-versa...but there was definitely religion as the motive... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedy_gonzalez Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 sorry i thought buddhist monks teach young kids about love, religion, truth just as catholic priests do but i must have messed it up. ummm yeah...I doubt there is a buddhist 'pope' and a buddhist treasury that sends well-endowed missionaries abroad to teach people about love, or rather force-feed them the same... :rolleyes: and i do not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedy_gonzalez Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 yeah but did any these women actually start a war? except for queen elizabeth of england, i can't think of any right now. Actually, there's the queen of Jhansi (she's well-respected and well-renowned for her courage in India). these two women for sure started their own wars. as to why others didn't...you have only to look at the society. church doesn't even allow women priests even now, right? women didn't play important role in society, not just in war... but the few examples that are out there, those women DID bring up God as their reason to fight... wasn't the fear of catholic takeover that prompted elizabeth to fight? or may be it's vice-versa...but there was definitely religion as the motive... these 2 women must have had an enormous amount of testosterone. a normal woman doesn`t have the need to start a war or gight like a man. it`s scientifically proven. queen elizabeth tha 1st was a great queen and a strong woman. and isn`t religion the cause of suffering to many women? take islam for instance. how are islamic women treated? like things. catholic church aint tha bad after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiclover Posted February 18, 2004 Author Share Posted February 18, 2004 i suggest you read my brainstorm again and think of it as of something that was created and meant to be sarcastic and ironic no, i already know it was meant to be sarcastic and ironic. but your sarcasm and irony falls on its face, for you can't even stand up for religion! no, we don't need religion to be our guiding light as a society... but yes, we still do need doctors, schools, civic society... the two are disjointed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiclover Posted February 18, 2004 Author Share Posted February 18, 2004 and isn`t religion the cause of suffering to many women? take islam for instance. how are islamic women treated? like things. catholic church aint tha bad after all :lol: :lol: you're comparing one bad thing with another...all organized religions have been bad for a vast majority of humans! :confused: :/ only the leading 'lights' of these religions have profited. i'm not condoning hinduism or buddhism either. but at least there are no popes or kings that tell their people to fight a war in the name of religion...they're more humanistic. but, all the same, in the name of religion, hindus have caste system which is as bad as anything out there. :confused: :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiclover Posted February 18, 2004 Author Share Posted February 18, 2004 and, all the same, you tell me of women who were great painters or great architects or writers that came from the catholic church. you'll find that women don't fill these occupations either. which is unfortunate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedy_gonzalez Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 i suggest you read my brainstorm again and think of it as of something that was created and meant to be sarcastic and ironic no, i already know it was meant to be sarcastic and ironic. but your sarcasm and irony falls on its face, for you can't even stand up for religion! no, we don't need religion to be our guiding light as a society... but yes, we still do need doctors, schools, civic society... the two are disjointed! that is your opinion and i respect that. however i do believe that religion has a meaning and is important for it has been here for milleniums and that means something. even the most primitive 1st human beings on this planet believed in something. ppl need faith. we have it in our genes. whether it`s the faith in God, gods, goddesses, nature or just simply faith in yourself, we all have the need to believe. it`s as important as physical health, school education, social relationships. the spiritual self is as important (if not more) as the physical one. i hope i made sense. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedy_gonzalez Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 and isn`t religion the cause of suffering to many women? take islam for instance. how are islamic women treated? like things. catholic church aint tha bad after all :lol: :lol: you're comparing one bad thing with another...all organized religions have been bad for a vast majority of humans! :confused: :/ only the leading 'lights' of these religions have profited. i'm not condoning hinduism or buddhism either. but at least there are no popes or kings that tell their people to fight a war in the name of religion...they're more humanistic. but, all the same, in the name of religion, hindus have caste system which is as bad as anything out there. :confused: :/ see, that`s why ppl should in my opinion be educated and be able to choose what they wanna believe in. so we can`t get rid of preachers or anyone who teaches the spiritual aspect of ourselves. that would lead to massive materialism. i`m not saying that priests aint rich but what they do and how they live shouldn`t interest any of us since we should concentrate on the knowledge they want to share with us. it`s like you`re being a fan of say coldplay, you like their music and listen to their lyrics but you shouldn`t be interested in any of the guys` personal life. or when for example your doctor smokes ciggs which is the opposite of what he tells you to stay healthy, he says steer clear of this shit while he breathes in himself but does that mean that he`s gonna prescribe you bad medicines when you`re ill? do the things he does when he`s home change the fact that he`s a good doctor and wants to help ppl? i`m not saying about criminal doctors, the evil ones. you see there`s evil all around us. you don`t even know if your neighbor aint a thief. there are good ppl as well as bad ppl, good doctors as well as bad ones, good priests as well as bad ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedy_gonzalez Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 and' date=' all the same, you tell me of women who were great painters or great architects or writers that came from the catholic church. you'll find that women don't fill these occupations either. which is unfortunate.[/quote'] that was in the past when women had literally nothing to say. but the situation changed in the last century and ever since has any woman started a war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedy_gonzalez Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 too much red, can`t help loving the colour :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiclover Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 margaret thatcher of u.k, against argentina indira gandhi of india, against west pakistan (to free east pakistan which is not bangladesh) :-) can't think of any others. don't know if golda mier of israel started any wars or not... anyways, we can go on and on about this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedy_gonzalez Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 was any of these wars about religion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiclover Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 see, that`s why ppl should in my opinion be educated and be able to choose what they wanna believe in. so we can`t get rid of preachers or anyone who teaches the spiritual aspect of ourselves. that would lead to massive materialism. i don't care if preachers preach to those who want to listen. i do care when they use propaganda, fear, and their money power to gain converts. that's not spirituality, not at least in my books. but in the name of spreading religion, that's what these preachers are doing all around the world. it's almost as if they treat spreading religion as a business...which is a mokery of everything that these folks are supposed to stand for. in the past, it was about the competition between whose church spire was the tallest (to attract more folks to their own chruch) or whose church had the biggest reliquery. now, it's about whose church can gain the most converts in the third world. so you have some people in places like kashmir that get baptized one week by Catholics in exchange for a job; the next week, they baptize with Baptists who offer money... saddest part is when the missionaries hold out on basic medicines, ask the illeterates to pray first to their god in which case nothing happens...then they ask them to pray to jesus and then give them the cheap medicine which cures them and later the whole village converts in the belief that jesus is their savior! and don't think i'm pulling this out of thin air...lots of such cases out there. it's not religion, it's something else altogether! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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