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Religious nut gets told.


Majson

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majson. I'm really not supposed to be posting as I am at work at the present time but I am compelled to respond to your ignorance.

 

You obviously DON'T know what you are talking about because all gay people certainly are not the same. Most peole cannot even tell I'm gay. I'm a regular non-queeny guy. And I like to date regular guys as well. All you seem to focus on are gay stereotypes which is sad really. Grow up please. And I will CALL you on any bit of bullshit you spew on this board. :sneaky:

 

yes... i agree... me too..

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Reilly, i realize that maybe most of the gay people you have come in contact with may have been nelly, camp effeminates. Look at it logically... how many masculine gay guys could you point out as being gay. Not all gays are flamboyant, you just see the flamboyant ones because they act out of the norm. From my experience, those types of gays are a minority, they are just seen as the majority because they are the only ones you can point out and say "hey, hes gay..."

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ok, i vanish for a short while and a debate, how cool...let's be short and to the point.

 

1. yes I’m bisexual

 

2. yes I’ve been on the gay scene more times than I really like

 

3. you want to say I’m getting it wrong, fine, but in the process you slam me down with petty insults,(eg, calling me ignorant) that does not make you better does it?

 

You're from Florida, now maybe things work a little differently over there than they do here, but I can only speak from the experience i have, and since you know more than reilly (clearly) then you cannot know more than me for we go around in similar circles right? Which means we must be equally knowledgeable and thus that argument cannot apply to either yourself or I.

 

I've been to a few gay clubs in my home town (one of the bigger scenes in the UK as it happens) and what do I see when I go out? Mindless sheep who generally like the same music (kylie, Madonna, Britney, Christina, steps and sclub 7 to name but a few) ontop of that they dress in very similar fashions, it would seem the individuality is something they do not understand. Is this different in the US?

 

They are also, for the most part, camp. Running around in cliques and generally having an attitude problem. It's those type of people I insult if they annoy me, you call it a stereotype, sadly the stereotype (at least in the UK) exists for a very good reason.

 

I have a theory as to why it actually happens to be this way, which goes along the lines of safety. You see, heterosexual lifestyle is easy, you can tell if someone is a man or a women right off, but how can you tell if someone is gay or straight unless there are signs? Thus, out of this came the camp behaviour, it is a way for them to spot people who are like themselves. Another example of how it has to be a learnt behaviour is the fact it’s so similar, and also add to that the simple idea that if it was a natural gay behaviour/genetic trait then all gay men would have (and you are not camp, and no-ones ever called me camp or guessed I was gay/bi until I’ve told them)

 

I know camp gay men and "straight acting" gay men (sadly I’ve only ever had the chance to meet but a handful of straight acting gay men, say 8-12 at the most, compared to over 100 camp men). You might be able to argue that I’ve met straight acting gay men and just not known, it's possible yes but I’m just trying to make a point here about how a stereotype exists for a reason (again, at least in this country). But you cannot say that “a lot of gay men are in the closet and living an artificial life” and believe it to be 100% absolute, it’s speculation. Yes I would say it’s true myself but you cannot work from it, or maybe that’s just the methods of my university talking here. I’m always told that although many things go unreported, you can only ever work from actual numbers, never assume no matter how right it may be.

 

You think I’m ignorant, so be it. I know it to be a different story completely. I had a big problem with Birmingham Gay Pride just there other month aswell, why? Because out of all the people I know, only 8 were going for reasons that weren't "getting laid" "getting wrecked on alcohol" or "getting fucked off my face on drugs", let me ask you honestly, is that what you want to show the heterosexual world? You think that it goes anyway to changing the stereotype on the homosexual man? i don’t. I can understand and support why gay pride was set up all over the world, they were somewhat repressed (but try being black and believing that gays were repressed)

 

Then you mention how “playing it straight“, the game show where a "metro sexual" man won the prize, and the gay man got nothing, shows stereotyping to be wrong. You're forgetting out the hundreds of stereotypes you see that are actual gay men. Graham Norton being one, big brother being another. The gay men it shows are always camp, and seeing as they're reality TV it's sad that they are the only members of gay society that are present are camp but the simple fact is, it also shows that the stereotype (although annoying) is also valid at the same time.

 

If things are so very different in Florida, then I envy you for it must be a very nice place to be. But you are just as guilty of being ignorant as I am. You come right off the handle and say I’m ignorant and you’ll call out my bullshit, and then say that as a bi man I should know better, well shame on you.

As you clearly know nothing about the UK scene can you really comment on life I know over here? And in which case, why should I know better if this is the life I know? I believe we live in a democracy, where “wars” are being fought for our “freedoms” and yet I’m supposed to think like you and support willy nilly a stereotype? I think not.

 

I can only speak on what I’ve seen, which is why i said mostly (as I’m sure there has to be parts where what I’ve spoken about is a little different). You don’t like it, that’s fine, it is your prerogative after-all. I feel I’m grown up enough, if light hearted comments cannot be taken that way it’s not really my fault, but alas what can you do?

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Majson. I apologize for calling you ignorant, immature, juvenile and a jerk. I could not tell that you were being "light-hearted" in your earlier postings. It certainly did not come across as such so I over reacted.

Now that you have explained yourself, I respect and see where you are coming from. My point was to simply point out that homosexuals represent many varied people just as heterosexuals do.

I still think we have much different views about this subject and that is fine. I understand where you are coming from. At first you seemed like a homophobic uninformed jock guy. Now, because I don't know you, I assumed this to be true.

I know now that this is false.

Well, sorry if I offended you. Take care, Aaron

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Then you mention how “playing it straight“, the game show where a "metro sexual" man won the prize, and the gay man got nothing, shows stereotyping to be wrong. You're forgetting out the hundreds of stereotypes you see that are actual gay men. Graham Norton being one, big brother being another. The gay men it shows are always camp, and seeing as they're reality TV it's sad that they are the only members of gay society that are present are camp but the simple fact is, it also shows that the stereotype (although annoying) is also valid at the same time.

 

That's why I thought "Playing It Straight" was actually a pretty good "reality TV" show, as it sought to redress the balance.

I think shows like Big Brother are complete garbage.

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no worries Aaron, no harm done :)

 

there is a fundemental problem with the internet, and it's that you never can quite tell how people mean the things they say. Still, at the same time it was nice to see a debate that didnt centre around something juvanile. So yay to that.

 

MC, i think some of the people big borther choose to represent society are indeed awful, but from a psychological point of view (and since it's part of my degree i tend to look at it soley from this angle) it's really quite fascinating to watch.

 

right, live8 beckons, see you all tomorrow probably ha!

 

Aaron, again, no worries. no harm done at all and it was nice to have an educated debate. And yes, i do accept your point about the gay community being just as varied as the hetrosexual community, but sadly i believe it'll take many years yet before it gets reckognised as this in the media/hetrosexual community.

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Obviously you know more about the issue then me, which is why Im a little tedious to even debate about it so I hope you understand that Im just trying to understand here.

 

From my experience of gay people, the way they act, as when you first meet them, is very stereotypical. I hate to generalise further but Ive also noticed that gay men AND women can say incredibly inappropriate and dirty things without feeling any shame about it because they see themselves as gay characters.

 

So did you notice I'm gay?

I don't know what your 'stereotypical' idea of a gay person is, but I can tell you that the view most people over here have of gay women and men is horrible. Just a list, things I've heard:

MEN: - have long hair

- wear pink

- generally act like a flamboyant shopaholic female

- are attracted to anything with a penis

- all gay men love to wear drag

- shave their legs & armpits

- are obsessed with handbags

WOMEN:

- have short hair

- wear dungarees

- generally act like a male construction worker

- are attracted to anything with a vagina

- all gay women love to have trio's

- don't shave their legs & armpits

- are obsessed with women's soccer

 

That's just a short list. I don't know if every gay person you've met acts like this, but I can tell you that I most certainly do not fit that stereotype, and neither do the gay boys and girls I know. There's of course always the very flamboyant gay man, and the very manly lesbian, but the majority of the homosexuals act, walk and talk just like any other person. And most of them don't act like being gay is a privelege either. I certainly don't bother complete strangers with my sexuality or lovelife, just as most heterosexuals wouldn't. I only discuss my (kind of dead) lovelife with my closest friends and occasionally with someone I know to be gay, as an introduction: "Hey I'm gay" - "Hey cool, so am I!" - "So have you ever kissed a guy?" out of interest. I can tell you as a closet homosexual that it is far from easy, trying to find out about other people's sexuality or admitting to your friends and family that you don't fit the profile of an "ordinary" adolescent or adult. Even if you have had absolutely no problems with discovering your sexuality or being gay or bisexual, other people will have problems with you. Homosexuality is simply far from accepted.

I think it's ridiculous to say that all or most gay people are the same, just as it's ridiculous to say all heterosexuals are the same.

Every human being is unique.

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So did you notice I'm gay?

 

I havent met you! How was I supposed to tell?

 

But I know by know because you already said it before :P

 

Well firstly I wasnt even referring to gay MEN when I said things like "Gay people", I dont think there is quite as obvious a thing as a stereotypical lesbian. I havent really met many anyway.

 

I dont know whether or not I said most gay people are EXACTLY the same, even the more stereotypical homosexual person will have other sides to them as you get to know them. But initial, a lot of gay people do seem to follow a certain stereotype. That doesnt mean they are all exactly the same, but on the face of it, gay men do appear to be stereotypical in many people that I have seen. They are individual people can can be just as interesting or boring as a heterosexual, but its hard to see through to that when you first meet them.

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I did earlier (for men, like I said Im unsure as to what it is for Women, the male construction worker thing is just exagerated). for men, not necessarily wearing pink, but caring a lot about their appearance, about fashion, other peoples hairstyles, saying phrases along the lines of "Oh my goddd! Where did he get those shoes?". They also can refer to themselves as or others as "Bitch", quite a feminite term. Things that make homosexuality obvious, Its really the sound of the voice and the awkward looking stance that gay men have, which isnt something they can work on.

 

Irene, although Netherlands isnt that far from Ireland, they are two completely different cultures (Im actually from the British part, Northern Ireland, so homosexuals here are basically the same stereotype we see on Big Brother or even Queer Eye for the Straight Guy or Will and Grace etc. etc.) and I dont think you can understand what I mean by what is the stereotypical gay person in the UK.

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WOW... simple logic... you only see the gay people that act gay!! you dont see the masculine non-effeminates... the stereotype is wrong... its a generalization. Its like if you were walking down the street and saw Joan Rivers and automatically made the assumption that all old women look like aliens and talk like they are constipated... :D

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no worries Aaron, no harm done :)

 

there is a fundemental problem with the internet, and it's that you never can quite tell how people mean the things they say. Still, at the same time it was nice to see a debate that didnt centre around something juvanile. So yay to that.

 

MC, i think some of the people big borther choose to represent society are indeed awful, but from a psychological point of view (and since it's part of my degree i tend to look at it soley from this angle) it's really quite fascinating to watch.

 

right, live8 beckons, see you all tomorrow probably ha!

 

Aaron, again, no worries. no harm done at all and it was nice to have an educated debate. And yes, i do accept your point about the gay community being just as varied as the hetrosexual community, but sadly i believe it'll take many years yet before it gets reckognised as this in the media/hetrosexual community.

 

Glad to hear we're cool. Thanks :)

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MC, i think some of the people big borther choose to represent society are indeed awful, but from a psychological point of view (and since it's part of my degree i tend to look at it soley from this angle) it's really quite fascinating to watch.

 

YOU might be watching "from a psychological point of view", but 99.9 per cent of the viewers are just watching it for pure titillation - and THAT's the problem!!

The people who are put in there are chosen merely in terms of their ability to boost "ratings".

Therefore they are always "confrontational" or narrow-minded people who are unlikely to get on with some of the others and are guaranteed to "play" to the cameras.

At the end of the day, all any of them are doing is being third-rate actors trying to become "celebrities".

It's "brain-candy" TV at its very worst!! :angry:

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Obviously you know more about the issue then me, which is why Im a little tedious to even debate about it so I hope you understand that Im just trying to understand here.

 

From my experience of gay people, the way they act, as when you first meet them, is very stereotypical. I hate to generalise further but Ive also noticed that gay men AND women can say incredibly inappropriate and dirty things without feeling any shame about it because they see themselves as gay characters.

 

So did you notice I'm gay?

I don't know what your 'stereotypical' idea of a gay person is, but I can tell you that the view most people over here have of gay women and men is horrible. Just a list, things I've heard:

MEN: - have long hair

- wear pink

- generally act like a flamboyant shopaholic female

- are attracted to anything with a penis

- all gay men love to wear drag

- shave their legs & armpits

- are obsessed with handbags

WOMEN:

- have short hair

- wear dungarees

- generally act like a male construction worker

- are attracted to anything with a vagina

- all gay women love to have trio's

- don't shave their legs & armpits

- are obsessed with women's soccer

 

That's just a short list. I don't know if every gay person you've met acts like this, but I can tell you that I most certainly do not fit that stereotype, and neither do the gay boys and girls I know. There's of course always the very flamboyant gay man, and the very manly lesbian, but the majority of the homosexuals act, walk and talk just like any other person. And most of them don't act like being gay is a privelege either. I certainly don't bother complete strangers with my sexuality or lovelife, just as most heterosexuals wouldn't. I only discuss my (kind of dead) lovelife with my closest friends and occasionally with someone I know to be gay, as an introduction: "Hey I'm gay" - "Hey cool, so am I!" - "So have you ever kissed a guy?" out of interest. I can tell you as a closet homosexual that it is far from easy, trying to find out about other people's sexuality or admitting to your friends and family that you don't fit the profile of an "ordinary" adolescent or adult. Even if you have had absolutely no problems with discovering your sexuality or being gay or bisexual, other people will have problems with you. Homosexuality is simply far from accepted.

I think it's ridiculous to say that all or most gay people are the same, just as it's ridiculous to say all heterosexuals are the same.

Every human being is unique.

 

Well put Irene. :)

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big brother is just about the most trashy bit of tv on the air right now' date=' aside from paris hilton's the simple life.[/quote']

 

You're spot on - THAT is brain candy "par excellence"!!

 

And so was Celebrity Love Island, for that matter.........................

when are TV companies going to stop making this kind of garbage??

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Obviously you know more about the issue then me, which is why Im a little tedious to even debate about it so I hope you understand that Im just trying to understand here.

 

From my experience of gay people, the way they act, as when you first meet them, is very stereotypical. I hate to generalise further but Ive also noticed that gay men AND women can say incredibly inappropriate and dirty things without feeling any shame about it because they see themselves as gay characters.

 

So did you notice I'm gay?

I don't know what your 'stereotypical' idea of a gay person is, but I can tell you that the view most people over here have of gay women and men is horrible. Just a list, things I've heard:

MEN: - have long hair

- wear pink

- generally act like a flamboyant shopaholic female

- are attracted to anything with a penis

- all gay men love to wear drag

- shave their legs & armpits

- are obsessed with handbags

WOMEN:

- have short hair

- wear dungarees

- generally act like a male construction worker

- are attracted to anything with a vagina

- all gay women love to have trio's

- don't shave their legs & armpits

- are obsessed with women's soccer

 

That's just a short list. I don't know if every gay person you've met acts like this, but I can tell you that I most certainly do not fit that stereotype, and neither do the gay boys and girls I know. There's of course always the very flamboyant gay man, and the very manly lesbian, but the majority of the homosexuals act, walk and talk just like any other person. And most of them don't act like being gay is a privelege either. I certainly don't bother complete strangers with my sexuality or lovelife, just as most heterosexuals wouldn't. I only discuss my (kind of dead) lovelife with my closest friends and occasionally with someone I know to be gay, as an introduction: "Hey I'm gay" - "Hey cool, so am I!" - "So have you ever kissed a guy?" out of interest. I can tell you as a closet homosexual that it is far from easy, trying to find out about other people's sexuality or admitting to your friends and family that you don't fit the profile of an "ordinary" adolescent or adult. Even if you have had absolutely no problems with discovering your sexuality or being gay or bisexual, other people will have problems with you. Homosexuality is simply far from accepted.

I think it's ridiculous to say that all or most gay people are the same, just as it's ridiculous to say all heterosexuals are the same.

Every human being is unique.

 

Well put Irene. :)

 

Yes - that's excellent! :)

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Obviously you know more about the issue then me, which is why Im a little tedious to even debate about it so I hope you understand that Im just trying to understand here.

 

From my experience of gay people, the way they act, as when you first meet them, is very stereotypical. I hate to generalise further but Ive also noticed that gay men AND women can say incredibly inappropriate and dirty things without feeling any shame about it because they see themselves as gay characters.

 

So did you notice I'm gay?

I don't know what your 'stereotypical' idea of a gay person is, but I can tell you that the view most people over here have of gay women and men is horrible. Just a list, things I've heard:

MEN: - have long hair

- wear pink

- generally act like a flamboyant shopaholic female

- are attracted to anything with a penis

- all gay men love to wear drag

- shave their legs & armpits

- are obsessed with handbags

WOMEN:

- have short hair

- wear dungarees

- generally act like a male construction worker

- are attracted to anything with a vagina

- all gay women love to have trio's

- don't shave their legs & armpits

- are obsessed with women's soccer

 

That's just a short list. I don't know if every gay person you've met acts like this, but I can tell you that I most certainly do not fit that stereotype, and neither do the gay boys and girls I know. There's of course always the very flamboyant gay man, and the very manly lesbian, but the majority of the homosexuals act, walk and talk just like any other person. And most of them don't act like being gay is a privelege either. I certainly don't bother complete strangers with my sexuality or lovelife, just as most heterosexuals wouldn't. I only discuss my (kind of dead) lovelife with my closest friends and occasionally with someone I know to be gay, as an introduction: "Hey I'm gay" - "Hey cool, so am I!" - "So have you ever kissed a guy?" out of interest. I can tell you as a closet homosexual that it is far from easy, trying to find out about other people's sexuality or admitting to your friends and family that you don't fit the profile of an "ordinary" adolescent or adult. Even if you have had absolutely no problems with discovering your sexuality or being gay or bisexual, other people will have problems with you. Homosexuality is simply far from accepted.

I think it's ridiculous to say that all or most gay people are the same, just as it's ridiculous to say all heterosexuals are the same.

Every human being is unique.

 

Well put Irene. :)

 

Yes - that's excellent! :)

YES I AGREE!!! lets keep quoting this quote of a quote of a quote!!! haha!

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