Worldwide demo for a BETTER WORLD Oct. 15th 2011 aka this might be the start of something wonderful

[Gautama]

It's not nothing to me and some other persons. Could you respect that?

 

You think it's stupid, to take topics to the street, I don't.

 

The Americans seem to have been able to forgive me my emo outbreak, you know. I've said I'm sorry, they seem to have accepted that. :nice:

 

Yeah, let's do something is good in my book. Even just let's try to do something in order to eventually come up with something meaningful.

 

Your sentences: "But it is totally vague and meaningless, no surprises Gautama is such a fan." " ...it's more vague crap, with nothing behind it." Are you trying to be facetious?. (*) What's more important: It's totally vague and meaningless to you. There are a quite a few other people meeting up next saturday, and many people already dicuss about this on the internet, people who are fed up with being angry about how things are so wrong, yes, they want to do something, they don't know what it is yet, but they want to try to find ways to change that and they want to talk about exactly that. They don't longer want to put up with corruption, non-transparent financial politics, headless plundering of nature, utterly respectless distribution of whatever goods... They would like to start acting mature and respectful. We try to act responsible, we act up, we move our asses into the cold october day, we tell the world, that we are fed up with all the nonsense, and we talk about how to change it. We put effort into that and care, and love for our planet and our fellow human beings.

 

You seem to belittle that, imo. You again state to be factual. I suppose we both more or less see the facts of how things are not OK in this world, so in this regard we are factual. But to decide try doing something against it or decide not doing something against that, how can you measure that by the grade of being factual ? It's simply our respective way of dealing with those facts.

 

Cut:

Take Eastern Germany. People started meeting and took their causes to the street. They were lucky, because time was on their side, the eastern block had been rotten to a point of no return, and there was Gorbachev in the Kreml and what not.. Unlike when people tried to rise up against coercion in the Prague Spring.

 

Maybe time is on our side now. Maybe it isn't yet. You can have a laugh, when things get violent on saturday or when there won't be much coverage in the media.

 

You are being reasonable by not trying doing something against the mess, in your opinion, and judging how others try to do something is too easy from that position.

 

From reading this thread you see that there are at least three guys here, who don't find those demonstrations totally pointless yet. I guess it's safe to say, that there are some more on this board. And there are many who see it more like you. So you and I represent two ways of how to deal with the mess we're in in the world. You prefer yours, I prefer mine. Can we leave it at that?

 

 

(*) And again, there's more I could write about my irritation here, but I'd prefer to do so via vm.

[Gautama]

Apocalypse now!

 

What to do! Idiots from 82 countries and 951 cities on the streets for pointless crap on saturday. Join in the uprising of the morons. :blush:

 

Sorry, that's a cheap joke, but for once I couldn't help it. Because the above annoyed me quite a lot.

 

http://15october.net/

[Saffire]

Well the solutions are always things like: "Higher taxes for the rich." and "More regulations for the banks."

 

It's the same old story that's been looping for the last 30 years. That's why people don't take these things seriously.

[nancyk58]

WORLDWIDE DEMONSTRATIONS ON SATURDAY 15 OCTOBER 2011

 

Article from Danish DR1: Today, there was a demonstration at Copenhagen's City Hall Square organized by a group called "Occupy Denmark". The demonstration started officially at 3pm with around 200 participants. Later many more arrived to participate in the demonstration.

 

The demonstrators want to get rid of the financial and social inequality around the world, and their hope is to achieve a more equal distribution of the world goods.

 

Currently demonstrations are ongoing in several European cities such as London, Frankfurt and Rome.

 

In ROME an enormous demonstration developed in a violent direction as demonstrators began to smash windows and set fire to cars. Later some of the demonstrators set fire to a building very close to the Italian Ministry of Defence. Flames came out of the windows and up through the roof - according to AFP.

 

According to the Italian news agency ANSA, a group of demonstrators had forced their way into some of the Defence Ministry's offices and ravaged them. The police used teargas and water cannons to disperse the demonstrators - according to several media. /ritzau / AP

 

Swedish SVT text: According to the Italian police, a group of masked demonstrators were behind the violent activities in Rome.

 

There were at least 2,000 participants in a demonstration in London's financial district. There were also demonstrations in Frankfurt and Stockholm. In Stockholm there were at least a few hundred participants in today's demonstration.

 

TV2 News (at 18pm) mentioned the demonstrations in Europe and elsewhere i.a. in Tokyo and Australia under the headline: PROTESTS AGAINST CAPITALISM. The demonstrators are protesting against capitalism, against GREED in the financial sector.

 

There are demonstrations in 82 countries.

 

A Danish protester admitted that it was a weakness that the movement had not come up with an alternative to the current conducted politics.

 

 

According to German ZDF text there were demonstrations in many German cities today - i.a. in Berlin and in Germany's financial capital city, Frankfurt - with around 1,000 - 1,500 participants in each demonstration.

[Gautama]

^ Thank you Nancy!

 

It's not weakness, that there are no alternatives yet, though. Quite the contrary, that's the special appeal, and has been from the start of OWS. Solutions are work in progress and everybody on this planet should contribute. In thought, in prayer of whatever kind, with music, with poems, theories, each in a way he or she can.

 

This was a good day. I loved most of what I've seen, I talked with many many people. There is a deep wish for change, for sustainability, for maturing. People from all sorts of backgrounds, which was enjoyable. Some people had a very negative, aggressive tone (they would totally kill the 1 %, yelled 'you fucking assholes' up to the tower of the european central bank, in front of which the gathering took place) But luckily, they were a small minority, and most people listened politely (you didn't wanna make them even more angry), but moved on stressing that there now would have to be a forum, where people start to work on solutions. There are about 30 or so campers now in the little park, right underneath the ECB, they start this work now, are linked to the internet, and well, they camp and talk and write and discuss. I talked to a handful of them, and they were of the utterly nice and positive sort.

The vast majority agreed that this grassroots-movement needs to get more followers, and shouldn't stop until this world REALLY has become much much fairer, more enjoyable, safe and just.

 

Saffire: Global here means 'Think Global, Act Local'. That's OK, innit?

 

I'm leaving this site, (really, really, really, really this time :P) I'm off to other pastures. I will miss people, namely Sara, Ivet, some of the other Germans, this one person who had a super boring summer in Constantinople, and this one person who also thinks that raspberries are awesome! And oh yeah, many of the fans of my second fav band!

Also thanks to the admin and family and moderators, it's such an interesting site, it had me addicted for over two years. One pain in the ass less again now! :P

 

And Reilly, I think you maybe need a good fat hug from Chuck Kottke, he's so much better with words and is a man, who's brain seems to tick a hellish lot like mine. He might be able to explain things to you, less emo and incoherent than I, which are subliminally connected to what's happening with the occupying business. It's about people waking up, find out who they really are. Be daring and go ask him about it, and confront yourself with some concepts which you apparently don't understand yet. Just imho.

 

Bye. :)

[nancyk58]

Bye GAUTAMA and take good care of yourself. And thanks for your commitment and energy.

 

I hope that this is not the very last thing we hear from you.

[Cobalt]

Nooo </3

 

I went yesterday, and am staying the night tonight in our local one. It's a bit vague in general because each local gathering also deals with local issues going on eg the one I was talking about was also about refugees (which is a current issue specific to our area)

 

Really interesting to go to, everyone had their own ideas of fixing it, some didn't of course but just wanted to show their support.

 

IIRC some American signs included "End the Fed" sort of things Saffire and here too

[Reilly]

It's not nothing to me and some other persons. Could you respect that?

 

You think it's stupid, to take topics to the street, I don't.

 

The Americans seem to have been able to forgive me my emo outbreak, you know. I've said I'm sorry, they seem to have accepted that. :nice:

 

Yeah, let's do something is good in my book. Even just let's try to do something in order to eventually come up with something meaningful.

 

Your sentences: "But it is totally vague and meaningless, no surprises Gautama is such a fan." " ...it's more vague crap, with nothing behind it." Are you trying to be facetious?. (*) What's more important: It's totally vague and meaningless to you. There are a quite a few other people meeting up next saturday, and many people already dicuss about this on the internet, people who are fed up with being angry about how things are so wrong, yes, they want to do something, they don't know what it is yet, but they want to try to find ways to change that and they want to talk about exactly that. They don't longer want to put up with corruption, non-transparent financial politics, headless plundering of nature, utterly respectless distribution of whatever goods... They would like to start acting mature and respectful. We try to act responsible, we act up, we move our asses into the cold october day, we tell the world, that we are fed up with all the nonsense, and we talk about how to change it. We put effort into that and care, and love for our planet and our fellow human beings.

 

You seem to belittle that, imo. You again state to be factual. I suppose we both more or less see the facts of how things are not OK in this world, so in this regard we are factual. But to decide try doing something against it or decide not doing something against that, how can you measure that by the grade of being factual ? It's simply our respective way of dealing with those facts.

 

Cut:

Take Eastern Germany. People started meeting and took their causes to the street. They were lucky, because time was on their side, the eastern block had been rotten to a point of no return, and there was Gorbachev in the Kreml and what not.. Unlike when people tried to rise up against coercion in the Prague Spring.

 

Maybe time is on our side now. Maybe it isn't yet. You can have a laugh, when things get violent on saturday or when there won't be much coverage in the media.

 

You are being reasonable by not trying doing something against the mess, in your opinion, and judging how others try to do something is too easy from that position.

 

From reading this thread you see that there are at least three guys here, who don't find those demonstrations totally pointless yet. I guess it's safe to say, that there are some more on this board. And there are many who see it more like you. So you and I represent two ways of how to deal with the mess we're in in the world. You prefer yours, I prefer mine. Can we leave it at that?

 

 

(*) And again, there's more I could write about my irritation here, but I'd prefer to do so via vm.

 

Theres MORE you could've written?! I don't even know what to respond to that drivel with. I meant I was being 'factual' in the context that I wasn't exactly intending to criticise you (Thats just an added bonus), I was simply pointing out how pointless this is and it makes sense you like it.

 

Your example of East Germany was (You guessed it) pointless as that was an actual issue, there wasn't a worldwide meeting to stop BAD STUFF, because it takes a concentration and focus on an issue to even think of changing it.

 

Apocalypse now!

 

What to do! Idiots from 82 countries and 951 cities on the streets for pointless crap on saturday. Join in the uprising of the morons. :blush:

 

Sorry, that's a cheap joke, but for once I couldn't help it. Because the above annoyed me quite a lot.

 

http://15october.net/

 

That was a joke?

 

And Reilly, I think you maybe need a good fat hug from Chuck Kottke, he's so much better with words and is a man, who's brain seems to tick a hellish lot like mine. He might be able to explain things to you, less emo and incoherent than I, which are subliminally connected to what's happening with the occupying business. It's about people waking up, find out who they really are. Be daring and go ask him about it, and confront yourself with some concepts which you apparently don't understand yet. Just imho.

 

What the fuck? I think Chucks great, but I wouldn't describe his way of writing brilliant, unless you think mine is THAT shit. Intelligent and informed however, he definitely is, but this is the first time you've mentioned my lack of understanding of anything, ever, so if you had a problem with concepts I apparently don't understand I'm surprised you never brought them up previously.

 

I'm sorry but I won't "Be daring" and go ask Chuck anything, you haven't given me any reason to. It's really sad how now you're just being self-deprecating, and somehow I'm definitely wrong for some presumably great reason but poor little you can't muster up the words to explain why. Now that is far more annoying then anything I've said to you.

[chuck kottke]

I believe there are times when demonstrating in the name of justice and demonstrating against many injustices can and does change the world. This is one of those times. We all sense that a train of crimes and abuses has been committed on a grand scale, and great harm done to many descent people with no corrective action taken, no reform undertaken, and barely even the tacit acknowledgment of such a problem in the general media or by most of those in office. It feels as though a train wreck just happened, and everyone is stepping around, over, and under the wreckage, unable to look at or touch the still hot boiler, while the occupants suffer in the collided cars down the tracks. Finally, there is acknowledgment by those not caught up in the machine, putting out pointers to what needs to be made clear for all to see, and now a coming together of all who value justice, fairness, and honesty, to wake up the sleep walking world all around us, for while many see, many are still lost and dazed in the fog.

And the issues are all interconnected - as protecting the commons is ignored, so are basic human rights and matters of fair conduct; the nature of the financial system currently in control of the world is so in need of reform and correction that it can no longer be ignored, it is the elephant in the room.

Robert Reich is concerned that this economic downturn may persist, with high unemployment lingering for a decade or more.

And unless the underlying defects with the tracks and layout corrected, train derailments will persist, the slowness of the speed of the engine hampered by many factors which no patch on the boiler alone can correct.

One thing is certain, we can no longer afford to allow the gamblers to run the casino, and any who have gambled away the savings and stability of others need to be held accountable. Sound financial policy is best prepared and enacted by a well informed government with true checks and balances, where a firewall has been erected between commerce and government.

Achieving a government responsive to the will of the citizens is one key element on the path to reform. The undue influence of a powerful few with little concern for long-term social stability or human equity have been so rigging the system in their favor, and so endangering the stability of the financial systems of the world, it is little wonder this has happened.

So in order to set right the process that selects representation which then oversees markets and incorporates the concerns of all stakeholders as well as deep and pressing ecological concerns, we must start from the start.

A combination of honest education and honest elections processes must take place to ensure we achieve stable and equitable financial markets. Plus those who are guilty need to be held accountable, and the enormous income disparities addressed. Without a growing middle, democracy is in trouble; it is in everyone's best interest to improve the economic strength of each nation and the world, and protesting where the problem is puts the spotlight on those responsible for the problem, then the next step is fixing the problem by fixing the underlying causes.

[nancyk58]

^ :clap: :clap: You are very good at formulating and explaining the issues and what is needed. :thumbsup:

[Gautama]

Oh yes Chuck, thanks a lot! =)

 

And thanks to you Nancy, have a good life, will ya!!

 

I'm adding some of the many links to different sites involved in this movement, so everybody can inform themselves. It's now important to keep this running, so everybody, read about it, follow what's happening. Talk about it with others, attend an event or maybe even join a camp, as Cobalt has. Help formulate demands. Think about our planet, what is wrong, what needs to be changed, what you could do locally to make it better.

 

AMERICA:

Argentina:http://www.facebook.com/occupyargentina

Mexico: ?

Brazil: http://www.facebook.com/OccupyBrazil

Uruguay:?

Chile:http://twitter.com/#!/inwpress/status/125486612481196032/photo/1

Venezuela:? :(

Canada:http://www.facebook.com/OccupyCanada?sk=info

USA: http://occupywallst.org

http://occupyaustin.org/resources (Austin, Texas)

http://occupydenver.org/

http://occupychi.org/ (Chicago)

...check for one near you....

http://twitter.com/#!/Occupy_USA

 

 

AFRICA:

generally:

South Africa:http://www.facebook.com/OccupySouthAfrica

 

 

ASIA:

Malaysia: http://www.meetup.com/occupytogether/Kuala-Lumpur-MY/389152/

India:?

China: there was something in HongKong, but hardly in the motherland itself

Turkey: http://www.meetup.com/occupytogether/Istanbul-TR/388992/?a=bn5_l1

etc.pp.

 

OCEANIA:

New Zealand: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Wellington-Nz/253279161382607

Australia: http://occupymelbourne.org/

http://www.occupysydney.org/

http://occupyperth.org/2011/10/15th-october-action/

check out for all those tiny islands nobody has ever heard of...

 

 

EUROPE:

Poland: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Poland/244792178900666

Portugal: http://portuguese-american-journal.com/occupy-portuguese-join-the-movement-portugal/

Turkey again: http://www.meetup.com/occupytogether/Istanbul-TR/388992/?a=bn5_l1

Great Britain: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Britain/182871245120997

http://occupylondon.org.uk/?p=40

France: http://www.facebook.com/OccupyFrance

Estonia: http://www.facebook.com/pages/OCCUPY-tAlLiNn-estonia/272640526090060

Ireland: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Ireland/184536254958131

Italy: http://occupyitaly.tumblr.com/ peaceful...

Spain: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Spain/258039744238521

Germany: http://occupyreichstag.blogsport.de/

http://www.occupyfrankfurt.de/doku.php

...and again...check the web for your country and the city near you.

 

 

This shouldn't stop. It needs to spread further. Let's shake our planet a bit and make it, what it ought to be. :wideeyed:

So, this was it now. I'm off to contribute to the German section of the think tanks, and help get the different countries' movements connected.

 

You guys could go on post your ideas, plans, wishes in this thread. Chuck has started that, you could be the next. Do it! Ciao.

[chuck kottke]

Oh wow, I had some idea that this was global, but Gautama, that is an incredible number of links!! Keep up the good works, you're an angel for doing so.:angel:

"Think about our planet, what is wrong, what needs to be changed, what you could do locally to make it better."

Yes, to put things into perspective is a good thing to keep in mind, I agree wholeheartedly - for we are all floating along on this planet in space, here is our spaceship earth, best we keep it a living planet, a healthy home. I think it's only when some of the inhabitants get the idea that they are above the rest, or use the excesses of their selfish desires to gain at the expense of others, for short term gain and sometimes out of fear (the horse race, so many racing horses too busy racing to ponder why or what is better for all), or simply hyper-competitiveness run amok, then we begin to loose the social contracts between us, we have seen the results of unchecked behaviors and blind faith in market forces. It's a realization even those on the market streets are aware of, but when the game's afoot, few can resist the pull or forge a new path. It's an enormous ship to steer, and the rudder takes the leverage of a mass movement to turn things around. Which is happening, and I am excited to see it!!!

So what to demand? What demands would be right, fair, effective, lasting, and encompass a broad range of concerns?

For that we need to delve into human nature, into social behaviors and current modes of organizing ourselves and our understanding of these underpinnings of human societies today... and then formulate better paths to take, more natural ways of shaping the progress of human interactions so as to achieve a more harmonious existence.

Market forces motivate, can be healthy and beneficial to society and aren't going away any time soon, so the question in my mind is how to ensure fairness between all stakeholders and incorporate long-term as well as short-term effects into the markets so that the bridge to the future is strengthened as each new span is added. Their interactions with the environment, their societal impacts, ensuring that they function well to improve the overall wellness of we citizens as well as rewarding and motivating those with the better planning and cooperative skills, better efforts and designs - we must now include all that which has been left out of the market systems for them to function for the health and benefit of society and the planet's ecology.

Checks and Balances, James Madison's application of this to government, must extend to markets as well.

Demands to be made for the correcting of behaviors, setting forth a better path, that is the matter at hand. For those in power yield only to great pressure, and even then some only yield when removed from power and are replaced by better representatives. Given the pressure, what needs to be done?

What builds awareness is first experiencing what another deals with in life, a man or woman who has not felt a hot fire all day long cannot sense what a worker in a steel mill goes through, only experiences can allow one to relate. It is in part this disconnect that allows the insurance business man to think in terms of simply maximizing profits by upping premiums and dropping coverage after a claim, but the ability to empathize can be regained after just one visit to a free clinic, or one week spent working in a mill.

Yet not everyone can have these experiences, but the broad majority of us all toil in some capacity at some time in our lives, and can set up rules for fair conduct, and ensure oversight of businesses to prevent and disincentivise cold actions motivated by pure greed and the game mentality.

So I believe we need to demand that checks and balances to the markets be restored, and better market practices, as well as better forms of business, be established and promoted.

Essential to that is moving the center of understanding to where it needs to be, towards investing in businesses that uphold a higher standard, towards more worker-owned businesses and cooperatives. Even family owned enterprises can be good for all involved, if the goal of the business is improving the wellness of workers and owners, incorporates long-term thinking and planning, and considers all stakeholders in the decisions being made.

To make these the more common types of businesses, we need to elect representatives to office who work for us & promote the better businesses, not who pretend to and then work for those who undermine the values and social contracts we hold dear.

This is true of Wall Street banks as well - the better, more ethical practices need to be rewarded, the unethical practices prevented and law breakers prosecuted when they do break the law. But not much in the way of prosecution went on, so-called reforms made by the very rule breakers who imploded the markets.

Which is why oversight must come from elected representatives accountable to we the people. And only when the excesses of campaign cash from a minority of wealthy donors is removed will we see a cleaning up of the elections. One approach is to open up the airwaves for all candidates equally so, as a place of public forum and discussion. Another is to declare that money isn't speech, and corporations aren't people. A third is to ensure that elected officials do not take lobbying jobs of any sort once out of office. No more delayed bribery, end the quid pro quos. A fourth is to demand that wealthy plutocrats diversify their investments, a new more strict set of laws to prevent the monopolization of medias, so that the Murdochs and Berlisconis and Kochs of the world can't use their powerful media empires to sway elections and distract the public from knowing the truth about important subject matters. To do that takes a level field for candidates to run on, candidates who are beholden to we citizens, who can set down fair rules of conduct, who can restore those checks and balances and extend them to the markets and beyond. Oversight and transparency is a blessing for us all.

[nancyk58]

^ So well formulated. :thumbsup:

[Wyrd]

:|

 

They have demonstrations in the Netherlands as well. Journalists asked random people in there what they were demonstrating for/against. All answered with stuff like:

"We don't want to loose our jobs"

"For world peace"

"For equal human rights! Black and white, it's the same"

"Bad economy!"

"We shouldn't lend any money to Greece!"

"Just, just, I am mad at the world!"

I wonder if most of them actually know what these protests were/are supposed to be about.

[chuck kottke]

:|

 

They have demonstrations in the Netherlands as well. Journalists asked random people in there what they were demonstrating for/against. All answered with stuff like:

"We don't want to loose our jobs"

"For world peace"

"For equal human rights! Black and white, it's the same"

"Bad economy!"

"We shouldn't lend any money to Greece!"

"Just, just, I am mad at the world!"

I wonder if most of them actually know what these protests were/are supposed to be about.

> Well, I think they are feeling the effects and want to make a statement, but don't know where the problems originate or what are the solutions. Not that it was all that different at the start of the American revolution for instance - many unemployed people were milling about on the streets, upset from the lack of work or high prices of goods (tea for instance), a sense of inequity, searching for someone to give them a sense of why things are messed up and how to solve the problems.

Sounds like the movement needs some coordination and speakers who can sum up the reasons why and how to press for change.:thinking:;)

Right now the global multi-national corporations are so large, many have greater economic power than most countries, and will send work to the place where labor laws are nill and the workers will work the cheapest. That's one concern, we've already seen the demise of our manufacturing sector here, so be on the lookout for that danger. International Unions seem like one great antidote to what ails us on that front. Worker-owned companies are another solution to that threat. How's the unemployment rate in the Netherlands?

But overarching all this are the plutocrats, the super-rich who have permitted the economic downturn and resist helping average citizens. Need a bailout? Having a financial crisis? Only if you're worth a few million or billion. That's when the wealthy clam up, help only themselves, and we need to press for reform in the investment and banking sector globally to ensure proper functioning of banks and remove the pull of political and ideological tinkering from the process. Oversight by sound financial regulation is one thing, political influence and risky gamesmanship is another.

Equal rights is essential, part of the problem as well - during economic downturns, there's always blame put on minorities and on immigrants for what's gone wrong, for fear of job losses. We need to move past that and focus on the real reasons for the economic failings, for allowing bubbles to form so large in the first place. Protections to ensure that minorities are not hard hit by economic train wrecks need to be put in place.

For world peace - well, that's part of it as well. All the money poured into wars, all that could have been helping improve the economy in a real sense, and improve people's lives everywhere. Plus all the disruption caused, the suffering resulting is immense and unnecessary. The reason so many countries are unstable is because of poor economic conditions, and that has much to do with policies in the wealthier nations which do not share fairly the largess of the wealth generated in the world. Resources on the cheap, ecological devastation and resource poverty in the places where it all comes from. So peace requires dignity, good paying jobs, financial stability and growth, an end to top-heavy regimes and corporate greed.

It is all connected, we are all connected. It begins with honest government, with understanding and with action.

[Gautama]

[chuck kottke]

:laugh3: How true that is! From the Canadian tar sands strip mining & the cutting of the boreal forest , to the huge climate change & mountaintop removal impacts coming from big coal here, to the deforesting of the Amazonian rain forest Future threats to the Amazon rainforest , those bent on money and power over ethical business practices and environmentally sound businesses need to be checked.

What did congressman Mike Gravel have to say? "the problem is greed, plain and simple."

[Gautama]

^ It's all so blatantly primitive, non?

 

Time for some Gandhi, the Occupy movement is starting to face real trouble, which starts phase three.

This could take long and get very nasty. Please, please not. I hope the protesters succeed in staying peaceful at all costs.

 

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”

[Gautama]

“[F]or the first time, people around the world are not identifying and organising themselves along national or religious lines, but rather in terms of a global consciousness and demands for a peaceful life, a sustainable future, economic justice and basic democracy. Their enemy is a global “corporatocracy”(and our old, passive selves, imo) that has purchased governments and legislatures, created its own armed enforcers, engaged in systemic economic fraud, and plundered treasuries and ecosystems.”

— Naomi Wolf

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

http://takethesquare.net/2011/07/31/quick-guide-on-group-dynamics-in-peoples-assemblies/

 

This is how you hold 'general assemblies'. They are the actual heart of all what is referred to as Occupy Wall Street/Melbourne/London/whatevver/together/thePlanet. It's a way to act out direct democracy. It can be adjusted to the respective communities'/group's needs. In families, schools, soccer clubs, villages, cities, countries, planets. It's in progress. If you don't like what you see in the news about your local occupy group, start to take responsibility for yourself and put your ideas into the process. It can be exhausting (because you'll learn a lot about how tangled up in conspiracy theories many people are, for example), but it's exhausting for something highly constructive.

 

I suppose Emma/Cobalt could share some experiences about how this works in practise.

 

Kudos to the Spanish People for developing this procedure this spring! A tool to find maximum consensus, based on common sense of a collective of individuals. It's very fascinating, it's just a starter set, it'll get easier with time.

[Gautama]

Q+A With Noam Chomsky at Occupy Boston

 

Q: What about the ruling class in America? How likely is it that they’ll have an open fascist system here?

Chomsky: I think it’s very unlikely frankly. They don’t have the force. About a century ago, in the freest countries in the world, Britain and the United Sates at the time, the dominant classes came to understand that they can’t control the population by force any longer. Too much freedom had been won by struggles like these, and they realized it. It’s discussed in their literature. They recognize that they’re going to have to shift their tactics to control of attitudes and beliefs instead of just the cudgel. It can’t do what it used to do. You have to control attitudes and beliefs. In fact that’s when the public relations industry began. It began in the United States and England. The free countries where you had to control beliefs and attitudes, to induce consumerism, to induce passivity, apathy and distraction. It’s a barrier, but it’s a lot easier to overcome than torture and the Gestapo. I don’t think the circumstances are any longer there to institute anything like what we call fascism.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

The one thing, that I don't support within the occupy-movement is, that I still don't think that there was/is some conspirational plan of a few to supress the masses. They do, that is clear, but not entirely intentional.

I know that, because I know people from the so called 1%. Of course there are some sarcastic, sociopathic assholes, who really don't care about anything at all but their own little family, and sadly they don't get isolated by the others, because, you know, hardly anyone within those circles is aware of what they are doing, about the consequences. And the height of your income is far more important than ethics, whoohoo, they will make fun of you when you mention ethics, they will tell you to grow up already, to the real world. Uhm, ok.

 

This is what they will have to be told now, as nice as possible, that they have to grow up already.

 

But the same goes out to the 99%, imo. We buy all that shit, we spend our time watching bad tv shows or doing silly things on the internet. We do work under sociopaths and don't voice up, because we need the money, for our kids, for food and a home, and our pensions and healthcare. We bought into the angst of failing in society, which is very real, but only as long as everybody buys into it. The only chance we ever had is waking up from that, and say no. That's what is happening now.

And this one really could bring it all down.

 

 

One example for doing something in your every day life: When any of you wonder, what you could do, wherever you are, please stop buying chinese products. And spread the word. That is also very important. We consumers would have such immense political power, if only we would work together.

Now China, I guess I don't have to tell anyone what the chinese government is capable of doing.

If you don't actually support their efforts to supress human rights, you could start not buying their stuff.

Or would you have bought german products during WW II, knowing of how they murdered 6 mio. people factory-style? Why do we buy chinese stuff then. That's why us 99% aren't so innocent in all our mess, the not wanting to see the interdependence of consuming, environmental and human exploitation.

 

I'm not gonna destroy your day by mentioning what they do to people ( their own rebels, the Uighurs, the Tibetans, who alone need all our support so much in this) in China. But understand, that those peoples' days are destroyed so mercilessly also because we don't want see it and help them. But it's happening anyway, the very moment you are reading this. And you can find out for yourselves, if you care. Or ask me for sites, to get information on Tibet.

Think about it, please.

 

Please educate yourselves about other peoples' realities. It IS linked to our lives. If more of us would care and would want to help, then help might actually become possible.

 

We are all responsible. Not for what was done in the past, but what we do about it, and how we build our future.

[chuck kottke]

That's very interesting Mike, what Noam Chomsky has to say - thanks for putting that up here.

Purchasing is voting with money, and it makes a huge difference, I support ethical consumer choices; but equally, since we cannot see all that is happening elsewhere, it is up to us to change our system to ensure more honest representation becomes the norm, then regulation and policy that is rational and ethically-based generally follows.

I haven't the time to test to see if there's lead in all the products I buy, or to know the subtle nuances of where it's all made, where the sub-components are made, how the workers are treated, what sort of wealth is being created and in who's hands; generally speaking though, boycotting on a personal basis does make a difference when profits begin to suffer from it, but even so, if elected officials were beholden to our interests, the legislation and policies would reflect that.

Which is why I so strongly advocate for open access to the airwaves for candidates, an end to the money game running politics. For we can work from all directions to solve the problem - through better purchasing choices, better educated minds, a greater awareness of our interconnectedness, and through oversight by selecting honest representation.