what is it with the tea-party?

[Gautama]

this is a clip/an outtake from a documentary by some british filmmaker about sarah palin, which i thought was a sadly entertaining cause to maybe get a dispute about the tea-party-movement started.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/video/2011/sep/12/nick-broomfield-sarah-palin-you-betcha-video

 

 

there's a lot of similarities to repeated -what i, from my european point of view regarded to be strange monsense- utterings of some of you guys from the US of A.

you know who i mean, i guess.

 

could someone explain, why those of you, who get a dotty feeling when thinking of fox news, sarah palin, michele bachmann, the tea-baggers, etc., why you don't do anything against that? they are really crazy people, aren't they? white supremacists, religious fundamentalists ( they are not religious, actually), homophobes of the most vulgar kind.

 

as far as i get it, they make progress in the usa almost impossible.

but nobody of you seems to really care enough to actually step up?

 

edit: i guess i'm being a pain in the ass, but those people irritate me to the point of me developing a severe case of angst. and it's not as if that what happens in the us is utterly meaningless for the rest of this planet.

[Gautama]

?

[Reilly]

What exactly would you do as an individual if you lived in America?

[Gautama]

yeah, that is the question. i'd write readers' letters to newspapers, organise demonstrations, connect with others, collect signatures,the usual stuff. and ( trying to be :shy:) doing this in a witty, calm but deeply concerned way. i know that there are a lot of people in the usa, who are very very unhappy about this particular population group. they should get connected better.

 

i got cousins there, and they again got an uncle, which i had the 'pleasure' to meet on several occasions. he's all about guns and god, became a preacher after a damascus experience, i always end up discussing things with him. he's still an open person, not aggressive or mocking, you can talk with him. but his views are nothing short of crazy, extreme, undemocratic, unconsciously supremacist. from those encounters alone i understand that it's pretty impossible to change something. but you can still reach the intelligent ones, some of them, maybe. never stop giving evidence, that much of what they say is simply and utterly nonsensical. or to show that they would have made jesus go crazy, imo. that they are pharisees.

 

they are such a massive force in the US.

 

do you think it's naive to do those little things? i do not, you know. it makes all the difference.

 

if you care reilly, you might wanna read this. when i was about 20 and living in berlin, i was, for a couple of weeks, walking on a route to some job-place. i passed the party headquarters of the then pds, which after the fall of the wall originated from the sed (which had been the ruling party of eastern germany).

 

there was an old woman standing right next to the entrance, she stood there everytime i went along. she had a big board in front of her where she told her story of what she'd experienced in the gdr. the old-boy-network passing her by. it was a calm street in berlin, hardly anyone walking by. so she obviously didn't do it for maximum attention.

 

i was too shy then to address her, which i heavily regret today. i can't find her story through google. she stood there and showed them that they are shit. almost every day, it seemed. and utterly unnoticed by the public. she is in my top list of human heroes.

 

and that's what i think we should do, the more the better, airing our concern, our disgust, not neccessarily expecting too much though.

i've seen you doing that here on many occasions, and i like that better than people who try to avoid calamities or wallow in sarcasm (prolly thinking how smart they are).

[jenshack24]

What exactly would you do as an individual if you lived in America?

 

tbqh, i am very seriously thinking of leaving. i'd love to live in Germany or England, or just...not here. if Perry, Palin, Bachmann...if any of them win, i'm out. i just can't with the people here, if that's what we've devolved to. I can't.

[Gautama]

I can imagine that.

Have you ever considered moving to places like somewhere New England, Portland or NYC (or similar places, which I don't know of) ?

Should be easier to breathe there?

 

Are there actually any initiatives doing those things I'd do? I'm sure there must be plenty?!

[Reilly]

That's a great answer to my question but really if I was American I'd feel a bit cynical about your disbelief that they are just sitting idle like fools, and advising what you would do and what they should do, that's all very well but you aren't living there and you aren't doing anything.

 

It infuriates me as well, and not just in a 'ho-ho dem crazy right-wingers :shy:' but more in a 'THOSE MUTANT CORRUPTIVE LITTLE FUCKS ARE ACTUALLY INTENDING TO FEAR MONGER A NATION INTO PURE PARANOIA AND INSANITY TO BOLSTER MINDLESS BRAINWASHED SUPPORT THAT WILL NEVER QUESTION THEM'.

 

It does make me sick, from the politicians of course, but mainly its media like Fox News, if that isn't brainwashing I don't know what is. Every night they broadcast tedious bullshit news stories and morph them into whatever view that they feel will garner not only exclusively right wing views, but anything that promotes the type of fear that invades a persons mind. They collect these irrelevant tiny news stories and act as if it's a pandemic sweeping the nation, but tomorrow night that's forgotten, tonight it's something else, and tomorrow it'll be forgotten. And the viewer will fall for it every single night of the week.

 

But as I say it's not exclusively right wing views, as long as it attracts fear and chaos it can be anything as long as it doesn't step outside the business interests behind the news networks. It just so happens that right wing views and politicians tend to also promote this mindless nonsense, as Broomfield said in that interview, with Republicans there is no fore-thought, there's no reasoning, everything is based on emotion, instinct and the pre-disposed biases you've had ingrained into you for your whole life. As the opposing Alaskan candidate for senator said in that video, he campaigned for better roads etc., Palin campaigned that she's a Christian and enjoys hunting. That was it. And what's progressed since then? She's a soccer mom. That's it.

 

As much as it infuriates me, you said it, it's seemingly impossible to change it. I couldn't even try, I'll admit it now, I know that the ignorance would get to me very quickly, and if I didn't gain a great support very quickly (Which these types of initiatives simply dont) then I would get pissed off and give up.

 

The most annoying thing? There is no way of being charming and witty about it, the only way the right wing can take something serious is if you drill it at them, and that's just going to make you seem like your views are some form of cult. You could work your ass off for years trying to get people to understand reason and truth, and if your views actually came into prominence, you would get dismissed by some nutcase politician, and the next night you'd be on Fox news because some evidence cropped up that you were caught with a gram of coke in your pocket 15 years ago.

 

And then you're irrelevant. It's just too frustrating.

 

I don't think I'm an optimist or pessimist, but to me that's being a realist, it really is asking a lot for one person to try and start changing America. If anyone wants to try, in any way, then by no means would I think anything negative of them, but if they were to get away with having an attitude that everyone else has to get up off their ass, well they'd need to do something special.

[Gautama]

That's a great answer to my question but really if I was American I'd feel a bit cynical about your disbelief that they are just sitting idle like fools, and advising what you would do and what they should do, that's all very well but you aren't living there and you aren't doing anything.

 

Yes, you could feel that way, that bit wasn't a clever but more clumsy than smug move to get a discussion started. I traded explaining myself in full detail for a short, obviously too provocative first post. I'm sorry for that, Americans. I thought people would know me enough to understand that I'm not all too arrogant. That was maybe a wrong assumption.

 

It infuriates me as well, and not just in a 'ho-ho dem crazy right-wingers :shy:' but more in a 'THOSE MUTANT CORRUPTIVE LITTLE FUCKS ARE ACTUALLY INTENDING TO FEAR MONGER A NATION INTO PURE PARANOIA AND INSANITY TO BOLSTER MINDLESS BRAINWASHED SUPPORT THAT WILL NEVER QUESTION THEM'.

 

Is that 'ho-ho dem crazy right-wingers :shy:' -thing the way you've perceived my post? If so, let me know. I'd want to come back on that then.

Personally, I'm not convinced, that this mostly happens due to a conscious complot of the likes of Murdoch etc.

It seems like a very complex, broadly unquestioned, cerrtainly brainwashed structure of corruption, white supremacy, sect-like religiosity, and as I think most of all complacent dullness. As one woman puts it in this documentary: 'disrespect for intelligence'. And the latter is more of a right-wing phenomenon, imo. Not exclusively though, fro sure.

 

It does make me sick, from the politicians of course, but mainly its media like Fox News, if that isn't brainwashing I don't know what is. Every night they broadcast tedious bullshit news stories and morph them into whatever view that they feel will garner not only exclusively right wing views, but anything that promotes the type of fear that invades a persons mind. They collect these irrelevant tiny news stories and act as if it's a pandemic sweeping the nation, but tomorrow night that's forgotten, tonight it's something else, and tomorrow it'll be forgotten. And the viewer will fall for it every single night of the week.

 

Yes, it's nauseatingly sick.

 

But as I say it's not exclusively right wing views, as long as it attracts fear and chaos it can be anything as long as it doesn't step outside the business interests behind the news networks. It just so happens that right wing views and politicians tend to also promote this mindless nonsense, as Broomfield said in that interview, with Republicans there is no fore-thought, there's no reasoning, everything is based on emotion, instinct and the pre-disposed biases you've had ingrained into you for your whole life. As the opposing Alaskan candidate for senator said in that video, he campaigned for better roads etc., Palin campaigned that she's a Christian and enjoys hunting. That was it. And what's progressed since then? She's a soccer mom. That's it.

 

Gee, it is mostly people from the right spectrum who get cought up in all this particular scenario. But this isn't so relevant, is it? Maybe you've read some of my recent complaints about right-wing populists in other news-threads? Or where did I stress that so much in this thread that you seem to harp on about that?

 

As much as it infuriates me, you said it, it's seemingly impossible to change it. I couldn't even try, I'll admit it now, I know that the ignorance would get to me very quickly, and if I didn't gain a great support very quickly (Which these types of initiatives simply dont) then I would get pissed off and give up.

 

That's very comprehensible. Good that you admit that also, makes you look less convinced that your position is simply grounded on being realistic.

 

The most annoying thing? There is no way of being charming and witty about it, the only way the right wing can take something serious is if you drill it at them, and that's just going to make you seem like your views are some form of cult. You could work your ass off for years trying to get people to understand reason and truth, and if your views actually came into prominence, you would get dismissed by some nutcase politician, and the next night you'd be on Fox news because some evidence cropped up that you were caught with a gram of coke in your pocket 15 years ago.

 

And then you're irrelevant. It's just too frustrating.

 

There might be a way of being relatively charming about it. How do you know that there isn't? Humour helps a lot. You've read how Bachmann just stumbled on her remark that hurricane Irene was God's answer to what again? Was it the legislation of same-sex marriages in New York State? I think that was reason for much witty fun and as I've read it that cost her many sympathies.

 

I know these frustrations too well. But is that a satisfactory or sufficient reason for not trying? This can only be answered by anyone themselves. For me it's not. And by saying this, I'm not neccessarily thinking everybody who thinks it is, is a worthless ass. But at least to me it's obvious, that -the more people start to gather, there will be more publicity. If more people don't, then there's not. It's just maths or physics or whateva.

 

Btw. when I thought about what could be done reasonably, it dawned on me that too much confrontation could induce a civil war. That's a horrible risk, and I suppose, maybe many people are scared of this possibilty, which isn't too far fetched, by the rate those fucks as you called them are sometimes going.

 

 

I don't think I'm an optimist or pessimist, but to me that's being a realist, it really is asking a lot for one person to try and start changing America. If anyone wants to try, in any way, then by no means would I think anything negative of them, but if they were to get away with having an attitude that everyone else has to get up off their ass, well they'd need to do something special.

 

The way you formulate this makes it sound melodramatic indeed. (What rethorical device would that be?) Where did I ask anyone to single-handedly reach out to the tea-baggers and thus save the entire USA?

 

OK, again: I understand that I worked an arrogant feel up there. I do get hysterical about things in a SUDDEN heftiness, it's really daft. I'll def rethink this.

 

I don't see why somebody asking people to move their asses would have to do something ( i get the something bit, but the special?) special first though? Where's the ultimate logic of that?

 

Your reaction on my question is something I've gotten sometimes so far. That since it's impossible to change things all alone, it's being realistic, when deciding against any sort of effort. And that it's insolent and I'm not entitled to ask people why they don't step up for freedom or justice for their country or nature, etc. ( unless I'm doing a Superman-stunt ?) again, where's the logic of that? And I see that this mindset, which I think a majority of people sport all over the world, is one cause of the state we're in.

[Gautama]

It's a pity that my formal mistakes might have put an end to this. When I read all my entries here, I can't see that I insinuated that nobody in America does anything regarding the tea-party. I'm hardly that dumb?

A worthwhile topic anyway.

[66]

Most of us speak with our vote. This won't happen until November of next year.

 

Fortunately or unfortunately, those wackos are entitled to run and to their freedom of speech. The media chooses to cover it, and fundamentalists choose to listen.

 

Watch a few episodes of Colbert Report. Hilarious take on the madness of it all.

[Reilly]

Your response seems strangely defensive and even a little hostile, wasn't quite expecting that, most of what I wrote had nothing to do with you.

 

Is that 'ho-ho dem crazy right-wingers :shy:' -thing the way you've perceived my post? If so, let me know.

 

Nope, simply expressing that I don't just find it funny (Though it is sometimes) in a Jon Stewart kinda way, it actually makes me angry.

 

Gee, it is mostly people from the right spectrum who get cought up in all this particular scenario. But this isn't so relevant, is it? Maybe you've read some of my recent complaints about right-wing populists in other news-threads? Or where did I stress that so much in this thread that you seem to harp on about that?

 

I didn't realise I'd be getting a strict mark on relevancy as if I'm writing my fucking dissertation, and no I haven't read those other posts, and no you didn't stress anything, I was just giving a background to the way I see the situation and generally 'harping on' about my views because I thought you may be interested to read them. That won't be happening again.

 

That's very comprehensible. Good that you admit that also, makes you look less convinced that your position is simply grounded on being realistic.

 

Explain this please. I said I'd give up quickly, how is that not being realistic? What my fucks are you talking about?

 

There might be a way of being relatively charming about it. How do you know that there isn't?

 

Jesus christ- fine, perhaps there is that possibility (I thought it was implied that I don't know for 100% certain that there isn't as I haven't exactly compiled empirical evidence here), I happen to think that if anyone was to stand any chance of getting right-wingers to take them seriously and re-evaluate their values, anything that strays on a casual jokey side of things just wouldn't be taken seriously, it would be dismissed. A lot of right-wingers are two dimensional and thick skulled, if you make a witty joke about the ridiculousness of Bachmann and it wasn't 100% clear that there's an underlying issue beyond your humour then it's just a joke to them, that's all. Many Republicans don't even recognise satire.

 

I know these frustrations too well. But is that a satisfactory or sufficient reason for not trying? This can only be answered by anyone themselves. For me it's not. And by saying this, I'm not neccessarily thinking everybody who thinks it is, is a worthless ass. But at least to me it's obvious, that -the more people start to gather, there will be more publicity. If more people don't, then there's not. It's just maths or physics or whateva.

 

Btw. when I thought about what could be done reasonably, it dawned on me that too much confrontation could induce a civil war. That's a horrible risk, and I suppose, maybe many people are scared of this possibilty, which isn't too far fetched, by the rate those fucks as you called them are sometimes going.

 

Did you say I'm not convinced of myself being realistic and now you're talking about your influence possibly starting a civil war?

 

Anyway, this is the point, I don't need a sufficient reason for not trying, I don't need to give you or anyone a reason. If my or anyone elses apathy gets to you then go talk to someone about that, they will tell you that you're being unreasonable.

 

The way you formulate this makes it sound melodramatic indeed. (What rethorical device would that be?) Where did I ask anyone to single-handedly reach out to the tea-baggers and thus save the entire USA?

 

OK, again: I understand that I worked an arrogant feel up there. I do get hysterical about things in a SUDDEN heftiness, it's really daft. I'll def rethink this.

 

I don't see why somebody asking people to move their asses would have to do something ( i get the something bit, but the special?) special first though? Where's the ultimate logic of that?

 

Your reaction on my question is something I've gotten sometimes so far. That since it's impossible to change things all alone, it's being realistic, when deciding against any sort of effort. And that it's insolent and I'm not entitled to ask people why they don't step up for freedom or justice for their country or nature, etc. ( unless I'm doing a Superman-stunt ?) again, where's the logic of that? And I see that this mindset, which I think a majority of people sport all over the world, is one cause of the state we're in.

 

And this is where you just remove yourself from your argument. Not only did you ask one person to do it, you've essentially asked why EVERYONES not doing it, there's nothing melodramatic about it- this topic is just overly aspirational, clearly wrote on a whim and not well thought out. I said if someone's going to have the arrogance to tell people to get off their ass and do something then they would have to be very impressive in some way, otherwise they'd be ignored or told to fuck off.

 

Your outlook to me is almost confirming my initial hunch that you're just vaguely promoting this idea of revolution but you don't even realise what you are saying. You need to get it in your head that you don't just go "Hey why aren't all the peeps doin somethin!" and suddenly a crowd forms, you are asking each American, them personally, to go away right now and do something. Worse then this, you're asking them why they hell they haven't already done something.

 

The logic behind it: you have no right to ask anyone to do anything, especially not EXPECT them to. And as I said before that's why anyone would have to do something special to be taken seriously, I thought when you mentioned Berlin you were about to go into some story of how you at least have been pro-active towards something in the past so you have something to show for, but no it turned out to be a story about an old woman doing something and you just walked past her everyday. What an inspiration you are. lulz

 

I'm sure your country isn't perfect and I have no idea what you're doing about it (But if you are doing something you would have been perfectly entitled to mention it by now), if you're so concerned about America you can do some of what you mentioned before on the internet anyway (Thats the idea isn't it? Not just single-handedly a revolution but we all do our little bit). Are you?

 

If I seem a tad angry well yes, I am, something that gets to me is pretentious revolutionaries with nothing to really offer except sitting there going "How can people let this happen?!", well, its happening, so at least do something and stop asking pointless rhetorical questions. That attitude is oddly similar to the right-wing Conservatives in the UK right now, and David Cameron talking about 'broken Britain' and this constant bullshit about the 'Big Society', vague ideas about how people need to pull together, in reality nobody knows what the fuck he's actually talking about, especially him, but he's presented as the catalyst for change (That word is such a cliche in politics now that I'm surprised it isn't just laughed at).

 

You may say by acknowledging it you are doing your little bit and whats wrong with that? Well by acknowledging it you're actually doing fuck all in reality except pissing off me and the American people you somehow feel you have the right to suddenly boss about or patronise as to how they can be so stupid to let this happen. If you have opinions or ideas then great, to take it on to that other level and expect everyone to do as you say, that's a load of bullshit, especially when there's nothing stopping you from taking your own advice and standing up against it any way you can.

 

It looks so easy to change things from hundreds and hundreds of miles away, doesn't it?

[Gautama]

Most of us speak with our vote. This won't happen until November of next year.

 

Fortunately or unfortunately, those wackos are entitled to run and to their freedom of speech. The media chooses to cover it, and fundamentalists choose to listen.

 

Watch a few episodes of Colbert Report. Hilarious take on the madness of it all.

 

Man, this is when democracy really sucks. Let's just hope you ( and all of us) get one of the more timid republican candidates ( are there any?) for Nov. 2012.

 

Ha yes, Colbert is great!! I've watched a few now ( thanks for telling me!), and had quite a laff. I wish we had clever satirists like them here (Germany). I suppose you guys cling on their shows a lot to soothe your nerves?

[Gautama]

And Reilly, I think we have some decent misinterpretatings going on, but let's see. I will answer your post soon (in the next couple of days), would regret it, if we left it at that, and would like to stand up for my part in this. Have started writing something, but it's so long already. So, laters!

 

One thing now though, I'm actually doing things, I simply didn't know how to put it without sounding pretentious. Oh internet forums. More to that later then...

[Gautama]

Half a day later, I'm still unsure how to react to your last post, Reilly. It's an amazing piece of rage! :D

Am still working on a reply, but for now wonder if we shouldn't clear the more personal aspects of this via the visitor messages system? Hm, maybe we shouldn't.

 

Anyway, I understand what you're critisising me for, I'll go for that then.

Hope you'll take my critique also. So long.

[Gautama]

I've written several texts, but they were all prone to misinterpretation yet again, I reckoned.

 

I would rather explain the cause for my ongoing irritation with your last post via vm, if you agree. Dissecting people publicly isn't my cup of tea so much.

[Gautama]

Oh man, I'm going crazy. Just saw that debate of the different Republican candidates, and I really need to calm down. So I came here to vent my utter bewilderment (and possibly make myself ridiculous, but ugh.)

 

People booing at a soldier, because he's gay? People shouting 'let him die' when hearing from a sick guy who's got no health insurance, and none of the candidates tell them to shut it?

 

Please, take to the streets, good people of America. Make it a happy, loud, proud, colourful thing for your country. Just as when Obama rallied.

 

Just in case you wanna butcher me now for any alledged arrogance. I do like the United States. I've had great times there, funny, open, loving people, true humanists. A lot to learn from them! I sang 'this land is your land, this land is my land, from California, to the New Y.........' with them in a folk singing gathering in Massachusetts. I ate the best fucking burgers ( but also the worst :P ), had great philosophical nocturnal talks with people from all continents' origin on a beach with myriads of baby squids glowing in the deep dark sea (when you swam through them). I hiked down the Havasu Canyon in Arizona, drove down the Strip in Las Vegas with Madonna's then latest album on full blast, attended one of my best concerts in New Orleans (Eliades Ochoa) and loved the three months I lived in New York City back in 1996 so so much. And there is so much wonderful art coming from the US!!! It's a lovely country, but also with great problems, I know.

 

 

Take that crazy, vulgar homophobia. It's outrageous. Almost nothing is perfect in Germany too, but we got a gay foreign secretary ( who is a lousy foreign secratary really, but not because he's queer, for god's sake) and the gay mayor of Berlin just got reelected and celebrated that with his husband on the telly. Nobody cares about them being gay. It's just not an issue. Homophobes just don't have a noteworthy lobby anymore, fortunately.

 

If we had as many people like your fundamentalists as you have, I'd so take my anger to the street. But I'd try to make it as happy and colourful and proud a countermovement as possible. Revamp this song

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxiMrvDbq3s]Woody Guthrie- This Land Is Your Land - YouTube[/ame]

as it's hymn. A land, for black, gay, atheist, jewish, catholic, indian, transsexual, chinese, japanese, dutch, hetero, italian...oh well, you know what I mean. I know that this bears a lot of difficulties. But there are many, who give their best to make it happen anyway. They are the ones, who should take to the street.

 

Btw. my three cousins that I got in the US told me, that they are so used to this sort of crazy thinking, that they don't fully realise just how crazy it is. Sometimes it may be good, to hear somebody foreign talk about it.

 

I'm really scared I'm gonna be mistaken again, so I guess I'm too coward to log in for quite a while. Sorry for being so emo. Though emo isn't necessarily bad or ridiculous, is it?

[Gautama]

“One of the two major American political parties has been taken over by its most vicious and reckless element. The Southern racists of the old Democratic Party, defenders of lynch mobs, were a nasty bunch to be sure, but they didn’t run the national Party, nor could they win its presidential nomination for one of their own. The first Southerner nominated by Democrats since the Civil War was a champion of civil rights and of government aid to the poor. He was so hated by the Southern conservatives that they left the Democratic Party and joined the Republican, where they acquired instant influence. Their descendants are the backbone of the Tea Bagger movement. The Baggers’ rise is not due solely to their own aggressiveness, though they have plenty of that. They’ve formed an alliance with the corporations, who need footsoldiers for the class warfare they wage relentlessly. The corporations pay the Baggers to fight against their own best economic interests – fairer taxation, better health care, higher wages – and the Baggers are willing as long as they’re also allowed to harass people of the wrong race or religion or nationality or sexual inclination. They’re happily hateful.”

—

 

Arkansas Times

 

 

This very much strengthens Reilly's theory of corporate wire-pullers. I'm still sort of unable to believe that people can actually consciously be so bad or dumb.

Also: Where is Reilly, for god's sake?

[Gautama]

Oh, wait, it seems to happen, people do gather widescale all over the States now!

"Occupy Wall Steet"/Chicago"/together"... etc. Wow, that's gonna get interesting.

Hope it won't stop soon and stays peaceful.

Good luck. :heart:

[Saffire]

The US is going downhill so fast, it's fascinating to watch.

 

I was just in Europe recently, I went to Denmark, Germany, Austria, Liechtenstein, Switzerland, and the Netherlands. I felt safer and more free in all of these places than I do in the US (where I currently live).

 

We have a culture that is preoccupied with war, police, troops, and religion. We are deeply indebted and our government prints money to stay solvent. It's only a short time before the system collapses, and I don't want to be here when it happens.

[para-para-parrotdies]

I felt safer and more free in all of these places than I do in the US (where I currently live).

 

......where on earth do you live? I'd much rather be in the United States than any of the places you mentioned - especially given the fact that the eurozone is on the verge of complete collapse.

[Saffire]

I live in South Carolina, in a city with high crime and corrupt police.

 

The Euro will collapse, but the dollar will also collapse. The main difference is the Eurozone countries (some of them, like Germany) are in MUCH better fiscal shape than the US is. Germany already has many good manufacturing jobs and they export a lot. Liechtenstein and Switzerland use the Swiss Franc, so they're relatively safe. Denmark uses the Krone.

 

When the US dollar collapses, we'll see a dramatic rise in poverty here. The price of food, gasoline, clothes, and all the basic necessities of life will skyrocket. And there will be violence.

[Gautama]

Oh mang, Saffire. Hasn't the trip to Europe changed your views a bit? :P

[Saffire]

Haha yeah, to a degree. I think my opinion of Germany went up. But for the most part I knew Europe has some major advantages over the US:

 

1. Europeans aren't obsessed with religion like Americans are. Sure, there are a lot of Catholics who wet their pants when they see the Pope scuttle around waving his hand. But that's basically harmless compared to the influence evangelical Christianity has on American politics.

 

2. Europeans aren't obsessed with police and troops like Americans are. Maybe this is because of the World Wars. But the entire time I was in Copenhagen (4 days) I only saw two police. And in Berlin, I don't ever recall seeing one. The most police I saw was in Friedberg, Germany while the Pope was there.

 

3. Europe is generally less violent than America. I don't think this has to do with gun laws, I just think it's a cultural thing. Americans are saturated in a culture that glorifies violence, and men here are terrified of being called "gay" so they act hypermasculine to make up for it. European men don't have these same hangups.

[the_gloaming09]

In other words... Europeans are much more immature while Americans are still struggling with adolescence. :lol: :|

[Saffire]

Well yeah, I just feel like Europeans are treated with more respect by their governments. A great example of this is the airports. The airport in Denmark was a pleasure to pass through. I was treated kindly and everyone was very helpful. The airport in the US was hellish. Dozens of highly-paid thugs bossing people around, telling them to take their shoes and belts off, stand in a scanner, throw away all their liquids, questioning you about where you're going, who you're meeting, what you're doing. Not allowed to use your cell phone here, not allowed to take pictures there. Don't stand in one place too long. They even had one guy whose only job was to stand around telling people to smile and be happy. You know you're in a shitty situation when they actually have to TELL you to be happy.