No, I'm really not. Because fourth graders are immature and don't know jack shit about government politics, policies or what a democracy even is.

 

 

Except, oh wait, it's that thing that we pledge to every day. That's probably all they know about America. "I pledge allegiance, to a flag the flag, of the United States Of America... And to the Republic, for which it stands. One Nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

 

They can't even pronounce indivisible, and my history class learned what a "republic" is in 9th grade.

 

I highly doubt a fourth grader would know about wire tapping, or Lincoln's removal of civil liberties in the state of Maryland during the Civil War to ensure a Union victory. Or about Big Brother. I highly HIGHLY doubt that.

I love how YOU always avoid the questions lol you're a winner.... :lol:

 

A true politician perhaps :nice:

Nick will be our future president, I'm sure. :nice:

A true politician perhaps :nice:

 

 

:lol: true..... for the grande state of Florida no less lol

I love how YOU always avoid the questions lol you're a winner.... :lol:

 

I love how i answer your question but you ignore it....i gave one huge example. but after i get back from graduation ill do some more research.

No, I'm really not. Because fourth graders are immature and don't know jack shit about government politics, policies or what a democracy even is.

 

 

Except, oh wait, it's that thing that we pledge to every day. That's probably all they know about America. "I pledge allegiance, to a flag the flag, of the United States Of America... And to the Republic, for which it stands. One Nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

 

They can't even pronounce indivisible, and my history class learned what a "republic" is in 9th grade.

 

I highly doubt a fourth grader would know about wire tapping, or Lincoln's removal of civil liberties in the state of Maryland during the Civil War to ensure a Union victory. Or about Big Brother. I highly HIGHLY doubt that.

 

thats odd. we learned about a republic and our goverment in 5th grade. so i guess 4th graders didnt but at my school we did.

I love how i answer your question but you ignore it....i gave one huge example. but after i get back from graduation ill do some more research.

 

 

You didn't answer the question babe.. lol You mentioned only ONE "alleged' freedom that was 'compramised'....

 

 

YOU claimed it happened all the time.... so, where are these 'many' times you speak of??? :lol:

thats odd. we learned about a republic and our goverment in 5th grade. so i guess 4th graders didnt but at my school we did.

 

 

I learned about the wild west. And wagon trails. And.... Amelia Earnhart.

 

 

:(

 

 

My school system is lame, good thing I'm an independent person and teach myself outside the classroom.:thinking:

You didn't answer the question babe.. lol You mentioned only ONE "alleged' freedom that was 'compramised'....

 

 

YOU claimed it happened all the time.... so, where are these 'many' times you speak of??? :lol:

 

Ok ww2, the press was very restricked, and they censored speech, concentration camps for many people IN america because of their skin color. these types of things go back to the first war we had. Its sad really you havent learned about this. you need a better school system where you live.

Ok ww2' date=' the press was very restricked, and they censored speech, concentration camps for many people IN america because of their skin color. these types of things go back to the first war we had. Its sad really you havent learned about this. you need a better school system where you live.[/quote']

 

 

 

jinkies... skin color and prejudices still exist... but that was BEFORE the civil rights movement.... we're talking about laws and bills that are currently in place this moment in time...

 

 

its not the same thing... I see what you are 'trying' to say.. but it completely cancels out what we are dealing with here...

 

 

anyhoo... back to topic...

jinkies... skin color and prejudices still exist... but that was BEFORE the civil rights movement.... we're talking about laws and bills that are currently in place this moment in time...

 

 

its not the same thing... I see what you are 'trying' to say.. but it completely cancels out what we are dealing with here...

 

 

anyhoo... back to topic...

 

No. im showing you a pattern in america, that has been since our first war and continues onto todays wars....That most american wars the goverment takes away freedoms from its citizens during the war, but over time we have become more and more free.

The history of journalism in this country is fascinating, something that I've been studying recently (as I plan to go into Journalism as a minor in college). In WWI and WWII the media was hard pressed to EVER produce an anti-war article. Many stories were, in that sense, skewed to give the American public a pro-Allies, anti-German viewpoint. The German Americans suffered severely for this (two were hung from a bridge due to public outrage, if I remember correctly).

 

Japanese Americans were put into concentration camps here in the States during the second world war, I believe they were in California. These were American citizens, who were locked up for fear of their being spies, or a threat to our nation. It's quite disturbing. Their freedoms were removed. The same goes for the Socialists and Communists who live here in America. They were pursecuted before the second world war, and particularly after (as Russia grew in power and the Cold War loomed ahead of us). Remember Sacco and Vanzetti? Killed because they were self confessed anarchists, yet completely gentile bakers? War and the fear of government change is a very powerful force, and the government has used this force to their advantage many times, mainly through the press. Rights are given, and they are removed at will. Particularly during wartime.

 

That can't be denied. But it can be debated WHY these freedoms are suspended, and if they're suspended for valid reasons.

 

EDIT:

 

And censorship of the media during wartime (and peacetime, for that matter), and the suspension of civil liberties did NOT start with World War I. Indeed, it was one of Abraham Lincoln's only techniques.

 

Study the history of the Abolitionists in the South and North prior to the Civil War. It's interesting stuff. Frederick Douglass and all that.

The history of journalism in this country is fascinating, something that I've been studying recently (as I plan to go into Journalism as a minor in college). In WWI and WWII the media was hard pressed to EVER produce an anti-war article. Many stories were, in that sense, skewed to give the American public a pro-Allies, anti-German viewpoint. The German Americans suffered severely for this (two were hung from a bridge due to public outrage, if I remember correctly).

 

Japanese Americans were put into concentration camps here in the States during the second world war, I believe they were in California. These were American citizens, who were locked up for fear of their being spies, or a threat to our nation. It's quite disturbing. Their freedoms were removed. The same goes for the Socialists and Communists who live here in America. They were pursecuted before the second world war, and particularly after (as Russia grew in power and the Cold War loomed ahead of us). Remember Sacco and Vanzetti? Killed because they were self confessed anarchists, yet completely gentile bakers? War and the fear of government change is a very powerful force, and the government has used this force to their advantage many times, mainly through the press. Rights are given, and they are removed at will. Particularly during wartime.

 

That can't be denied. But it can be debated WHY these freedoms are suspended, and if they're suspended for valid reasons.

 

 

True. im not debating right now if its right for our goverments to do that, but im saying to camille that it has happened MANY times in MANY wars. this is a fact.

 

You seem to understand this.

its still bollocks....

 

 

 

fact of the matter is... the people wouldn't stand for it nowadays... look at the uproar a 'spanish version' of the anthem caused.... and you you think just because the government says "ok you... Juan, can be a citizen... Pablo.. I am sorry.. you can't." -- its injust!!!

its still bollocks....

 

 

 

fact of the matter is... the people wouldn't stand for it nowadays... look at the uproar a 'spanish version' of the anthem caused.... and you you think just because the government says "ok you... Juan, can be a citizen... Pablo.. I am sorry.. you can't." -- its injust!!!

 

The americans would only be mad at the goverment for letting Juan stay...not many americans would give a damn about picking and choosing. hell People would be far more pissed to have any illegal immagrants become citizens then for the goverment ot pick and choose. they wouldnt be mad at the fact the gov picked who stayed, they'd be mad that they let anyone stay.

The americans would only be mad at the goverment for letting Juan stay...not many americans would give a damn about picking and choosing. hell People would be far more pissed to have any illegal immagrants become citizens then for the goverment ot pick and choose. they wouldnt be mad at the fact the gov picked who stayed' date=' they'd be mad that they let anyone stay.[/quote']

 

Most americans would be mad if the goverment did that. Like if they were to kick out black people or muslims.

^ amen...

 

 

I love how Nick knows what 'most Americans' think.... I've got news for you buddy.... not all Americans are that racist or prejudice against illegals- or "mexicans"-- isn't that how you see it??

 

I hate the fact that you generalise Nick... not ALL people think like you.. sadly a number of people do... but not ALL.

 

This country whether YOU like it or not is comprised of immigrants... legal or illegal.. and like it or not, they're here to stay.

Getting rid of immigrants is an impossible task. Sort of like staying in Iraq to rebuild the government.

 

I mean, we've already re-built the government! So why are we still over there? A few car bombs here and there? Believe or not, the media sensationalizes these car bombs. They kill four or five people a day with bombs.

 

Look at major US Cities. More than that many people are murdered each day. Erradicating crime, which is essentially what these car bombs are, is simply impossible.

 

That's why I don't approve of Bush right now. He's taking on two tasks that are impossible to overcome, all the while pushing our budget further down the shithole.

i would assume that there are far worse casualties with bombs and ambushes and such twistedlogic....i mean every other day you hear about 5, 10, sometimes as many as 20 americans being killed inside their Armored personel carriers by bombs or land mines.

Exactly why we need to get our troops out of there.

One of the main problems is that this reeks far too much of Vietnam.

 

What was our goal in Vietnam? To help South Vietnam liberate themselves of North Vietnam's communism being imposed. At first, the government even lied to us. They said we were sending "advisors" to Vietnam to give them strategic advice. We sent 16,000 "advisors" over there. Then, when the American public figures out what is going on, there's a general uproar.

 

Back to the main point... Vietnam ended up destroying America. 1950 is when the first "advisors" arrived in Vietnam, and 1973 is when the last American troops finally left Vietnam. That's a 23-year fiasco. And what did we accomplish in Vietnam? Did S. Vietnam's government ever establish itself? No. Did the Vietcong ever stop attacking? No.

 

What did happen, however, is that the United States lost over 58,000 men because of idiotic polititians. I pray that Bush will realize this and pull us out before it's too late.

Amen to that. I couldn't agree more.

its going down the exact same road, and im surprised its not mentioned more (the similarities of iraq to vietnam) it would be my top issue on my agenda if i was a politician

I pray that Bush will realize this and pull us out before it's too late.

 

It is too late now, just think of the chaos that Iraq would be left in, I mean the invasion was abad thing, but now American forces have to stay there to keep the whole nation from a civil war...

sad thing is, there WILL be a civil war, no matter what. if we stay....it just prolongs the time it will take for a civil war, and more of our men are killed. if we leave, there will be a civil war. so basically we are screwed and we need to get the hell out now