'Something deeply wrong in society': David Cameron blames torture case on Broken Britain

[mc_squared]

'Something deeply wrong in society': David Cameron blames torture case on Broken Britain

 

 

By Jason Groves

Last updated at 9:50 AM on 23rd January 2010

 

 

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David Cameron said the Doncaster torture case was a symptom of a new 'social recession'.

In a hard-hitting speech, the Tory leader said it was not an 'isolated incident of evil' but part of a deeper malaise.

Citing other high-profile killings, Mr Cameron said something was 'going wrong' with society.

 

Enlarge Man of the people: David Cameron takes questions from members of the local community at the Sunlight Centre in Gillingham, Kent

 

'We have had rising violent crime and it's wrong to say that each of these incidents come along and somehow there is no connection to what is going wrong in the rest of our society.

 

 

 

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• Bring the torturers' parents to justice: Victim's mother vents her anger as sadistic brothers are locked up
  

 

'On each occasion, are we just going to say this is an individual case? That there aren't any links to what is going wrong in our wider society, in terms of family breakdown, in terms of drug and alcohol abuse, in terms of violent videos, in terms of many of the things that were going wrong in that particular family?'

He mentioned the deaths of of James Bulger, Baby Peter, Damilola Taylor and Garry Newlove as proof that the Doncaster case could not be written off as an isolated example of feral behaviour.

Mr Cameron said Britain was 'in danger of becoming an irresponsible society'. And he made his strongest defence yet of his policies on supporting the family and marriage, saying Britain would be a 'stronger society' if more couples married and stayed together.

His strong moral tone echoed Tony Blair's famous 1993 speech in the aftermath of the murder of toddler James Bulger in Liverpool.

 

 

 

The then shadow home secretary was credited with strengthening Labour's soft image on crime by saying that the murder underlined the need to 'teach the value of what is right and what is wrong'.

Labour sources yesterday accused Mr Cameron of 'tarring' the people of Britain by 'seizing on one absolutely horrific crime'.

 

Others within Mr Cameron's own party will point out the dangers of appearing to ape Mr Blair at the very moment the ex-PM's reputation is taking a pounding at the Iraq inquiry.

 

Mr Cameron said social issues would be as important as economic ones in the General Election. He said: 'As our economy recovers and we deal with our budget deficit, we should be asking how do we get a social recovery and how do we deal with out social deficit?'

 

The biggest problem was a lack of responsibility, with the state sending out the wrong messages to people about the need to take responsibility for their own actions and lives.

 

Court drawing showing the torture boys during their trial

 

He pointed to examples such as couples being better off if they separate, single mothers losing much of their earnings if they go to work, and schools unable to expel unruly pupils.

 

'I think we are in danger of becoming an irresponsible society and we need to make Britain a responsible society.'

 

The Tory leader said he wanted the next government to be 'the most family friendly we have ever had'.

 

Critics have accused the Tories of discriminating against single parents by offering a tax break to married couples.

 

But Mr Cameron said: 'I don't care if it's popular or not. I care whether it's right or not. It's important to say that commitment matters, that relationships matter, that marriage is a good institution and we should back it rather than undermine it.'

 

Children's Secretary Ed Balls said Mr Cameron's presentation of the Edlington case as symptomatic of a wider problem of 'broken Britain' was 'not true. The large majority of families are working hard, playing by the rules, look after their children, love them.'

[Reilly]

He pointed to examples such as couples being better off if they separate, single mothers losing much of their earnings if they go to work, and schools unable to expel unruly pupils.

 

Oh christ, does Cameron read the Mail?

 

He's always harping on about society generally, which is a smart move because he can be as vague as he wants and not actually have to put his neck out and suggest real changes.

 

Clearly these kids are fucked up, mentally insane, it's terrible what happened to those kids and to Jamie Bulger, but these are cases that arise every half decade or so. You can change society as much as you want and do everything you can to make a utopia, there will still be mentally unstable people out there.

 

It's best if the news could just report it instead of relating to how it represents a trend in society. Even Jon Snow reported it in the commercial for C4 when the story broke, asking "But does this represent a broken society?".

 

We should view it for what it is, one isolated incident which most importantly, possibly could've been prevented (As the kids were reported for similar behaviour several days beforehand) instead of un-necessarily focussing on how it represent's "broken Britain".

[mc_squared]

I reckon he has a point. British society does seem to be pretty screwed up in general.

Children aren't born "evil" like that, so where does it come from?

[Reilly]

Yes children are born "evil", it's called being mentally imbalanced and psychotic. Humans who are that mental will end up doing something horrific regardless of their environment. It wasn't just evil torture, it was also sexual abuse.

 

I agree that British society is screwed up in general, but that has absolutely nothing to do with two insane children. If anything relating the two different topics is part of the problem; only really caring about society when something dreadful happens. All that attitude can lead to are more ambiguous schemes that only appear to work in the short term.

[mc_squared]

Yes children are born "evil", it's called being mentally imbalanced and psychotic. Humans who are that mental will end up doing something horrific regardless of their environment. It wasn't just evil torture, it was also sexual abuse.

 

I agree that British society is screwed up in general, but that has absolutely nothing to do with two insane children. If anything relating the two different topics is part of the problem; only really caring about society when something dreadful happens. All that attitude can lead to are more ambiguous schemes that only appear to work in the short term.

 

Well your view appears to be that they were born insane or evil, whereas I am of the belief that this sort of behaviour can only be a product of social influences, poor upbringing and environment, which is basically what Cameron is saying.

[Cobalt]

"And he made his strongest defence yet of his policies on supporting the family and marriage, saying Britain would be a 'stronger society' if more couples married and stayed together."

 

And here, I read christian fundamentals, therefore decided to not say much. This little suggestion simply doesn't apply to every situation. If it ain't working out the stress shows and the kids can tell. They're not silly. Plus, it's their damn marriage.

 

Also I don't think kids are really born "evil" and mentally imbalanced, but then why do we have them popping pills for disabilities and conditions.

[Reilly]

To me that's an exaggeration, we don't live in a barbaric society in which what is right and what is wrong has mixed into one, but those kids didn't seem to acknowledge what they were doing was wrong. Yes I am assuming they were born insane, and of course their surroundings could have made it worse, but the thing is that we don't know anything about these kids (And legally we can't) and to assume the extreme things they have done is down to a collapse in society is over the top.

 

This is insinuating that the society we're living in is producing a widespread theme of these types of cases, it isn't, it's a rare case and should be treated that way. Cameron says it's not just an isolated incident? Well, it is! That's ridiculous.

 

You are correct in the sense that society had something to do with it, but you can say that about anything that happens. Its tedious to link this news item with society generally. It shouldn't be a story.

[Reilly]

Also I don't think kids are really born "evil" and mentally imbalanced, but then why do we have them popping pills for disabilities and conditions.

 

Like, what?! I'm beginning to feel like I'm going mental.

 

It's a persons brain we're talking about, it's a face that people are born mentally imbalanced. It's DNA, its science, its a fact! I don't really get why either of you don't understand that.

 

So you don't think people are born to grow and develop bi-polar or schizophrenia? It's mental health here, people are born with disabilities in their brain and it can completely separate them from reality.

 

I don't know what else to say, it isn't about beliefs, it's a fact. Gah. :wreck:

[Cobalt]

Rofl I never said I don't think people are born to develop these things, that actually is what I believe. They're just not born WITH the disease already affecting them. Or they might be. I don't know all mental illnesses so I couldn't really say, I mean I was apparently born with what I have but the symptoms don't show until one gets out of the babby stage.

[Tnspieler1012]

They're just not born WITH the disease already affecting them. Or they might be.

Have you decided yet?

 

I fully agree with Reilly, btw.

[Cobalt]

No, I can't, really. I don't know or understand the full extent of mental illnesses since they vary from case to case; so any point I might try to make would likely be just plain stupid.

 

/exit topic

[mc_squared]

The sad fact is though that there are clearly far too many parents out there who are clueless when it comes to parenting, and they don't instil the right values in their children, which leads to anti-social behaviour in general.

This has nothing to do with whether the parents are actually married or not, of course, but it has been proven that a stable home environment makes a huge difference.;)

[Cobalt]

As I said, traditional marriage values.

 

That actually makes me think this guy sounds like one wanting to stick to the ways of the 'good old days' but srsly it's a modern world and you can't really make one isolated case the whole basis for your argument over 'society is FAIIIIILING doom and woe'.

[mc_squared]

As I said, traditional marriage values.

 

That actually makes me think this guy sounds like one wanting to stick to the ways of the 'good old days' but srsly it's a modern world and you can't really make one isolated case the whole basis for your argument over 'society is FAIIIIILING doom and woe'.

 

It isn't actually about one incident, though. There have been far too many recent cases involving juvenile stabbings and shootings, and neighbourhoods being terrorised by gangs of youths who have no respect for the law or anyone else.

This does come from a breakdown of society.

[Cobalt]

Just because there is a higher crime rate doesn't solely prove 'society go down terlet' however.

 

I live next to the suburb with the highest crime rate in the state and people don't yelp too much about this issue. It certainly doesn't mean the problem's statewide or something because then you have the eastern side of Melbourne, which is less of A Hole because it's the wealthier side of the city. Britain is of course probably different from this but this is just a personal example.

[IMightBeWrong]

It IS about one incident. It's been proven and it's painfully obvious that things like this are newsworthy and therefore are published because it's more likely tales of this kind of nature are going to be seen by the public. However what you fail to see is that these type of attacks aren't as frequent as you believe. Just because they're published and focused upon, it gives you the impression that they occur more often than they do. Once again you prove you can't really think for yourself, or even the bigger picture. You buy into all of this stuff without actually questioning it. This kind of ignorance is just sad.

[mc_squared]

It IS about one incident. It's been proven and it's painfully obvious that things like this are newsworthy and therefore are published because it's more likely tales of this kind of nature are going to be seen by the public. However what you fail to see is that these type of attacks aren't as frequent as you believe. Just because they're published and focused upon, it gives you the impression that they occur more often than they do. Once again you prove you can't really think for yourself, or even the bigger picture. You buy into all of this stuff without actually questioning it. This kind of ignorance is just sad.

 

It could just as easily be said that the "ignorance" is actually coming from you, as you just refuse to acknowledge point-blank what's been happening in Britain over the past decade or so, with the increase in gun crime, stabbings, juvenile gangs, anti-social behaviour etc.

Of course, you are probably one of those that will continue to ignore it until it actually affects you directly, by which time it will probably be too late.

Anyway, for all anyone knows, you may not even come from Britain, Mr. "Alias".:rolleyes:

[Cobalt]

Oh really accusations of alias have nothing to do with the topic at hand, no need to go jabbing fingers everywhere you turn

[IMightBeWrong]

No, ignorance is letting the hysteria of the papers dictate how you think. Ignorance is blindly following and believing everything they say.

Having actually studied this at university and read the writings of academics whose only source of information is not the Daily Mail, you tend to see how overblown all this is. However, with you, you just seem to take everything at face value.

 

The likelihood of this type of crime actually happening is very small. When I look outside I don't see people running after each other with knives. Within a population of over 1.5 million such an occurance is relatively rare.

 

Accusations of alias have nothing to do with this of course but the only way he can detract from his baseless and feeble arguments is by trying to detract from it with the accusations. He can think what he wants, it's not like his opinion is particiularly intelligent or well reasoned.

[pickle]

-Can someone explain this article to me in stupid people terms? :lol: I'm not exactly sure what it's about. :shame:

 

Mark-He's not an alias. :(

[Electric.Candy]

-Can someone explain this article to me in stupid people terms? :lol: I'm not exactly sure what it's about. :shame:

TRY. to understand it.

[pickle]

So, something about an abusive family? :\

[Tnspieler1012]

I had to look up the incident separately., we in the states haven't heard about 'the Doncaster torture case' in our news, at least, I haven't.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/sep/03/doncaster-torture-case-brothers

[Saffire]

Okay I'm reading Reilly's posts and there are some points I agree with and some I disagree with.

 

First off, Cameron is completely wrong that the government can do anything to reduce violent crime. You can't just threaten people to be nice "or else". If someone has a violent inclination, they'll come up with some excuse to act on it. Trust me.

 

Second, children are not born violent. Unless there's a brain tumor or some insane hormonal imbalance, violence is something children LEARN. It comes from bad parenting. For some reason I can't fathom, British parents are among the worst among western democracies. They need classes or something.

[Reilly]

]First off, Cameron is completely wrong that the government can do anything to reduce violent crime. You can't just threaten people to be nice "or else". If someone has a violent inclination, they'll come up with some excuse to act on it. Trust me.

 

I agree, most people who are violent have this ignorant, animal mentality, that just can't be changed. You can send them in and out of prison, take away their family, their livelihood, you could threaten them with the death penalty, at some stage they'll just go back to what they are.

 

Second, children are not born violent. Unless there's a brain tumor or some insane hormonal imbalance, violence is something children LEARN. It comes from bad parenting. For some reason I can't fathom, British parents are among the worst among western democracies. They need classes or something.

 

Like I said, this wasn't just violence, it wasn't an attack for any gain, it was just to watch others suffer in sick ways. They may not be born violent, but certainly have a mental illness, of course every child will learn how violence works but some will become so used to it that they become desensitised. My point was that this is not just down to society and bad parenting, while there's no doubt it's a contributing factor, simply raising children with an amount of neglect or even abuse isn't going to lead to a rare case such as this. It may be convenient to lump this in with knife crimes and other forms of violence, but it isn't, it's the rare and isolated case of physical and mental torture.

 

Cameron's giving the impression that it's societies fault as in, these kids are playing too many videogames and listening to rap music, living off chicken dippers and crisps everyday, that's what caused them to do psychopathic things. Society should be something politicians and the public never stop caring about, not just when an awful news item turns up so we can just wallow in our own filth about it.

 

The news story shouldn't have been tediously linked with the issue of British society by Cameron.