Gun laws

[Fixed]

Is it any wonder why things like this happen:

Posted by a student on facebook.com:

 

Mr. Cafferty, from CNN, posed this question.

Are gun control laws likely to change in the wake of the Virginia Tech shooting?

 

I am a proud graduate of Virginia Tech's Mechanical Engineering Department and currently a distance learning graduate student. We all must admit that our current society has issues and problems. Acts of violence seem to continue to occur every few years and the media states opinions and jumps to conclusions.

 

Let us think outside the box for one moment. Police officers are trusted to carry hand guns everyday and many police officers retire without ever discharging their weapon. However, in my opinion the old adage “it’s better to be prepared and not need it than not be prepared and need it” applies in today’s society. I believe one way to deter senseless mass killings and terrorist threats is to increase the number of trusted members in society, who are willing and trained to meet force with force.

 

Imagine changing one parameter in the events of 16 APR 07. Let us imagine that a local police officer was going to school part time at Virginia Tech working on earning a degree in engineering. Imagine the officer was carrying his off duty weapon. Imagine this officer had a 9:05 class on the second floor of Norris Hall when a heavy armed gunman began chain the doors. Would today’s events have been altered?

 

Empowering civilians to defend themselves is a fundamental necessity in today’s society.

 

I believe the only way our society can deter violent acts is to give trusted civilians within the community the tools needed to deter these horrific acts.

 

All comments and thoughts are welcome.

 

God bless the entire Hokie Community!

 

"I believe the only way our society can deter violent acts is to give trusted civilians within the community the tools needed to deter these horrific acts. " - RIDICULOUS!!! F**KING BAN GUNS FULL STOP!

[GazeboflossUK]

If guns were banned, would it stop a person who wanted to shoot and kill others from doing so?

[ColdMike]

If guns were banned, would it stop a person who wanted to shoot and kill others from doing so?

 

I agree...

That's sad but even if we would forbid all the things which could kill people, murderers/killers could always find another way to kill...

 

Making laws will never solve the problem.

[Ondes Martenot]

Making laws will never solve the problem.

 

lol

 

what will solve the problems then?

 

If guns were banned, would it stop a person who wanted to shoot and kill others from doing so?

 

maybe. it would reduce his possibilities to get a gun (in normal case)

 

maybe not. it's too late to ban anything. he'd get a gun anyway. in the US it's not hard. that country's been messed up since "i've no idea when" anyway

[ColdMike]

lol

 

what will solve the problems then?

 

 

 

I think you know the answer.

 

Nothing. We just can't. Violence is part of the human being.

We can't take it off.

We just hide it, that's all.

This violence gets out of us in some situations... and we just can't help it.

 

This may be sad, but it's true...

[lunar1126]

Making laws will never solve the problem.

I agree with Mike, but for different reasons.

 

To sum up some of what Daniel Quinn says in his book Beyond Civilization: Laws don't solve the problem - and they invariably fail because of "bad design." So what do we do? Create new laws (with more money and better management) that only continue to impede the problem. That's what our society does. We generate programs and laws that do nothing to change the course we're on. The roots of the problem (ie. senseless violence) stem in large part from the pressures that our society places on people today. Acts of violence such as this one should cause us to critically re-evaluate ourselves and our way of life (culture). A serious change needs to be made.

 

Gun bans wouldn't change a thing, but stronger family/friend support networks and less financial pressures might stop people from reaching that "snapping" point.

[GazeboflossUK]

Exactly. There's a huge attempt to make this terrible shooting about "laws".....when it really is a social/society/culture issue.

 

And you would think that people could work this out.....I mean it's obvious that this event still could have happened if guns were banned......I mean, the person (or persons) invloved in this thought it ok to kill 32 people.....that's the issue.

 

And besides the reasons why he wanted to do it....you have to think about this:

1. A professor had warned University officials about his behaviour.
   
2. 'One' (or was it just him?) guy chained multiple entrances shut a across a large building in a high-traffic time of day.
   
3. Not a single person noticed or reported the above.
   
4. 'One' guy fired almost 200 rounds of ammo (an E.R Doctor said that every victim was shot AT LEAST 3 times)
   
5. Cops with assault rifles spent OVER TWO HOURS hiding behind trees and their cars while a gunman shoots up a school uninterrupted.

[emilien88]

Anyways, it's hard to buy a gun in France, we don't have problems with them, that's all... ban guns...

[GazeboflossUK]

Also, this guy (as always with these types of things) was on Prozac.........this is black op's.......almost certainly.

 

This is looking like a 'gun control' exercise......just get smart and watch how far this story goes and make note of what people will use it for. 2nd amendment destruction.

 

http://kurtnimmo.com/?p=834 read this too.

 

I think some might try and spin this in the muslim direction.

[ColdMike]

I agree with you, Lunar1126... So, according to what you said, our way of life would be the cause of the violence...

And by pression, I guess you mean money, all what rules our world, finally, the basics of it: the economy, politics, the way of it works, of everything works...

 

Are we on a wrong way... I mean, Is the whole world on the wrong way?

 

 

Thank you for telling us what happened, Gazeboflossuk, I didn't know about it, although I remember, now that I saw it on TV.

 

 

Anyways, it's hard to buy a gun in France, we don't have problems with them, that's all... ban guns...

 

 

That's obvious, but I bet there're people who own guns in France even if it's forbidden!

 

EDIT: I read the link that you gave.

 

Religion can be the origin of it too, if I get it right...

[Petit Prince]

Anyways, it's hard to buy a gun in France, we don't have problems with them, that's all... ban guns...

 

canada's laws on gun ownership are pretty much similar to the ones in the us according to michael moores documentary but theres little gun crimes in canada.

[Ondes Martenot]

The roots of the problem (ie. senseless violence) stem in large part from the pressures that our society places on people today. Acts of violence such as this one should cause us to critically re-evaluate ourselves and our way of life (culture). A serious change needs to be made.

 

this won't happen. that's why we need the law. the law is the only thing that can keep human beings between limits. we'd be animals, otherwise.

 

stating that Virginia's gun law didn't play any role in this is bullshit. if the laws weren't so lax there, this accident might have never happened. not likely, but there's still a possibility. i personally can't imagine myself organising (getting a gun, bullet vest etc.) such an event here, in my country. the law doesn't allow it. that's the point

 

social problems do play a role as well, but that guy wasn't the only one who had them.

 

with the gun laws they have now, the odds that a similar event can happen there is higher than in the states/countries where the gun laws are much stricter ;)

[GazeboflossUK]

And also....remember 157 more people died from bombs in Iraq today.

[GazeboflossUK]

this won't happen. that's why we need the law. the law is the only thing that can keep human beings between limits. we'd be animals, otherwise.

 

stating that Virginia's gun law didn't play any role in this is bullshit. if the laws weren't so lax there, this accident might have never happened. not likely, but there's still a possibility. i personally can't imagine myself organising (getting a gun, bullet vest etc.) such an event here, in my country. the law doesn't allow it. that's the point

 

social problems do play a role as well, but that guy wasn't the only one who had them.

 

with the gun laws they have now, the odds that a similar event can happen there is higher than in the states/countries where the gun laws are much stricter ;)

 

No, sorry, I think I'll just have to completely disagree with you here.

 

It's a tough subject but Having a gun and wanting to kill people in cold blood are two very different issues.

[Ondes Martenot]

Having a gun and wanting to kill people in cold blood are two very different issues.

 

having a gun raises the possibilty of a crime

[GazeboflossUK]

having a gun raises the possibilty of a crime

 

That's a sweeping statement though...

 

He could have used ANYTHING to kill people - gun, knife, sword, poison...you name it.

 

This guy was a depressive - and can not be held up as a rational human being.

 

 

I do agree that students shouldn't be allowed to have such weapons on campus - Coz why would they need them there.

[Ondes Martenot]

canada's laws on gun ownership are pretty much similar to the ones in the us according to michael moores documentary but theres little gun crimes in canada.

 

Canada is no.5 at homicides, suicides ranking among industrialised countries

 

US being 1st

 

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/figures/00001168.gif

[Ondes Martenot]

He could have used ANYTHING to kill people - gun, knife, sword, poison...you name it.

 

i doubt he'd have killed 32 people with a knife or a sword. not impossible, but very unlikely. gun is a different issue

 

This guy was a depressive - and can not be held up as a rational human being.

 

true. but that is unpredictable. i mean, no-one can tell at the first sight who's sick as he was, and who's not

[emilien88]

I agree with you, Lunar1126... So, according to what you said, our way of life would be the cause of the violence...

And by pression, I guess you mean money, all what rules our world, finally, the basics of it: the economy, politics, the way of it works, of everything works...

 

Are we on a wrong way... I mean, Is the whole world on the wrong way?

 

 

Thank you for telling us what happened, Gazeboflossuk, I didn't know about it, although I remember, now that I saw it on TV.

 

 

 

 

 

That's obvious, but I bet there're people who own guns in France even if it's forbidden!

 

EDIT: I read the link that you gave.

 

Religion can be the origin of it too, if I get it right...

 

 

 

 

Yeah, but there is no big problem!

Even the Police never uses their guns!

[GazeboflossUK]

1 death is enough.....especially when there is seemingly no reason for him to target these particular people.

 

There were people who were aware of his behaviour - and police did let him get away with his spree for quite a long time. Just watch the cops on the video's....they do nothing.

 

This guy was on a mission.

 

I just don't want this to be used and turned into mass gun seizure in the US - it's a plan which has been put forward by the fake conservatives for a long time.

 

Columbine was a government engineered op...(in my honest opinion - and people, do NOT go mad unless you've looked at it, seriously)...and I don't see why this is any different...BUT...I guess lots of research is needed.....because not everything is the government......but many things are.

 

Anyway...I don't want to get too much into that here.

 

This thing is sad, whatever the cause.

[emilien88]

canada's laws on gun ownership are pretty much similar to the ones in the us according to michael moores documentary but theres little gun crimes in canada.

 

 

 

Maybe in the Usa, the interdiction could be good, just try

[GazeboflossUK]

Any bet there was some kind of federal hold put on the police etc....before they could do anything.

 

Just out listen for it, I'd bet alot of money on this.

[GazeboflossUK]

From a fellow investigator....

 

VT Killing Spree + 2 days and already the discrepancies are piling up...

 

1) It seems that it was the police who advised Cho to seek counselling after two women filed complaints that he was stalking them (end of 2005). Remember, we were previously told by Lucinda Roy, his English tutor, that she referred him there after reading disturbing assignments written by him.

 

2) The police said they advised counselling after receiving a phone call from someone claiming to be Cho's friend who said that he was suicidal. Yet all reports thus far have stated that Cho was a misanthropic recluse who wouldn't even speak to his own room mates. Both have had interviews aired and neither mentioned him seeking counselling let alone reporting him as suicidal to police. Who was Cho's concerned friend?

 

3) Under some pressure today from journalists, a Blacksburg police spokesman revealed that Cho had been assessed at a mental health facility. When pressed further whether he had ever been detained as a patient he stated he believed that he had and, when pressed further still, he said that the facility might have been in the city of St Albans. BUT...

 

He refused to give any referral, admission release dates etc, stating that this was 'protected information' (mental health care is shrouded in secrecy but this statement is misleading).

 

4) Crucially the police spokesman did not say whether it was the Cook Counselling Center at VT that had referred him for mental health assessment and still no one from the center has come forward to clarify whether Cho had visited them or not.

 

5) Within 36 hours of the shootings the police confirmed that ballistic tests had proved that the same Glock pistol had been used at the Amberley and Norris Hall crime scenes and that Cho's finger prints were found on the weapon. I am no expert in forensics but this seems an extraordinarily quick turn around. Yet...

 

Amazingly today, the police spokesman started to gently row back from the assertion that Cho was the Amberley house shooter and breathed new life into an earlier theory that the killings at Amberley and Norris could have been unrelated. But how can this be if the ballistics and fingerprints tests show that Cho was at both scenes?

 

6) A Taiwanese student reported that he heard Cho rowing with Emily Hilscher shortly before he shot her, thus becoming his first 'unofficial' victim. This source stated that Cho had a crush on her and that he might have become jealous as a result of her forming an attachment with someone else (other reports go further, but in the light of what we know about Cho and the note that he left behind, which made no mention of Hirschler, these are certainly baloney). Apparently, according to some reports, the police were informed of this in a 911 call. So why did they go looking for another suspect off campus?

 

7) As yet, no comprehensive reports about Cho's family or pre university life have surfaced. His high school has been preternaturally quiet. Is this because the media portrayal of Cho is not one they recognize?

 

My Theory

 

Cho may have had problems adapting to life in VT or had some emotional crisis. He probably visited the Cook Counselling Center. There, he either had the misfortune of falling into the hands of a 'spotter' or was genuinely referred to a mental health assessment center (in which case his department and personal tutor must have been informed) where the 'psychiatrists' took over.

 

The crucial thing here, of course, is the timing. My belief is that much of Cho's deranged literary efforts and probably the stalking episodes too was the product of prolonged and frequent post hypnotic suggestion.

 

He may also have been subjected to ECT and , who knows, at the time of the killings may have been dosed up with a powerful neuro-transmitter controlling agent (does IPSODAL really exist?).

 

It may emerge over the next few days that Cho's treatment did indeed pre date all of his aberrant behaviour described above.

 

-Pincher

 

 

*One only has to remember back to the UK police statements regarding Charles De Menezes, all manner of high level police officers wheeled before the worlds MSM, regalling us with, De Menezes sprinting and hurdling barriers, De Menezes failing to stop when ordered to, De Menezes having a long heavy overcoat with wires protruding from underneath and acting suspiciously. As we now know, after waiting years for the 'home run' inquiry, all that the police said was a pack of lies.*

 

-Long Tooth

FACT: We ARE lied to. So do your own research.

[The Mad Hatter]

About the whole gun banning idea...

 

 

Guns SHOULD NOT be banned.

 

Drugs are illegal, but people still get them and use them.

If guns were banned, it would be even more dangerous than it is with guns legal.

 

What would be next? Banning sharp, pointy objects? Maybe even cleaning products which may poison people?

 

If the idea is to stop violence, it'll never happen. There will always be people with the urge to kill, and there will always be things available to kill people with.

[huntjd]

i disagree with all of you. in australia which i'll have you know had the worst mass shooting ever in Port Arthur in Tasmania in 1996, a gunman walked into a tourist cafe and went crazy.

 

as a result the australian government became incredibly tight on gun control laws. it is almost impossible in australia to purchase guns, and even with a gun you can only discharge them in certain areas (hunting grounds) and witha licence that is reviewed yearly.

 

so since the gun control laws were brought in how many shootings have there been? one. this is not concerned with underworld events (my city has a slightly infamous notoriety around it). since port arthur there has been just one serial shooting in australia.

 

so you don't want to ban guns, go ahead. make a terrible decision, but don't start whinging when another massacre happens in 5 years time. no offence and all due respect to those who died, but the US had it coming.

 

*i also know there was another uni shooting earlier this year in arizona where 3 people were killed*

 

then you ask why this all happens, like i said, gun control and lets not forget the politics of a state. this is the same country who cruises around the world shooting people needlessly.