musiclover Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 however i do believe that religion has a meaning and is important for it has been here for milleniums and that means something. even the most primitive 1st human beings on this planet believed in something. ppl need faith. we have it in our genes. whether it`s the faith in God, gods, goddesses, nature or just simply faith in yourself, hon, i'm not saying don't give a damn about religion. i'm saying it should be your own private matter as to which god you pray to. and there shouldn't be all this craze about trying to convert the whole world to your own way of thinking...that leads to religious wars. and what do u mean by "believe in God, gods or goddesses..." what's the difference between the capital 'God' and the other 'god' or 'goddess'? i don't get it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiclover Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 and i, for one, definitely am a believer in the brotherhood of humanity that Beethoven talked about in his 9th symphony... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsBerry Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 what is this thread about ? *hugs musiclover* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiclover Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 hey Deniseeeeeee!! :-) *hugs* ohhh..it's just about this movie that's coming out soon here in the States...produced and directed by Mel Gibson. It's called the Passion of The Christ...and i guess it's controversial on many points and then the topic moved on just to religion and society... :D :P i guess it's controversial to talk about religion anyways... so we should stop... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsBerry Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 oh.. that movie... hmmmm.... Let´s talk about something else.. Pick a subject :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiclover Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 :lol: :lol: yep...that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedy_gonzalez Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 see, that`s why ppl should in my opinion be educated and be able to choose what they wanna believe in. so we can`t get rid of preachers or anyone who teaches the spiritual aspect of ourselves. that would lead to massive materialism. i don't care if preachers preach to those who want to listen. i do care when they use propaganda, fear, and their money power to gain converts. that's not spirituality, not at least in my books. but in the name of spreading religion, that's what these preachers are doing all around the world. it's almost as if they treat spreading religion as a business...which is a mokery of everything that these folks are supposed to stand for. in the past, it was about the competition between whose church spire was the tallest (to attract more folks to their own chruch) or whose church had the biggest reliquery. now, it's about whose church can gain the most converts in the third world. so you have some people in places like kashmir that get baptized one week by Catholics in exchange for a job; the next week, they baptize with Baptists who offer money... saddest part is when the missionaries hold out on basic medicines, ask the illeterates to pray first to their god in which case nothing happens...then they ask them to pray to jesus and then give them the cheap medicine which cures them and later the whole village converts in the belief that jesus is their savior! and don't think i'm pulling this out of thin air...lots of such cases out there. it's not religion, it's something else altogether! who told you that? or where did you read it? where did you find it? i don`t believe a single word. i won`t until i see it myself and you shouldn`t either. missionaries go to for example african countries and risk their lives becuz the culture difference is too much and they might get mistaken for an enemy or something. it`s not like teaching a 5 year old. we`re talking about a major culture difference. and they do it not becuz they want to make money, they do it becuz that`s what the bible tells them to do. missionaries are there becuz that`s what the holy bible tells. it says that the ones who know of God and Jesus should spread the word and faith to the ones who weren`t blessed with knowing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedy_gonzalez Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 however i do believe that religion has a meaning and is important for it has been here for milleniums and that means something. even the most primitive 1st human beings on this planet believed in something. ppl need faith. we have it in our genes. whether it`s the faith in God, gods, goddesses, nature or just simply faith in yourself, hon, i'm not saying don't give a damn about religion. i'm saying it should be your own private matter as to which god you pray to. and there shouldn't be all this craze about trying to convert the whole world to your own way of thinking...that leads to religious wars. and what do u mean by "believe in God, gods or goddesses..." what's the difference between the capital 'God' and the other 'god' or 'goddess'? i don't get it... and it is your own damn private matter. does anyone orders you what to believe? you can listen to the pope but you don`t nessesarily (sp?) have to agree with him or to what he`s saying. i`m not saying that other popes were like john paul the 2nd. i was born in 1983 (5 -i think- years after he became the pope) and i`m not that into history but i know that if other popes were into wars (i do believe they were becuz at some point one of them approved of poland getting outta map) john paul the 2nd is a great man, i respect him and love him for who he is. i always write the name 'God' in capital letter. i guess it`s a polish gramatical matter. i would make a gramatical mistake if i wrote gods, goddesses in capitals. i don`t know if you do it the same way in english. sorry, i`m not a genius. you`ll prolly gonna ask me why i write any other name (including my own) like this 'kasia' instead of like this 'Kasia' when i write God the way i do. the answer is simple: i just can`t do it any other way. it`s my own way of partly paying respect to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedy_gonzalez Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 what is this thread about ? aaah just musiclover and me arguing. i wonder who wins!!! :sneaky: :sneaky: :P :P :P :D :D i can be wuite a competitor *meow* :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiclover Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 missionaries are there becuz that`s what the holy bible tells. it says that the ones who know of God and Jesus should spread the word and faith to the ones who weren`t blessed with knowing it. yeah...that's called bible-thumping, and it's very irritating to those who don't want it. bible says many other things, not just that the gospels be spread. if we all follow what the bible says, we'll be living in a completely different society where gays are killed and slaves are kept, etc... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: moreoever, Rome has explicit treaty with Israel to not send missionaries to convert the Jews. Similarly, the missionaries are not allowed into Saudi Arabia. To me, they are like parasite...you host them and then they take over your society! :angry: in one state in india, the missionaries are even providing arms to people whom they converted (and who now feel that they need to break away from india!)...and don't tell me you don't accept these because many media reports are out there on forcible conversions... i wouldn't mind reproducing many of them on here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
';' Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 :rolleyes: i just want to see it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedy_gonzalez Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 missionaries are there becuz that`s what the holy bible tells. it says that the ones who know of God and Jesus should spread the word and faith to the ones who weren`t blessed with knowing it. yeah...that's called bible-thumping, and it's very irritating to those who don't want it. bible says many other things, not just that the gospels be spread. if we all follow what the bible says, we'll be living in a completely different society where gays are killed and slaves are kept, etc... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: moreoever, Rome has explicit treaty with Israel to not send missionaries to convert the Jews. Similarly, the missionaries are not allowed into Saudi Arabia. have you ever actually read the bible to say things like that? it`s not the problem with the bible but with the interpretation of it. and hell there are many. but what i got from the bible (i`ve not read the whole thing) is that God is love and He wants us to love one another and that`s my religion, that`s what really matters to me. i don`t ever want to hate, kill,envy, destroy - i just want to give love and get love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedy_gonzalez Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 :rolleyes: i just want to see it and i`m dying to see something`s gotta give. it`s out on march 12th in poland (the day i turn 20 and 6 months) :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiclover Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 and it is your own damn private matter. does anyone orders you what to believe? you can listen to the pope but you don`t nessesarily (sp?) have to agree with him or to what he`s saying. ummm yeah...when missionaries come with medicines and schools and money, and tell people how to pray and whom to pray, and to change their names and their age-old customs, then they don't have a choice. you don't see these missions in rich countries so much as you see them in poor lands...where people are easy to "harvest"...it's like Al Queda going and recruiting terrorists among the poor muslims 'cuz they are easy to brain-wash! i always write the name 'God' in capital letter. i guess it`s a polish gramatical matter. i would make a gramatical mistake if i wrote gods, goddesses in capitals. i don`t know if you do it the same way in english. sorry, i`m not a genius. you`ll prolly gonna ask me why i write any other name (including my own) like this 'kasia' instead of like this 'Kasia' when i write God the way i do. the answer is simple: i just can`t do it any other way. it`s my own way of partly paying respect to God. it's simple...you're indoctrinated to think that the god of jesus, as written in bible, is the only true 'God'...all Gods of other religions are 'false' 'gods' with small 'g'... i don't mind that you believe in that, but to me, it comes off as rude and to others, it comes off as bigotry, as obviously, nobody for sure knows whose version of 'God' or whose sacret texts are 'right', so to speak... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiclover Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 have you ever actually read the bible to say things like that? no, not me personally. but i've read articles quoting bible to the exact reference (book, page, verse, etc.) so i know it's true that the bible allows keeping slaves and demands and gays be put to death. In fact, slavery in America continued until 1860s because the white slave-holders in the South even taught their slaves that it was correct to be owned! many white in the South felt they did no wrong in moral terms by owning slaves...because they could quote the bible on it... and no, you can't say it's all on interpretation. you have to judge people by their acts, not by what their interpretation is or what they base their acts on. Many muslims said the 9/11 terrorists weren't real muslims 'cuz Quran doesn't allow terrorism...but the fact is, all 19 terrorists thought of themselves as devout Muslims who were acting in the name of islam. Same goes to many other Christian events in history... and no, don't keep saying this is a 'fight' and wondering who will 'win' it...i dont see this as a win or lose. rather, i'm getting to know your thinking on religion...and it's quite interesting.... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedy_gonzalez Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 and it is your own damn private matter. does anyone orders you what to believe? you can listen to the pope but you don`t nessesarily (sp?) have to agree with him or to what he`s saying. ummm yeah...when missionaries come with medicines and schools and money, and tell people how to pray and whom to pray, and to change their names and their age-old customs, then they don't have a choice. you don't see these missions in rich countries so much as you see them in poor lands...where people are easy to "harvest"...it's like Al Queda going and recruiting terrorists among the poor muslims 'cuz they are easy to brain-wash! as i said before they do it becuz the bible tells them to. some ppl in this world weren`t priviledged enough to have faith in God. acording to the bible it`s better for them to actually believe in God than remain pagan. i always write the name 'God' in capital letter. i guess it`s a polish gramatical matter. i would make a gramatical mistake if i wrote gods, goddesses in capitals. i don`t know if you do it the same way in english. sorry, i`m not a genius. you`ll prolly gonna ask me why i write any other name (including my own) like this 'kasia' instead of like this 'Kasia' when i write God the way i do. the answer is simple: i just can`t do it any other way. it`s my own way of partly paying respect to God. it's simple...you're indoctrinated to think that the god of jesus, as written in bible, is the only true 'God'...all Gods of other religions are 'false' 'gods' with small 'g'... i don't mind that you believe in that, but to me, it comes off as rude and to others, it comes off as bigotry, as obviously, nobody for sure knows whose version of 'God' or whose sacret texts are 'right', so to speak... i`m not going to repeat myself in that and i`m not intoxicated by nothing. if you want to read my reply to this, please reread my quote above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedy_gonzalez Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 have you ever actually read the bible to say things like that? no, not me personally. but i've read articles quoting bible to the exact reference (book, page, verse, etc.) so i know it's true that the bible allows keeping slaves and demands and gays be put to death. In fact, slavery in America continued until 1860s because the white slave-holders in the South even taught their slaves that it was correct to be owned! many white in the South felt they did no wrong in moral terms by owning slaves...because they could quote the bible on it... and no, you can't say it's all on interpretation. you have to judge people by their acts, not by what their interpretation is or what they base their acts on. Many muslims said the 9/11 terrorists weren't real muslims 'cuz Quran doesn't allow terrorism...but the fact is, all 19 terrorists thought of themselves as devout Muslims who were acting in the name of islam. Same goes to many other Christian events in history... i don`t know how har dit is to interpret koran but i do know that how hard it is to not only interpret the bible but also how har dit was to be able to read it for it was originally written in vowels (i think vowels...vowels are: a, e, i, y etc right?) and no' date=' don't keep saying this is a 'fight' and wondering who will 'win' it...i dont see this as a win or lose. rather, i'm getting to know your thinking on religion...and it's quite interesting.... :D[/quote'] i`m getting to know yours too. :D but i can`t change the fact that i`m a competitor by nature :wink3: :sneaky: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiclover Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 as i said before they do it becuz the bible tells them to. some ppl in this world weren`t priviledged enough to have faith in God. acording to the bible it`s better for them to actually believe in God than remain pagan. you don't get it, do you? :rolleyes: most people are happy in their own beliefs and their own religions. and if they're not, they would read up on bible and your 'God' and then convert and not be 'pagan' anymore. I'm happy to be 'pagan' or 'heathen' and happy to go to hell according to your close-minded beliefs. but i'm sad and mad when you try and convert me or my co-religionists who don't want to hear about your 'god'... do you get it? that's why there are always these religious wars...people resent it when you tell them that what they believe in is 'false' or 'demon worship'. :angry: and i told you...bible says many other things...so why don't they follow all those things? why do they have a treaty to not try and spread the word about their 'God' to Jews? Why do they not go to Mecca and try to convert the Muslims there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiclover Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 as you said, people have always believed in something supernatural...so why do you want them to hear about your god? why can't you "live and let live"? Nobody, as far as I can tell, ever asked a Christian to give up worshipping Christ or tell a Christian that bible is false and jesus is 'demon'! :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiclover Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 are you saying i don't believe in God? or that 1 billion Hindus don't believe in God? or Africans that worship nature or who do Vodoo don't believe in God? if so...i give up...it's one more win to the close-minded beliefs of chrsitianity and islam! :D i know for sure that Hinduism's main tenet is: There is only one Truth; sages call It by different names! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leaver Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 *head's taking* :sneaky: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiclover Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 huh? i don't know what that's suppose to mean... "head's taking" ? :huh: :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leaver Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 french expression Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musiclover Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 that still doesn't tell me what it means! :rolleyes: or what you were trying to say! :rolleyes: kasia wanted some news articles...here's one web site compiling many articles about the terrorist-ic activities of some who try to convert others to christianity. http://www.geocities.com/orthopapism/twipra.html "Church supporting rebels in Tripura" http://www.hvk.org/articles/0703/137.html "The NLFT is accused of forcing Tripura’s indigenous tribes to become Christians and give up Hindu forms of worship in areas under their control. Last year, they had issued a ban on the Hindu festivals of Durga Puja and Saraswati Puja. The NLFT manifesto says that they want to expand what they describe as the kingdom of God and Christ in Tripura. The Baptist Church in Tripura was set up by missionaries from New Zealand 60 years ago. It won only a few thousand converts until 1980 when in the aftermath of the State’s worst ethnic riot, the number of conversions grew." just one example, but it shows how christian missionaries pounce on poor people or those who are affected by riots or earthquakes or the like...it is pure treachery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leaver Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 it's an expression from my philosophy teacher :sneaky: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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