facelesslegend Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 I posted this in the main section but i dont think it was the right place now that im looking around but Hey i just have been frustrated lately, im confident with guitar and singing, im a rythm player and sing as well but i feel my songs are less than great because of the way im singing words, the vocal rythm, i wonder for you guys out their how you go about coming up with vocal rythms or know any tips. I always wonder how people like Chris Martin and Thom Yorke do it but i know their is no set formula, any help would be greatly appreciated! thanks alot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reilly Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 Everyone has their way of re-doing, re-cycling, and re-cording, and their all fine methods but sometimes they just dont work. Music is weird, and odd, you cant just write a great song by trying harder than before, you either get it or you dont, simply enough. And as somebody wrote, try and try again. When you keep re-doing everything you might find yourself gonig around in circles, which is twice as frustrating. So, do what I do for most of my songs, start fresh, clean plate, re-discover the chords you've played and what they mean to you, what the song is saying without any words. Then, sing whatever comes to you. It may still be crap, but then again you might get somewhere. About 90% of the songs that I've written, the melody is made up on the spot, its usually something different and fairly original. I also like getting it straight off the bat, nice to know my song isnt a load of leftovers put together from other songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinned Alive Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 my worst songs are actually the ones which have taken longest to write. I've got plenty of songs that have no melody or no words, and they're just sitting dormant on my hard drive as instrumental recordings with no lyrics. If I eventually do manage to write something for it, then it's always a struggle and I'm never happy with the result. but my best songs just come instantly, and most of the time I'm not even setting out to write a song. I have two or three songs where I just picked up the guitar and came up with something in a few minutes - chords, melody and a few lyric ideas. After half an hour or so, I'll have a complete song written down ready to be recorded. My suggestion is... don't force it. Just sing the words you've come up with (or even just hum) along to the chords randomly as you play them and see what melody fits. If you find that the words don't really fit the melody at one point, then change the amount of syllables, maybe replace a word or two or even completely change the line. "Don't try. Once you try, you're fucked" --Thom Yorke, on songwriting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facelesslegend Posted August 25, 2004 Author Share Posted August 25, 2004 hey thanks guys, i agree skinned, in my old band i was the lead singer and writer, i didnt play guitar and in that band when i tried to come up with meoldies with vocals they would suck but when i was just feelin the music at practice id make it up right then and their and the results were pleasing most the time to the band and myself, and thats a good thom quote, i forgot he said that cause he is my biggest inspiration for music. ill just let it happen! =) u couldnt be more right, thats how the best stuff is done now that i think back to my last band, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Peedston Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Yeah, I generally agree. If you haven't gotten something you like right away, chances are you're not going to. But that said, I still find it helpful to try anyway, just for some closure. And my "try try try" mentality applies more to starting new things than trying too hard with the same thing over and over, I guess. But on a smaller scale, it is possible and even highly likely that I'll come up with things I like to add to a song weeks or even months after it's been "finished." A background vocal, a piano part, or something along those lines. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facelesslegend Posted August 25, 2004 Author Share Posted August 25, 2004 i also couldnt agree more with the last statement, i find that happens to me sometimes too but usually for me to find that magical vocal rythm usually it comes when im in the car or something and it sucks haha, but i think its goin better now that im just tryin to feel it out instead of trying to be all technical now, so the possibilities are endless and im trying to mix it up more with vcal rythms independant from the guitar rythm ill play, but yeah im ramblin on, lol sorry thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 "Don't try. Once you try, you're fucked" --Thom Yorke, on songwriting I officially love this quote, it's so true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Peedston Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 "Trying is the first step toward failure." - Homer Simpson :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facelesslegend Posted August 26, 2004 Author Share Posted August 26, 2004 hahahaha that was an awesome quote, i remember that now. awesome for posting that. i want a shirt that says that now lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valleyboy Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 Okay, ryan, reilly and tom are 100% right, but i'll give you another idea to come up with songs. So yea, this is how i do it: Let's say you're on your biology classes and your teacher is boring the hell out of you. grab a pen and your notebook and think about the most random thing and write about it. Like, start writing a song about a love story, or the modern life, or a dog called elza, or whatever you want. Come up with smart rhymes, try to write all the verses with the same number of syllables, write a catchy chorus and ta-da, you'll have great lyrics on your notebook and your biology classes will end pretty fast. So when you get home, get your guitar and start playing some chords and trying to make the lyrics fit the melody, it really isn't hard. that's how I like to do it, but then again, i'm a bassist and i'm not good at writing songs. :idea2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corner Kid Posted August 26, 2004 Share Posted August 26, 2004 i have to agree with all of you on the point that great songs can come instantly, but great songs can also turn into projects that actually make it seem like the song is writing you. This song of mine was kicking my ass for a while, I had everything down except lyrics. I knew what I wanted it to be about, but I had no idea how to express it without writing a novel. I almost decided to leave it as an instrumental. Yes, the answer did come in an instant, but this instant happened a couple months after the instant that made me write the song in the first place. So if you have a great idea, but its unfinished, dont worry if by the end of the day its still unfinished. Chances are that its not total crap, chances are that you'll eventually find that spark to help you finish it. Most of the best songwriters wont tell you that songwriting is a piece of cake and that they come up with awesome songs instantly. Ideas come instantly, yes. Dont feel the need to rush yourself if you get that spark. You might end up filling in the rest with whatever and end up being dissatisfied with the results. The key is to just not stress over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gas_Man Posted August 27, 2004 Share Posted August 27, 2004 i agree with pretty much everything there...for the past 8 months, there has not been three days in a row that i've not tried to record something, usually everyday at some point i do. i don't think it matters too much as to what mood you're in when you come up with a good idea either. Often i go to my piano or guitar very bored and just wanting to waste a few minutes, but i'll come up with the best idea i've had in Ages.., other times i specifically go to sit down and think of something to record, and nothing comes for so so long. But i usually find, if i sit and just play, then normally something comes worthy of recording and wanting to keep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facelesslegend Posted August 27, 2004 Author Share Posted August 27, 2004 man all great advice, actually in the past week since u guys replied its weird, i have these 3 songs, just chords but i was trying to focus on one, and sometimes it will just hit me but then ill lose it in seconds, its so frustrating, but i keep tryin, i just try and play the chords again and again, and just try to feel it and get into that zone, its tough tho cause im not great and singing and playing at the same time since i havent been playing guitar long but ive been singing my whole life, so i guess ill have to keep at it and hopefully it will fall into place with time and patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corner Kid Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 yeah, thats all it takes, persistance. Just keep at it if you love doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycdplayerisbroke Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 little nemo i haven't seen you around in a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facelesslegend Posted August 28, 2004 Author Share Posted August 28, 2004 yeah i love doin it, its just frustrating when u feel like ur failing but i know its times like that when u get better, i wonder what chris martin does for writing songs or thom yorke? im sure its diff. everytime =) thank God for inspirations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DavidG Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 I've found that, songs that I have really tried hard to concentrate on, you know, really like forcefully bring out emotion on, has always ended up sounding cheesy. I think for me, the main key for writing good music, is actually more like enjoying it rather than trying desperately to make something if you know what i mean :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facelesslegend Posted August 28, 2004 Author Share Posted August 28, 2004 totally agree with you, thats why i think whats workin for me is to play the chords or whatever and zone out to it and just start singing. usually good things happen then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DavidG Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 totally agree with you' date=' thats why i think whats workin for me is to play the chords or whatever and zone out to it and just start singing. usually good things happen then.[/quote'] yeah for sure......even works on the piano...that way its better too cos if you end up wanting a linking part in between, you dont have to worry about how your lyrics fit :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corner Kid Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 little nemo i haven't seen you around in a while yeah, I disappeared for a bit.. dunno why... just felt like a break from the internet all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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