Reilly:

Thank America? America did what was convenient for them. Don't come to me with that 'thank America' thing- Earlier it was Comunism, now it's Terrorism. U.S. will always find an -ism to justify their pretty democratic genocides.

Anyway, I was talking about the pre Nazi years. First post war. The state of Germany was terrible and the Alliads left it alone, humilliated and destroyed. I think it was naive for them to think nobody would react to that... then Hitler came and they were fascinated at first, U.S. dominant class loved him! Later, he 'became' a monster and they were surprised...

And Marshall Aid, in my opinion, was a way to buy Europe and Japan (very close geographically to China and Russia) so they wouldn't be under Comunist influence (both Italy and France had strong Comunist Parties). In the Japan case, I guess it was also a bit of guilt for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the worst tragedies ever but of course politics and war strategies justify it and besides, Pearl Harbour had to be revenged... :roll:

I'm sick of hearing U.S. embraced as heroes and saviors, they just do what is good for them, there's nothing heroic about that.

ya know what i find offensive? that someone said system of a down would be hard-pressed to write amazing lyrics

 

what the fuck ever

OK La Maga maybe they were doing it purely for themselves and maybe they do everything purely for themselves, but it brushes off well onto other countries.

 

Post war America werent helping? I understand that without the collapse of Germany Hitler wouldnt have had the chance to make promises and come into the mainframe politician that he was, but that wasnt America's fault. America were giving hella big loans to Germany for it to rebuild its economy as well as extra loans to pay off War reparations (And anyone who thinks Stresemann alone could have gotten the Allies to ease off on reparations just isnt thinking, American support most definately helped).

 

Alright so America loved Hitler at first, so did the German people who voted him into power. His promises were not only promising but when he began to fulfil these promises of course people were going to like the guy, he was doing great things for the German economy, of course when he had the trust of the German people his TRUE ideals began to shine through and the German people who knew of what he was doing disliked him, and the American's were, as you said, surprised. I think everyone was.

 

Of course Marshall Aid was to contain Communism, its not just in your opinion, its a fact, American chiefs, generals, the president, whatever all made speeches on how Marshall Aid was the containment of Communism.

 

But back to what I was originally said, America have done things right, whether or not they did it intentionally for the country at hand or just for themselves.

whoa :o

 

you ALWAYS have SO MUCH to say lol

yeah and all he says is really wise

OK La Maga maybe they were doing it purely for themselves and maybe they do everything purely for themselves, but it brushes off well onto other countries.

 

I wish I could agree on that. But, well, I don't- I would be more careful on the generalisation:'It brushes off well onto other countries'...

And yeah, I know about the loans, but it was a triangle, they had to pay the others... And on the destroyed Germany, I wasn't just talking about U.S.; I meant the Alliads.

 

Anyway, quoting Stipe: 'Now I don't believe and I never did that two wrongs make a right.' It sums up pretty well what I think of this war, It sums up what I think of Saddam and Bush (They're equals, one is just nicer...) and what I think of the pairs of wrongs U.S. now and then use to make a right... I wish one day they could just stop for a minute and see what pillars they rights are being builded on...

More careful on the generalisation? YOU said that everything they have ever done is wrong, Im simply saying that not EVERYTHING has been wrong (And Ive admitted theyve done a lot of things wrong).

 

But anyways, well, thats your view, so thats your view.

Yeah I finally agree on the last thing. And I guess not everything is wrong, but I doubt of their values very much. And I don't like the idea of a country with such power; I doubt of the way they use it. And I certainly do have my reasons for...

 

Anyway, as Charly García, an artist here would say: 'cada cual tiene un trip en el bocho, difícil que lleguemos a ponernos de acuerdo...'

(which is something about how different what is going on in our heads is, in general, not just you and me, and how hard it's for us to agree...)

yeah and all he says is really wise

 

ah yes! he does... EVEN if he doesntlike Coldpaly :?

yeah and all he says is really wise

 

ah yes! he does... EVEN if he doesntlike Coldpaly :?

 

OH RIGHT YEAH SO WHY ARE YOU ON THIS BOARD REILLY? shite sorry about tha caps lock