dunno if anyone said this before, but even if we shut down all of our nuclear power plants (which of course would be great as long as there are alternative energy sources available), there would still be loads of old and possible dangerous reactors in most of our neighbouring countries. so even if we managed to shut down our reactors, the risk of "suffering" from a nuclear accident would still exist.

 

Good point. There could easily be another "Chernobyl" in a neighbouring country, which Germany would be powerless to prevent.

Good point. There could easily be another "Chernobyl" in a neighbouring country, which Germany would be powerless to prevent.

 

This is always the funny thing I encounter when discussing particular laws with proponents of powerful government - they claim that unless there is legal uniformity within a particular geographic area, there will be chaos and a disincentive to improve conditions.

 

But they neglect to notice that on an international level, we continue to have effective anarchy. Granted, you do have the EU (which has no real military power of its own). But countries throughout the world still manage to settle their disputes peacefully and make deals between each other.

 

In my view, the dangers of nuclear power are overblown, especially compared to other forms of energy production. But that's just my guess.

 

I still think more research should be done on Thorium nuclear energy. It is supposed to be much safer and have far less waste products. Why isn't this discussed in the media as a reasonable alternative? The "greens" in Europe can't stand the idea of humans living comfortably and guilt-free. It's like the second coming of the Catholic church!

The "greens" in Europe can't stand the idea of humans living comfortably and guilt-free. It's like the second coming of the Catholic church!

 

:stunned:

More research should be done into Nuclear Fusion.

More research should be done into Nuclear Fusion.

 

This is happening now, I believe. There's a multi-billion-dollar facility that is attempting to create a fusion reaction using high powered lasers and water. If it works, it will multiply input energy by 7X, and the only waste will be water vapor.

In the USA I heard there were many Nuclear power plants near the Mississippi River which is a bad earthquake zone. The worst earthquake in recorded USA history was on the New Madrid Falt near lots of nukes.

I am interested in nuclear fusion.

149 million kilometers - that's a safe distance for a fusion reactor - and it works great! :sunny: Yes, there are potential risks in the US as well, given the age and design of the reactors, and siting.

> I just think it's quite simply a matter of improved efficiency; we've long since realized that living comfortably and guilt-free is the way to encourage citizens to change their energy use patterns.

> For example, after properly insulating one home and outfitting it with new windows and doors, it's yearly heating fuel consumption dropped to 1/5 of it's original. Given the increased natural lighting now available in the home, the uses of compact fluorescent bulbs, and the corresponding decrease in demand for electricity to power the furnace or air conditioner, the electric bill has dropped by a dramatic amount as well. What remains? Replacing the refrigerator & T.V. with super-efficient models. All the rest are occasional use items (washer, dishwasher, dryer, toaster, etc.). It's really pretty simple to do these things, and the food stays just as fresh, the home is actually much more comfy (less drafty in winter, less stuffy in summer).. The German government could really ramp up investment & incentives in efficiency improvements and solve the immediate matter of reduced production.

The daftest thing about Germany's decision is that as a result, more energy is likely to have to be imported from France. How does France produce most of its energy? Using nuclear power plants.:dozey:

Germany would probably be better off split down the middle again. One side for the politicians/children to have fun with, and the other side for adult human beings who can handle freedom and risk.

 

The US would benefit from such a scenario, too. But it'll never happen because politicians hate seeing other people live without their petty rules.

^ Oooh, that's so black and white!

 

Anarchy would be great, if too many people weren't such ignorant asshats. To get those to understand things, you sadly need to teach them. Why not by a democratically elected government, that puts a lot of thought and common sense into its actions. :D

 

Example 1

 

I'm very happy with not having a speed limit on our Autobahnen, for example.

But when you only have a shitty slow car, how can you possibly tolerate those drivers, who literally drive their more powerful vehicles up into your neck, coercing you out of their way? That was very common and indulged behaviour. Even if slower, you sometimes want to pass others, and thus need to change to the left driveway, right? So since some people cannot control themselves, I appreciated that (after some terrible accidents) there were more severe disciplinary actions imposed on Autobahn bullying.

Since then, it's gotten much better, and you can still drive your 230 kmh if you can.

 

 

Example 2

 

My son just had sex education in school. He's 9 years, and I was very positively surprised about how the state's organs in charge of health and education try to enlighten the kids in that respect. There was an ABC book thingy and it had for example under L: Lesbians: women who love and have sex with other women, which is totally normal (same for gay). And then off to the next topic. Short, precise, enlightening.

 

This is so very very good for so many reasons!!!! There are kids of kurdish and turkish and arch-catholic polish and conservative protestant german backgrounds in that class.

A state's teacher and official books telling them, that it is utterly normal to be interested in porn and in those books showing drawings of couples not hidden under blankets but in their full nakedness, woman on top, well, and casually announcing that homosexuality is normal, that's just really, really good, imo. Because there might never be anyone to tell them, that it's ok and actually even very good to be curious about sexuality and all it's associated topics and to openly talk about it in society.

 

 

All I try to illustrate with these examples is, that I do concur that governments should only regulate as little a possible (of course!), but also as much as neccessary to provide some sort of civilised setting, for each to develop until people all get it and anarchy is really possible and working out fine.

 

By the by you are right about the philistine joylessness of many conservative greens. They do indeed seek refuge in a world of uniformed drabness of organically dyed, assymetrical linens and dodgy restrictions. But they are not the popular ones.

 

Did you grow up under the G.W. Bush era? That would explain your horror of too much (highly dodgy) administration, I guess? But I think, you should differenciate a bit more. Unless you try to provoke reflection through exaggeration.

 

Btw. I never expect anyone to read my more epic posts. :P

 

 

And to come back to the topic, I say it again, the decision to step out of nuclear energy was pretty much led on by the people, and not coerced by the government.

149 million kilometers - that's a safe distance for a fusion reactor - and it works great! :sunny: Yes, there are potential risks in the US as well, given the age and design of the reactors, and siting.

> I just think it's quite simply a matter of improved efficiency; we've long since realized that living comfortably and guilt-free is the way to encourage citizens to change their energy use patterns.

> For example, after properly insulating one home and outfitting it with new windows and doors, it's yearly heating fuel consumption dropped to 1/5 of it's original. Given the increased natural lighting now available in the home, the uses of compact fluorescent bulbs, and the corresponding decrease in demand for electricity to power the furnace or air conditioner, the electric bill has dropped by a dramatic amount as well. What remains? Replacing the refrigerator & T.V. with super-efficient models. All the rest are occasional use items (washer, dishwasher, dryer, toaster, etc.). It's really pretty simple to do these things, and the food stays just as fresh, the home is actually much more comfy (less drafty in winter, less stuffy in summer).. The German government could really ramp up investment & incentives in efficiency improvements and solve the immediate matter of reduced production.

 

Yeah, that's how I see it, too.

 

edit: I don't understand, why so many people are so scared about sustainability. The yseem to be unable to grasp the concept of it, non?

All those nonsensical stories about falling back into the middleages, technically. It's really amazing.

I heard that Switzerland shut its reactors down also, and Italy plans to do if because they are voting on it.

Yeah, that's how I see it, too.

 

edit: I don't understand, why so many people are so scared about sustainability. The yseem to be unable to grasp the concept of it, non?

All those nonsensical stories about falling back into the middleages, technically. It's really amazing.

Well, because people are living in a bubble. And the picture industry paints is a bleak one unless we continue down the same path. So I think it could be that energy companies want the impression of starvation and frostbite if we take another path, all the while knowing full well efficiency is the lion's share of the answer.

I've heard that one too - here, it was an excuse by the mining company executives to argue that we absolutely must proceed with sulfide mines everywhere, since the opponents to the mines are all "barbarians on the edge of cyberspace."

Truth is, the mining companies with their track record and sloppiness have at times acted the part of barbarians, and it is those of us who see solutions to the current resource dilemmas who are charting the course for a sustainable future. So extractive industries only want things to go one direction, and use propaganda to portray anyone who thinks otherwise as a Luddite.

 

 

I heard that Switzerland shut its reactors down also, and Italy plans to do if because they are voting on it.

Hooray! Things are moving in a positive direction, at least where governments are responsive to the will of an educated citizenry. As momentum builds, maybe we can do the same?

All we have to loose is a lot of risks, and a lot of waste.