Fuck spoiler tags, if you've not seen the episodes and come in here, it's your own fault.

 

"My theory is that it's an alternate universe" aww bless.

 

Here is my tl;dr

 

Starting with annoyances:

 

it's not just me who was disappointed with certain aspects, I mean yeah I loved it but I could easily sit and pick it to pieces, some of it was cringey and I'm actually disappointed that some of the mystery is gone surrounding Smokey and the ash etc :( They really whored the ash, just to drill it into you that the ash did keep Esau out.

 

The whole alternate reality seems to just be "OMG *insert character* IS HERE", I'm sure that will pick up once it goes on, but to be honest most of the characters I really don't care enough about, like if we have to go throuigh Sun & Jin's tiresome story about how he's a dick again I wont be amused. Desmond better have a decent reason for being on the plane as well, Charlie can fuck off though.

 

The Japanese guy is one of the worst new characters I've seen "I don't like the way English tastes on my tongue" I facepalmed at that, so bad. Juliet should have been dead the whole time, Kate being in a fucking tree proved there was a blast radius, so how did Juliet survive? The CGI was as bad as Ben's smokey judgment, but I think other than that it was amazing, haha.

 

 

 

 

Now for the good stuff...(these are mainly just me making theories/ideas based on what's happened)

 

Jack remembers, he doesn't know it yet, but he does. The time he's gunna spend with Locke will bring that out :headbang2: I hope that's the case anyway otherwise the AR is just gunna be "oh look how different it is now" Oh and Jack on island, I hope he has a proper breakdown, he's already showing signs of distraught that he can't help everyone, it would be amazing if that built up on him ove the series and he went mental.

 

Desmond is possibly doing his Billy Pilgrim thing again...or he could have just went back to his seat :lol: I'm really interested to see more of the differences the AR brings, with Hurley being lucky etc. A lot of them don't seem to be as obviously opposite as that, Kate is still a convict, Sawyer still a conman etc.

 

Juliet was clearly preggers and Miles was covering it up, doesn't make sense that she would say "it worked". I love Miles as well, he's developed quite a lot from when we first saw him, felt kinda bad for him when Sawyer was just using him ti gear what Juliet was saying.

 

CHRISTIAN DISAPPEARED OFF THE PLANE :o If the island wasn't doing an atlantis impression I would have bet he was there, he's the main mystery for me now, assuming he's not Esau...who is he?

 

Hurley was amazing all episode, hilarious throughout and I loved him taking lead for once, although I am disappointed he actually can see dead people

 

The Temple! Love the aztec design even though it directly contradicts all the Egyptian stuff. This makes me wonder just what they did to Ben as well...how do they actually "heal" people there, as from what I saw it seemed like they were just getting Sayid ready to become Jacob (This is jumping to a massive conclusion based on a theory though) Everything about it implies that it was more than just him dying, more of a rebirth, the way they drowned him was exactly like a baptism, which of course in Christianity, is a rebirth of sort. They carried him in a crucifix position. The water wasn't clear, it was reddish, possibly with the blood of Jacob? Ok I've realised the water would normally heal, as the Japanese guy looks confused / concerned as his cut hand didn't heal when it was in the water. I don't think they really knew what they were doing though.

 

I know I complained about the "fan service" earlier, but I did kinda jizz when Claire was already in Kate's cab, but at least that is some kind of interaction that they can build on, look forward to seeing what happens there :wowimsurprised:

 

Esau wants to "go home", what is home to him? This is fascinating, does that mean he's trapped on the island too? How long has he been there? AHhhh that one sentence asks so many questions. While I'm on that subject though, the scenes with Esau and Ben are so amazing, Terry O'Quinn and Michael Emerson bounce off each other so well.

 

Esau got shot, barely reacted to it, can he only die a certain way? The bullet hit him in the chest, the hit the floor once he vanished.

 

Christian, like I said, is the biggest mystery to me atm.

Could it also be that somehow Jacob meeting each of the characters at the end of season 6 may have to do with why Sayid is alive?

Jacob didn't meet with Juliet or Miles... so perhaps Miles future is sealed as Juliets was?

 

It's also quite ironic how Ben was taken to the Temple to be saved after Sayid shot him, and then Sayid needed to be taken to the temple to be saved after Ben's father shot him.

 

 

I am also interested when "Locke" says that he wants to go back home... I wonder exactly what he means by that.

 

 

Christian has always been a mystery in the show. I've also wondered exactly who is he and what is his relation to the island. I remember reading and thinking that perhaps he was Jacob, but i guess not.

 

 

I'm interested to know why the island was sunk like atlantis. Perhaps there was some balance due to the electromagnetism or something so that when the bomb detonated the balance was thrown off.

 

 

Also the name "Esau"... where is that coming from? I thought that this characters name is unknown as of yet.

Japanese guy is one of the worst new characters I've seen "I don't like the way English tastes on my tongue" I facepalmed at that, so bad. Juliet should have been dead the whole time, Kate being in a fucking tree proved there was a blast radius, so how did Juliet survive? The CGI was as bad as Ben's smokey judgment, but I think other than that it was amazing, haha.

 

I think the whole Temple thing is just weird. It's very unlikely that a large group of people just live in a freaking temple in the middle of the island. And how is it possible to not notice them in anyway since they seem to have lived there for quite a while...

I didn't found myself liking the Chinese dude neither the John Lennon guy.

 

And about Christian just disappearing, It's just impossible to find a valid explanation. There are just so many question about him, I mean how did he come became alive on the island in the first place?

 

I thought the whole 'It worked' thing that Julie said was kind of interesting. And what's more interesting is that Sawyer just seems to ignore it.

 

And by the way didn't Richard answer 'Atlantis' in Latin on "What lies in shadow of the statue?" in the last episode of the fifth season. I just think I read that somewhere...

Christian is a big mystery.

 

He's so creepy. :uhoh:

Could it also be that somehow Jacob meeting each of the characters at the end of season 6 may have to do with why Sayid is alive?

Jacob didn't meet with Juliet or Miles... so perhaps Miles future is sealed as Juliets was?

 

It's also quite ironic how Ben was taken to the Temple to be saved after Sayid shot him, and then Sayid needed to be taken to the temple to be saved after Ben's father shot him.

 

 

I am also interested when "Locke" says that he wants to go back home... I wonder exactly what he means by that.

 

 

Christian has always been a mystery in the show. I've also wondered exactly who is he and what is his relation to the island. I remember reading and thinking that perhaps he was Jacob, but i guess not.

 

 

I'm interested to know why the island was sunk like atlantis. Perhaps there was some balance due to the electromagnetism or something so that when the bomb detonated the balance was thrown off.

 

 

Also the name "Esau"... where is that coming from? I thought that this characters name is unknown as of yet.

 

From what I can gather, he was meeting them to bring them to the island, Juliet and Miles were already there or heading there. The ones he met had to be on a specific flight under the right circimstances.

 

I think it implies that Esau is actually trapped on the island, possibly by something Jacob did.

 

Christian COULD be Esau, but he's done things that would benefit both Jacob and Esau so I'm not so certain, he did tell Locke to go off the island and kill himself though, so that sways it heavily towards the side that he is Esau.

 

The island I think is just because the nuke went off.

 

Esau is a biblical reference, it makes sense to call him that even though it's not actually his name. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esau

 

 

I think the whole Temple thing is just weird. It's very unlikely that a large group of people just live in a freaking temple in the middle of the island. And how is it possible to not notice them in anyway since they seem to have lived there for quite a while...

I didn't found myself liking the Chinese dude neither the John Lennon guy.

 

And about Christian just disappearing, It's just impossible to find a valid explanation. There are just so many question about him, I mean how did he come became alive on the island in the first place?

 

I thought the whole 'It worked' thing that Julie said was kind of interesting. And what's more interesting is that Sawyer just seems to ignore it.

 

And by the way didn't Richard answer 'Atlantis' in Latin on "What lies in shadow of the statue?" in the last episode of the fifth season. I just think I read that somewhere...

 

The temple is protected by that MASSIVE wall, I'm sure you've seen it, you can't get to the temple without getting around that, the Japanese guy is a penis.

 

Exactly, Christian is a mystery.

 

Sawyer ignored it because it doesn't make sense. I still don't think she said it.

 

No he didn't say Atlantis, he said something to the effect of "He who will save us all" basically just referring to Jacob.

AND WHERE'S CLAIRE BEEN?!

 

Sorry, that just really bothers me that we still don't know. :freak:

AND WHERE'S CLAIRE BEEN?!

 

Sorry, that just really bothers me that we still don't know. :freak:

 

She's with Christian. Those 2 are like Father-Daughter BFFs now. You see her in the cabin with him and then later on in Dharmaville when he's talking to Lapidus and Sun.

I knew she was with Christian, I just didn't know where or why. So many questions unanswered. :lol: Thanks for the help!!

So then as someone mentioned it'd probably be safe to assume that in the alternate universe Ben, Richard, Widmore, Penny, Jacob are all dead then due to the hydrogen bomb going off and destroying the island.

 

Were there any somewhat major characters that got off the island via the sub?

 

 

I'm also wondering what Jacob meant @ the end of Season 5 "They're coming".

 

 

Lastly (I think in season 5) Widmore said that there was a war coming. I guess it could be that it might be the others vs. "Locke"/Esau and whomever joins him (don't really see anyone going against him though unless they want to be killed).

So then as someone mentioned it'd probably be safe to assume that in the alternate universe Ben, Richard, Widmore, Penny, Jacob are all dead then due to the hydrogen bomb going off and destroying the island.

 

Were there any somewhat major characters that got off the island via the sub?

 

 

I'm also wondering what Jacob meant @ the end of Season 5 "They're coming".

 

 

Lastly (I think in season 5) Widmore said that there was a war coming. I guess it could be that it might be the others vs. "Locke"/Esau and whomever joins him (don't really see anyone going against him though unless they want to be killed).

 

Penny exists, Widmore had her off island, she must have been born in the 70s, so I would assume she was born. Meaning that Penny and Des can be together without Charles interfering, or if the timing is slightly wrong then yes, they are all dead.

 

I think Jacob merely meant his "bodyguards" who Esau killed pretty easily. Although it could easily have stronger implications but it's impossible to know at this stage.

 

Same goes for the war really, it's safe to assume it's in some form Jacob vs Esau.

I guess that would make sense now about Penny existing, because she was born off the island (I think Ben or Widmore mentioned that).

 

i guess that would also make sense for the body guards... I guess i was thinking that it could mean Jack and those left behind in the 70s.

 

 

What I'd like to know now that I think more of the episode is how come the smoke monster hasn't attacked the temple in the past? We know that Esau is the smoke monster, and he seems to manifest or live on the outskirts of the temple and it's the ash that protects from it. Perhaps Jacob was somehow protecting the temple, and now that he's dead there's nothing to protect it or something.

 

 

There also always seems to be a struggle between good and evil throughout the show. I think that Esau (as well as probably many others) think that he's the evil one, but perhaps he's good. It will be interesting to watch the rest of the season and see if our perceptions of him change.

What I find surprising in this Jacob vs. Esau conflict is how calm Jacob is about everything. He must know that Esau is a pretty powerful adversary, yet he allows Ben to kill him, and also the "bodyguards" are easily disposed of. It just seems like Jacob is either severely underestimating Esau or he has more tricks up his sleeve.

It seems as though Jacob has more tricks up his sleeve. Like you said Jacob seemed to be really calm and didn't struggle when being killed. Also since it appears that everything is done for Jacob and Jacob cares about the island, I'm sure he wouldn't give up so easily to loose control of everything.

 

 

Just a possible theory it may be stupid, far fetched or whatever (but I guess that's what the whole show is about... making up your own theories)...

I was just thinking that perhaps Jacob and Esau are brothers or somehow related and have some sort of a sibling rivalry in gaining control over the island. Perhaps this might explain Christians role in the fact that he seems to have helped both causes (Being in Jacobs cabin, helping the island, also telling Locke he must die) so perhaps he's the father of them. I mean most parents aren't usually partial to their kids so perhaps he's helping them both out. Of course it doesn't make sense in terms of the age of Christian vs. the Island/Jacob, but perhaps Christian is just a puppet, much like how "Locke" is. This might explain the purpose of Christian on the island... just a thought.

Well just the names Jacob and Esau seem like a reference to the Biblical story of the two brothers.

Esau isn't his name, they confirmed it's not, but said "we like your thinking"

Somewhere i read a theory which seemed to be quite logical:

The whole "alternative universe" thing is taking place in the future, after events which we are seeing now. Maybe Jack or some other character will somehow move the island where it cannot crash the plane. That would explain why Jack looks a bit older.

The basic idea is the we just saw the actual ending of lost, those flashes we saw will turn out to be ending of lost and everything else was just a progress.

Maybe that's why Juliet talked nonsense when she was dying, her consciousness traveled to the future like Charllotes traveled to the past when she was talking about chocolate, and Juliet wasn't refering to the jughead's "it worked"

 

anyway,

I really like that idea. and now I feel a bit spoiled.

It's the Schrodinger's Cat scenario- two simultaneous possibilities, and they are showing us both. But it will be interesting to see how the two timelines are linked (or not).

 

Here's an interesting interview with the head writers if anyone wants to know where their heads are... http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/

 

Also, has everyone seen the Kimmel interview? [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKv1R66W8PM]YouTube- Damon Lindelof & Carlton Cuse Talk About LOST Premiere PART 1[/ame]

Yeah, I saw, it was hillarious. but they didn't really say anything that we dont know yet.

 

michael and walt wasn't on the plane beause it was their fate. interesting.

It's amazing how many religious refrences they're are. I don't mind them because they're not trying to promote or sell religion, like some things do.

 

Besides, I cant' tell yet whether these religious refrences are "good" or "bad".

 

:thinking:

I wish people who didn't understand Schrodinger's Cat would stop citing it.

The cat is simultaneously both alive and dead as far as the outside world is concerned until the box is opened.

 

The bomb simultaneously both worked and didn't until we're told differently.

 

Works for me, if not the grumps in the room. :P

It's wrong though, read about the Grandfather Paradox, it offers a much better explanation.

^What, the one where you go back in time and shoot your grandfather creating a reality loop?

 

I do suspect that's where they're going with it, especially since they've been saying that this season is about the larger consequences of their actions. But up until the end of the first episode at least, both realities are co-existing, which is why I dragged the poor theoretical cat into it all.

 

(Although frankly, if Schrodinger was really the one who put the cat in the box so long ago, poison or no poison the cat must surely be dead in both realities by now. :wacko:)

I just read about it and it makes more sense.

 

 

That's the paradox I was trying wrap my head around last season about detonating the bomb. If they detonated the bomb, the hatch would never be built, which would ultimately lead to the plane never crashing and there wouldn't be a need to go back in time and detonate the bomb.

 

So the idea of an alternate timeline makes sense, and that's what their heading w/

I just read about it and it makes more sense.

 

 

That's the paradox I was trying wrap my head around last season about detonating the bomb. If they detonated the bomb, the hatch would never be built, which would ultimately lead to the plane never crashing and there wouldn't be a need to go back in time and detonate the bomb.

 

So the idea of an alternate timeline makes sense, and that's what their heading w/

Yeah, there's about maybe 10 variations of traditional ways stories deal with that sort of paradox. Dual timelines are one of them.

 

Another- I think the one HA is referring to (hehee... HA. I should keep calling you that. It's a pretty good description. :P) is an endless causality loop. They detonate the bomb in the past, so they never crash on the island, so they never travel back to detonate the bomb and prevent themselves from crashing, so they crash, so they travel back and detonate the bomb... on and on ad infinitum ad nauseum.

 

Personally, the time travel stories I like the most are the ones where the causality loop eventually decays into something stable- it happens because it always happened based on choices you already made. (See Babylon 5) Though the Time Traveller's Wife (the book) is probably the most true to reality as we would experience it, as far as cause and effect are concerned.