Great news, I agree, but I suppose 4,000 vehicle sales for citroen isn't much.. :laugh3: Maybe the answer is: drive the old autos with the gas chugger engines maybe once a week, the rest of the time bicycle? Sure would help out the American public - less heart attacks if everyone exercised like that! Probably not gonna happen either, although, driving here is in sharp decline (relatively speaking, that is).

I like the idea of the pedal car option, where a little of the power comes from pedaling, plus the exercise is great and it's pretty safe compared to being defenseless on a bike. The Swiss have a vehicle like this offered..

 

 

You my friend want one of these bad beasts:

 

I got myself a new green vehicle today

 

 

 

 

Very green indeed

:laugh3:

I got myself a new green vehicle today

 

 

 

 

Very green indeed

:laugh3:Now that must have set you back a few quid! Better keep it clean and polished - getting mud on the treads can shorten vehicle life, and dull the finish!

That vehicle looks vaguely Sherman, probably made in Detroit! (maybe the last vehicle we made in Detroit?)..

So how many gallons per mile does it get?:laugh3:

You my friend want one of these bad beasts:

 

Great for sidewalks - would be a challenge here with all the traffic though.. I always wanted one of those big wheel trikes when I was a kid.. hm.. if only it had a big wheel in front! 7911hemi_big_wheel-med.jpg (JPEG Image, 600x343 pixels)

(more engine than one needs though..)

:laugh3:

:laugh3:Now that must have set you back a few quid! Better keep it clean and polished - getting mud on the treads can shorten vehicle life, and dull the finish!

That vehicle looks vaguely Sherman, probably made in Detroit! (maybe the last vehicle we made in Detroit?)..

So how many gallons per mile does it get?:laugh3:

 

 

Gets a good 40 gallons per mile ;)

Gets a good 40 gallons per mile ;)

:laugh3: Perhaps a little better than that, but probably not a whole lot better.

But if you only drive it on Sundays... just to church and back - that might be alright. ;)

I suppose it helps driving when you need the right-of-way and other drivers refuse to yield?

I've modified it so it runs on water, hydrogen fuel-cell.

 

Very nifty :P

 

In other news, I've perfected the art of gently slowing down to arrive at traffic lights without having to brake

I've modified it so it runs on water, hydrogen fuel-cell.

 

Very nifty :P

 

In other news, I've perfected the art of gently slowing down to arrive at traffic lights without having to brake

> Sure! But at the price of bottled water, I wonder if that's much improvement!:laugh3:

As per the art of slowing down to a stop with no braking, that's quite an accomplishment. Just don't forget that you can use brakes though! I got pretty good at that about a month ago when my car brakes sprung a leak - managed to nurse the vehicle home, it really made me aware of how much inertia autos have.

Here's an Electric car from Mitsubishi - if you want to give it a gander:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZjY5pOhChc]YouTube - DRIVE- Mitsubishi i-MiEV[/ame]

It looks pretty cool, and I really like the selective driving modes on the shifter. Pretty good ranges: 55 miles for sports mode, 85-100 miles if driven gently with little use of accessories, wonder if filling stations would let a person charge-up?

The average MPG for the past 100 hours running for my car came to 57.6 MPG.

 

That;s the target for the next 100 hours until it resets again :D

The average MPG for the past 100 hours running for my car came to 57.6 MPG.

 

That;s the target for the next 100 hours until it resets again :D

>Nice! That works out to the equivalent of 48 MPG U.S., or 4.9 L per 100 km. What is possible is truly amazing, even with the vehicles available today. What are the odds of convincing your fellow United Kingdom citizens to do the same?

Something more on the i MiEV - Clocks-like music accompanying the video: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idYS-JTyYCk&feature=player_embedded]YouTube - 2010 Mistubishi iMiev Electric Car Performance Test:cool:[/ame]

I managed to get the computer average up to 16.5 by driving like a complete grandma, it's a good job I only do about 3000 or 4000 miles per year maximum, I tend to cycle more these days.

I managed to get the computer average up to 16.5 by driving like a complete grandma, it's a good job I only do about 3000 or 4000 miles per year maximum, I tend to cycle more these days.

 

16.5 MPG, what do you drive, a supercar?

No a petrol 4x4.

16.5 is still pretty poor

I know it's poor, but I like the car and do very few miles per year which are nearly all city driving, I probably spend the same amount on fuel as someone who does 10000 miles per year in a Ford Focus:confused:.

http://www.care2.com/news/member/193692282/2825373

 

http://www.enn.com/top_stories/article/42759

 

From: David A Gabel, ENN

Published June 1, 2011 09:41 AM

 

How to Bring Electric Vehicles to the Mass Market

 

Electric cars are not a new concept in the automotive industry. They were around before the pre-eminence of the internal combustion engine in the 1890s. They were introduced again in the United States in the 1990s with GM's EV1, but were dropped when GM decided they are unprofitable. Now the Chevy Volt is out and several more models will be hitting the market soon. Automakers must figure out how to avoid having their electric vehicles suffer an agonizing death in the niche market, and instead, figure out how to get 100 million EVs on the road.

 

The single biggest complaint against electric vehicles is their lack of range, so the batteries must be addressed. They must be cheaper, safer, last longer, and contain higher levels of energy. Scientific laboratories around the country are studying how to make these improvements. In particular, the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab), which is recognized as a top lab in the country for battery research, is working to make incremental improvements to batteries as well as come up with breakthrough technologies.

 

Researchers hope to make electric vehicles as common place as electrical handheld devices and computers. "I think with incremental improvements in batteries, engineering advances in the car and support from the government, these are all things that will make it a reality," says Berkeley Lab scientist Marca Doeff. "And there's considerable enthusiasm among the population as a whole, so I think it's going to happen."

 

Battery technology is extremely complex, filled with trade-offs. For example, by increasing the energy density so it contains more charge, the life of the battery will be shorter. Also, if you wanted to make a safer battery, the energy density will be lower. These are among the many issues facing the development of lithium-ion batteries.

 

The researchers are striving to reach the goal of the Department of Energy's FreedomCAR: a plug-in hybrid electric with a range of 40 miles and a battery life of 15 years. One reason why the government is pushing this research is to bring battery manufacturing back to the United States. About 20 years ago, nearly all lithium-ion battery production moved to Asia. In order to beat China, Japan, and Korea, the US needs a big breakthrough.

 

Another prohibitive factor which may keep electric vehicles from the mass market is that they are costly. The batteries are currently $1,000/kilowatt hour and the DOE's goal is to bring that cost down to $150/kilowatt hour. Many researchers are skeptical of the DOE’s goal; it would be like all-electric vehicles having the same range as typical cars, about 300 miles.

 

To cut costs, battery makers need new sources of raw materials. For example, the cobalt oxide used for cathodes in lithium-ion batteries is expensive and comes from politically unstable regions. Options being explored for cathode material include lithium iron phosphate, lithium manganese oxide spinel, titanium, and aluminum.

 

Sixty percent of the batteries cost comes from the raw materials and forty percent from the manufacturing process which can have up to sixty steps. If cheaper materials can be secured and the manufacturing process streamlined, real cost savings can be realized. Then, perhaps, electric vehicles will be widely adopted. At this moment, too many people are invested in making sure EVs make it. The United States does not want them to suffer another agonizing death.

 

For more information on Berkeley Lab’s battery research: http://www.ucop.edu/sciencetoday/article/25658

I'm currently averaging 61.1 MPG in the last 5 hours of driving time :)

 

Will probably drop next week when I'm back to work :(

That's excellent Mileage David! True though - when there's time to spare, we all drive more gently, but when we're in a rush to get to work, it's a different story altogether!

This is a pretty good comparison of mileage one might expect to get from some of the manufactured fuel efficient cars out there in the marketplace, c/o Nancy: Most fuel-efficient cars

It's not all inclusive, but at least that's a start!

 

Perhaps the best car would be to just mount two bicycles together, add a little booster motor for the hills, and pedal the rest of the time! :) (that's pretty much how cars stared out anyhow!)

Dropped down to 60.2 at one point (damn unpredictable roadworks), but I've managed to recover the average to 60.7 with a granny drive averaging 65. Still pretty good for a 9 year old 1.9 tdi

Dropped down to 60.2 at one point (damn unpredictable roadworks), but I've managed to recover the average to 60.7 with a granny drive averaging 65. Still pretty good for a 9 year old 1.9 tdi

That's still quite good mileage David! Ah Skoda, the Czech Volkswagen! Great car, excellent mileage. Here, it's just the familiar Oldsmobuick, nowhere's near as good a mileage as that. True, hypermiling can double mileage, but you're right - that only works well when there's no rush of traffic. ;) Today, I had to make quite a few unexpected stops, first a deer, then for a bear. Can really put a 'dent' in one's mileage! My average is around 34 MPG US, which works out to 40 Imperial MPG; I try to line ducks up in a row, and make fewer trips. I have decided to get the old 10-speed working again - 11 miles of biking shouldn't be all that hard to handle... :thinking:

If I cut the need for the car in half, then I've basically doubled the mileage! Almost as good as a 9-year-old tdi;)

 

http://www.care2.com/greenliving/driving-the-electric-nissan-leaf-interview.html

 

Driving the Electric Nissan Leaf (Interview)

 

posted by Jake Richardson Jun 10, 2011 2:02 pm

 

 

Donn Davy is a green building consultant, who with his wife, just purchased an electric Nissan Leaf. He generously agreed to the following interview.

 

Q: What are your personal impressions of the Leaf?

 

My wife and I love the car, and we vie for time to drive it. It feels quiet and peaceful to drive it. We both don’t feel good about driving gas-guzzlers anymore.

 

Q: What interested you in it initially, and why did you buy it, compared with other fuel-efficient vehicles, such as a Toyota Prius or Chevy Volt?

 

We planned on getting an electric car years ago. They are best for the environment, and we try to live in an environmentally friendly way. We have solar panels on our house, and we knew we could use them also to power an electric car. (We are nature lovers and amateur botanists.)

 

Q: Do you do all the battery charging at home, or are you able to find charging stations while traveling?

 

There are not so many remote charging stations available – normally we plan our driving so we have enough charge so we don’t need to charge other than at home. We have used remote charging at a Point Reyes restaurant, a church in San Francisco, and a college in Oakland using standard outlets.

 

Q: How long does it take to charge the battery to full when it has been depleted?

 

It depends, though we have never depleted it fully. Five and a half hours is the longest charge for us, and we charge in the middle of the night. The car actually calculates when to start charging, and we set the charger to turn off at a certain time. For 110 chargers we get about 5 miles of electricity for one hour of charging, and at 220 maybe 3-4 time as many miles for the same charging time. There are fast chargers available up to 80 percent of a full charge in 30 minutes, but not widely available, and not open to the public in our area.

 

Q: Reports put the range at 60-100 miles. What kind of range have you been getting?

 

Exactly that. If you are driving 70-75 on the freeway you probably won’t get 60. The lower end of the range is for the freeway speeds. It has a lot of power and pickup, and will go 90 mph. Driving carefully with a blend of freeway and city miles, and using the Eco Mode to drive carefully, I have driven 80 miles, with 15 left over on a single charge. After the battery gauge indicates it is empty, there could still be 15-20 miles left. We think with careful driving we might get over 100 miles.

 

Q: What would you say to someone who is new to electric vehicles and home charging about how to make the transition?

 

My advice is nothing – you just do it, what you consider is whether your driving requires you to go further than 80 miles. If it does, then you need another car. This car is a commuter car. If you only occasionally go farther, why not rent a car when you need to go farther? It will be far cheaper than owning a second car.

 

Q: What has been the biggest win so far in purchasing an electric car?

 

The biggest win is we feel really good about our contribution to the environment. The biggest thrill is driving past gas stations and knowing I will never use them. You can go about 40 miles for a dollar’s worth of electricity. My solar panels on my house, over a year, actually produce more electricity than it consumes, but it appears so far we might need some electricity from the grid as well to charge the Leaf.

 

Q: I sat in parked Leaf at an electric vehicle fair, and was impressed by the roominess for a small car. What are some of the things you like most about it so far?

 

We like the concept – we are driving a chic, stylish and environmentally friendly vehicle. It actually has more space for passengers than our Forester (Subaru). It is comfortable, and roomy.

 

Q: How much of the sticker price did the rebates reduce it by, and which rebates apply to your Leaf?

 

It is the most affordable car we have purchased, after the rebates: $34,000 minus a five percent dealer discount, then a $7,500 federal rebate, plus a $5,000 check back from the California government. After all the rebates and discount it was only $21,000.

 

Q: What is the lifespan of the battery pack?

 

Warrantied for either 8 or 10 years.

 

Q: Is the car insurance the same as a gas-powered car the same size?

 

The car insurance is approximately the same.

 

Q: What kind of improvements would you like to see to the Leaf?

 

More range – closer to the range you are used to with driving gas-powered cars. Soon there will be quick charging stations though all up and down the West Coast. The predictor of how many remaining miles you have is very inaccurate – it is based on the last ten minutes of driving, like if you have been driving uphill, it predicts little is left, but that is not indicative of your whole trip. The quick charging port is in a configuration that may not be adopted in the U.S., it is the one used in Japan. So my quick charging port might have to be changed. It has great pickup, and corners well, but it feels heavy, and is heavy because of the battery pack. In five years, full charging faster than filling up at a gas station might be possible. I do recommend the car for purchasing, and have talked with other Leaf owners who are every enthusiastic.

 

Image Credit: Tennen Gas

Leap Ahead, it's just a short hop away.

 

I'm heartened:heart::sunny: to see the innovations already at work in the industry, and it can only get better! Here's a look at what's ahead, and what could be right around the corner, if we demand it as consumers: About Hypercars

It's a question of matter. Today's green electrics weigh in around 3500 lbs / 1588 Kg, Light hypercars weigh in around 1500 lbs. / 680 Kg. The battery pack in a Nissan Leaf for example weighs around 660 lbs. / 300Kg, and can propel the leaf closer to 75 miles / 120 km, making it good for commutes, but a challenge for greater distances. If the vehicle weight were brought down closer to 1500 lbs (680 Kg) and efficiency improved on aerodynamics, one might expect a range closer to 150 miles / 240km. Doubling the battery pack energy density would up that to 300 / 480, making it much more desirable with a fast charger station within reach.

One might ask, why isn't this already a reality? The best guess I can give for this is for several reason. (1) auto makers are geared to stamp out, spot weld, and finish steel. Their plants are set this way, and they don't want to retool. (2) Composites are expensive - volume production and innovations in earth-friendly composites would change this part of the equation, but it's a chicken and egg problem unless our governments step in and tip the balance in favor of ultralight bodies. (3) Market forces regarding fuel expenses must change to move the market towards efficient vehicles. (4) The lion's share of the profits are in big, heavy autos - the higher the tag price, the greater the profit margin per vehicle. (5) psychology and marketing.

>>>Change is coming, hopefully soon enough to slow the problems mounting in the environment from our current fuelish ways!

An electric car is only green if the electricity used to charge the batteries comes from renewable sources :P

An electric car is only green if the electricity used to charge the batteries comes from renewable sources :P

> How about North Sea... Wind?! :P

You are correct, the electricity must be green - and with all the potential wind energy sources, we should be just fine. And for those desert dwellers, solar is the right choice as well.