Disclaimer: I've been reading the bill.

 

But private insurance plans will still exist due to the grandfather clause!

 

True, but what will happen when the majority of companies in the U.S switch to the public policy because it will cost much less than any private plans? The gov't-backed plan will crowd out the market.

 

But it will cost less! That's good for Americans in general, right?

 

1) Theoretically in the beginning it will. Practically-free coverage for $5,000 and $10,000 "damage" amounts will be great. However, the government is in control of this policy. Because it's not a private company, any changes to the benefits of the plan or the cost or the amount covered can't be appealed. Basically, once the public policy crowds out the private sector, the government can do whatever it wants.

 

2) End Of Life Counseling: Where do I start... How about with this quote from the National Review Online

Anyway, there [President Obama] was reassuring the crowd that provision for mandatory “end-of-life counseling” has “gotten spun into this idea of ‘death panels.’ I am not in favor of that.” Well, that’s good to know. So good that a grateful audience applauded the president’s pledge not to kill them. He has no plans, as he put it, to “pull the plug on Grandma.”

 

The problem with government health systems is not that they pull the plug on Grandma. It’s that Grandma has a hell of a time getting plugged in in the first place. The only way to “control costs” is to restrict access to treatment, and the easiest people to deny treatment to are the oldsters. Don’t worry, it’s all very scientific. In Britain, they use a “Quality-Adjusted Life Year” formula to decide that you don’t really need that new knee because you’re gonna die in a year or two, maybe a decade-and-a-half tops. So it’s in the national interest for you to go around hobbling in pain rather than divert “finite resources” away from productive members of society to a useless old geezer like you. And you’d be surprised how quickly geezerdom kicks in: A couple of years back, some Quebec facilities were attributing death from hospital-contracted infection of anyone over 55 to “old age.” Well, he had a good innings. He was 57.

But, under any government system that interjects a bureaucracy between you and your health, the elderly and not-so-elderly get denied treatment. And there’s nothing you can do about it because, ultimately, government health represents the nationalization of your body. You’re 84, 72, 63, 58, you’ve had a good innings. It’s easy for him to say. And even easier for his army of bureaucrats.

Disclaimer: I've been reading the bill.

 

That's good, because ignorance of the law is no excuse! (Or so say the statists.) ;)

 

How to lower the cost of healthcare?

 

1. End patents on drugs. Generics for everything.

2. End doctor licensure. Anyone can practice medicine.

3. End malpractice lawsuits. You accept the risk when you agree to a procedure.

4. End compulsory insurance. Insurance companies must advertise directly to customers.

5. End medical school licensure. Anyone can teach medicine.

 

The medical field would explode with new ideas, organizations, businesses, etc.

 

Viva Anarchy!

Hold up Jay...no licenses for Doctors? Sure, there would be private ways of reviewing doctors and all, but I'd much rather see a doctor who has some sort of license from a recognized organization of doctors.

Well yeah there might be organizations that rate doctors and give them a "Smart Cat Seal of Approval" or whatever, but nobody would be outright barred from practicing medicine if they wanted to.

Well yeah there might be organizations that rate doctors and give them a "Smart Cat Seal of Approval" or whatever, but nobody would be outright barred from practicing medicine if they wanted to.

 

Well yea, but only the retards would go to other retards for treatment.

Hold up Jay...no licenses for Doctors? Sure, there would be private ways of reviewing doctors and all, but I'd much rather see a doctor who has some sort of license from a recognized organization of doctors.

 

I'm going to agree with Josh here, I want my Doc to have a good license I don't want just any clown practicing medicine, otherwise I'd be doing it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6zYMZaPLgc]YouTube - 8/13/2009 Peter Schiff On FOX Business: Free-Market Health Care?[/ame]

ROFL! Let the free market run health care?!?!?! You're crazy nick!!! WE NEED GOVERNMENT TO TELL US WHAT TO DO!

I'm going to agree with Josh here, I want my Doc to have a good license I don't want just any clown practicing medicine, otherwise I'd be doing it.

 

Nick a license is permission from the government to practice in the US, and it's pointless. It's just a way for the American Medical Association to limit the number of practicing doctors (ie monopolize the industry for their union).

 

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649

 

Here are some fun stats for the Canadians and UK and Aussies who enjoy pushing their socialist crap on people who prefer being somewhat free.

Well yea. By definition, licenses are stupid, but you made it sound like we're going to have random assholes performing surgery on you.

Well yeah, you can get your cosmetic surgery done by your neighbor's kid with his dad's power drill. But don't expect to come out looking like Angelina Jolie.

Well yeah, you can get your cosmetic surgery done by your neighbor's kid with his dad's power drill. But don't expect to come out looking like Angelina Jolie.

 

That may be a good thing, Angelina is ugly.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul

 

Before:

 

"I am pleased by the progress we're making on health care reform and still believe' date=' as I've said before, that one of the best ways to bring down costs, provide more choices and assure quality is a public option that will force the insurance companies to compete and keep them honest," Obama said in July.[/quote']

 

After:

 

"All I'm saying is, though, that the public option, whether we have it or we don't have it, is not the entirety of health care reform," Obama said at a town hall meeting in Grand Junction, Colo. "This is just one sliver of it, one aspect of it."

 

Lulz.

Disclaimer: I've been reading the bill.

 

Well then you've done more then Obama or most of Congress! lol(ITS LOL NOT LULZ JAY!)

^lulz

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jbjzPEY0Y3bvRD335rGu_Z3KXoQw

 

Oh Josh! Rockin the Mises avatar! *gang sign*

That article so so much win. I came a little.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9GMKK_fWKg]YouTube - ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan[/ame]

 

Why do people take this? Canada is not a 3rd world nation, they can vote and fix this problem, yet they don't? It makes no sense.

I hate the phrase "anti-american". :dozey:

I hate the phrase "anti-american". :dozey:

 

What are you talking about?

What are you talking about?

 

When people call things "anti-american". As if everything that's American is fucking awesome.

When people call things "anti-american". As if everything that's American is fucking awesome.

 

Stop being anti-American Josh.

:veryangry2:

I once got pretty sick with acute bronchitis. I had to go urgent care. I have no health care. I have a shit ton of mula to pay back.

 

I do understand why people are against national/social heath care system and why people are also for it.

 

But............ can we all agree that health care should be cheaper. if not free, more affordable.. Especially in america? That is just my opinion. Of course, mine is going to be different seeing as how I have none and I come from a more middle/working class family.

I do understand why people are against national/social heath care system and why people are also for it.

 

Did you watch the video I posted? It pretty much explains it, how bad it is to get good treatment on time, many people are forced to go to America to get treatment. I'm against it because I like going to the doctor and getting in and if I need treatment getting it right away, most nations with NHS have to wait forever to get treatment. My mom would have probably died from her cancer if we had NHS.

 

Second, innovation comes from competition and people trying to make a profit, the cure for cancers or AIDs won't come from governments but from the private sector trying to make a profit. Prices need to come down but government involvement isn't the answer because I'd rather pay a lot of money to live then have free health care but not get the treatment I needed on time. But there are things that can be done to bring down the price, like getting the government out of medicine and stopping wasteful lawsuits.

 

I suspect billions a year are wasted on medical lawsuits, that why doctors have to pay so much for insurance and pass the expenses on to us.