Vegetarian's Conscience

[busybeeburns]

they were delicious if I may just add that comment :stunned:

[Raine]

okay look, you made good points, but all vegetarians arent really like that. Im a christian and i know animals have no soul and they were put here for that purpose. I have nothing against those who eat meat. I just choose not to because the act of actually biting into another animals flesh..ripping it with my teeth, disgusts me. It was hard for me to not think about it when doing so..

 

when i actually sat down and thought about it, i realized i was eating another animals legs, or chest or back....or what ever it was, i just couldnt do it ne more. I dontlike the way the animals are treated, in many cases, granted not all, but many cases where they are literally abused. The ideas of wearing an animal or sitting on an animal makes me cringe. In some cases i can see tht it may be neccessary, but killing a mink or a bear just have has n accessory or as a floor mat is not.

 

Caring may seem pointless to some like you have explained, but being the person i am i feel compassion and love for all living things, its something god created therefore i have an obligation to care for it. So, we all have our different reasons for it..its best to look at the choice from all points of view than just 1

 

Whew! thank goodness thats over! :P

[*Justine*]

I had two pepporonni slices of pizza today.

[Raine]

:o lol

[Matter-Eater Lad]

Y'know, 3 sausages, needs a vagina, y'know...

 

Me and my mind :wacko:

 

you crazy kidder, you. :lol:

[Ireentje]

No. I don't know if I'm an exception' date=' but it wasn't difficult for me. The only difficult thing for me was having to get all the pieces of bacon out of my meals, and stuff. And getting people to understand why the hell I wasn't eating meat anymore.[/quote']

 

Well thats fair enough if you had no problem, most people do though (have meat 'cravings' and things like that).

 

But I dont exactly understand why you dont eat meat, or anyone for that matter. Does it taste better, or feel better on your conscience?

 

And if we didnt eat pigs, they'd be absolutely useless.

 

So we should just eat them?

And by the way, could you point out the use of human beings?[/b]

 

Human beings are figuring out what the earth, science, everything is all about, they are leaving legacies and informing future generations. They have histories, they fall in love, they think.

 

Pigs dont, they are animals. If you think animals are the same as humans, then I dont know what to say.

 

Animals have no reasoning behind doing anything. They have sex with whoever they find, they eat their own children, from that to even, just wandering off, they have no reason to even be on this earth and the fact they live at all is pointless.... eeeeexcept for of course, keeping food cycles going and stuff like that. Do they even know they are doing it? No.

 

Thats the real reason I dont understand you being a vegetarian: from what I read in this topic its like you think animals are the same as humans in terms of thinking and feeling, except they are in animal form. They are monsters, if anything at all.

 

Animals indeed have another reasoning behind their doings, their main drive is their instinct. However, I don't think you are correct when you state that human beings are useful just because they think. Thinking doesn't make you useful. Neither does leaving legacies to your own kind, exploring the world in which you live, or falling in love. What you are proving is that human beings are useful to other human beings. This earth has done without humans for millions of years. If this planet would have existed twenty-four hours up to this moment, the human being would have come in at 0,00003 seconds before twelve pm.

And I don't think animals are the same as humans: it's the other way around. We humans are not only the same as animals, we are animals, and nothing more. The fact that we have more sophisticated ways of communicating and more complicated brain masses than pigs, doesn't make us either more useful or better than them.

You say that animals don't think or feel.

First of all: animals feel pain like us, that is a fact you can't deny: it has been proven over and over again by scientists. Animals feel fear like us. A pig will scream and squeal when it is about to be slaughtered. Elephants feel grief: they will visit the skull and bones of deceased family members for the rest of their lives. They feel anger, they have better memories than we have: a boy that taunts an elephant can expect the elephant to attack him on a second meeting, even if that occurs thirty years later. These are actions that do not come forth from instinct, or a need to survive. Every action that does not come forth from instinct, comes forth from something else: thought. Animals can consider their actions, some more than others. Animals can feel: they have pain, fear, anger. The fact that their thoughts and feelings might be less complicated than "ours", the human being's, does not give us the right to dominate them, or kill them at random and at will, just because we like to eat meat. If you see how our world is slowly being destroyed by cars, toxic waste, factories, wars, whale hunters, lumberjacks, and you can still say in all honestly that we are useful to this planet, than there is something wrong in your reasoning. If you see how the rich and fortunate part of our species maltreats and neglects the other part, the poor and needy, and you can say that we have more feeling than animals, then there is something wrong with your reasoning. Animals take care of each other. They will sometimes kill a member of their own species, but only for their own survival. I give you the Second World War. One human being, causing the death of millions of people, out of pure spite.

And you say humans are better than animals.

The human being is the most arrogant animal that exists today. We destroy our own world and the species that live on it, and still think we are the next best thing.

 

Eventually, maybe in a thousand years, maybe in ten thousand years, maybe in a hundred thousand, this will be the end of the human race, or this planet.

Whatever comes first.

[colduser]

Wow Irene. What a wonderfully well thought out response. I could not agree with you more. I generally don't enter these types of debates, but you have said more than I could have added to this. Thank you.

[Ireentje]

You're welcome :nice:

[Reilly]

Animals indeed have another reasoning behind their doings, their main drive is their instinct. However, I don't think you are correct when you state that human beings are useful just because they think. Thinking doesn't make you useful. Neither does leaving legacies to your own kind, exploring the world in which you live, or falling in love. What you are proving is that human beings are useful to other human beings. This earth has done without humans for millions of years. If this planet would have existed twenty-four hours up to this moment, the human being would have come in at 0,00003 seconds before twelve pm.

 

Well you didnt state: whats wrong with humans being useful to other beings? I dont re-call any pigs or goats thinking of cures for keeping other pigs and goats alive. Scientists invent cancer treatments, to give people a chance all over the world. Do animals do this?

 

Even if you think humans should be considered useless for only being useful to other humans, animals are 10 times more useless for giving no help or aid to anyone but themselves. And of course humans take care of a lot of animals, which you can see as a use. Yes, I know they kill and mis-treat animals too, but that doesnt take away how useful humans are, and how we are much more civilised and caring then animals will ever be.

 

If animals were in charge of our fate, we'd all be dead. All of us.

 

I never said that humans are responsible for keeping the world turning either, and I am aware of how late they have come into existance. But take into account the difference that they have made to the world, for example, life expectancy going from 16 to 70 in the last 3 thousand years, among advances in technology, etc. etc. Without humans before us, we wouldnt have a clue how the world is working, how to cure common illnesses, and I really dont know how you can debate the usefullness of humans in comparison with animals.

 

And if anything, telling me how animals have been around so much longer then humans just proves that animals will never be smart enough to evolutionise into something better. Humans have done this in a much shorter time.

 

And I don't think animals are the same as humans: it's the other way around. We humans are not only the same as animals, we are animals, and nothing more. The fact that we have more sophisticated ways of communicating and more complicated brain masses than pigs, doesn't make us either more useful or better than them.

You say that animals don't think or feel.

 

Woooooooooaaah stop right there, I feel my words are getting twisted. First Im apparently saying the world couldnt exist without humans, and now Im saying animals dont think or feel? I said that animals dont think or feel in the sophisticated way that humans do.

 

First of all: animals feel pain like us, that is a fact you can't deny: it has been proven over and over again by scientists. Animals feel fear like us. A pig will scream and squeal when it is about to be slaughtered. Elephants feel grief: they will visit the skull and bones of deceased family members for the rest of their lives. They feel anger, they have better memories than we have: a boy that taunts an elephant can expect the elephant to attack him on a second meeting, even if that occurs thirty years later. These are actions that do not come forth from instinct, or a need to survive. Every action that does not come forth from instinct, comes forth from something else: thought. Animals can consider their actions, some more than others. Animals can feel: they have pain, fear, anger. The fact that their thoughts and feelings might be less complicated than "ours", the human being's, does not give us the right to dominate them, or kill them at random and at will, just because we like to eat meat.

 

The majority of animals are attacking creatures. They attack without though or feeling, probably from feeling slightly scared, they will act on it. Like I said, if our existance was up to them, they would be a lot more cruel and more consistently.

 

If you see how our world is slowly being destroyed by cars, toxic waste, factories, wars, whale hunters, lumberjacks, and you can still say in all honestly that we are useful to this planet, than there is something wrong in your reasoning. If you see how the rich and fortunate part of our species maltreats and neglects the other part, the poor and needy, and you can say that we have more feeling than animals, then there is something wrong with your reasoning. Animals take care of each other. They will sometimes kill a member of their own species, but only for their own survival. I give you the Second World War. One human being, causing the death of millions of people, out of pure spite.

And you say humans are better than animals.

The human being is the most arrogant animal that exists today. We destroy our own world and the species that live on it, and still think we are the next best thing.

 

I really do think its unfair you blame some hatefilled and sick and twisted people's actions and base it upon the rest of the human race.

 

Rich and fortunate people DO maltreat the poor people, but if it came to the animal kingdom, the lower form of species die. Animals do fight for sport, for dominance, you cant compare a rich person's snobby attitude to a poor person, with a dog killing a fox for kicks.

 

It is your opinion if you think there is something wrong with my reasoning, but I'd rather live in a developed and complex world where things actually HAPPEN (from 99% of good things to 1% of bad- such as wars and polution) in comparison with life as an animal, which is absolutely pointless.

 

Animals are blissfully ignorant, they dont have the power of information or the desire to find it. If they got a glimpse of our world, they'd all be commiting suicide from painful boredom.

 

In closing, and getting back on track, the good that humans have brought this world clearly outweighs the bad. Natural disasters that are beyond anything our minds can comprehend will end or re-start this world's civilisation

[Ireentje]

Natural disaster, probably in it's basics caused by human action.